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[rlmartindale]

...indeed...ASR sez the DAC in my Denon 3500H is "lousy"...nice, huh...but, they also say the analog connections do not go through the DAC and the amp sections are very good.....

So, now, what to do...I set up a sound card to output a nice clean signal for the analog outputs...but that won't be surround when its needed...for that a DAC is needed.....the receiver input setup can be used to create a "stereo" media server input using the analog inputs and, when its needed, also create a "surround" media server input for movies and surround music using HDMI..... 

Easy enough.....and there is configuration in JRiver to send the sound for various files to either the sound card or to HDMI...learning what "zones' are for....

I considered just going simple and letting JRiver take care of everything but that would mean everything goes through the "lousy" Denon receiver DAC.....when my ship comes in...i will buy a better receiver....until then.....

[craigmcg]

When I check the specs for your Denon 3500H it says that there is no multi-channel RCA input section so I don't think that you'll be able to use a multi-channel DAC (most of which are quite pricey now that the Topping DM7 has been discontinued).

You could use zones in MC33 so one zone would send to a stereo DAC (a USB DAC typically produces beter analog audio than a sound card and there are some great bang for buck stereo USB DACs available) to the Denon while a second zone would send through the HDMI to the Denon.

I too have very little experience with zones but you could manually switch zones whenever you were switching from audio/stereo files to video/multi-channel files until one of the experts tells you or you find an easy/feasible way to have MC33 automatically switch zones based on the file type/number of channels/etc.

[mwillems]

I too have very little experience with zones but you could manually switch zones whenever you were switching from audio/stereo files to video/multi-channel files until one of the experts tells you or you find an easy/feasible way to have MC33 automatically switch zones based on the file type/number of channels/etc.

So this is what zoneswitch is for.  You can setup rules to automatically switch between two or more zones based on any criteria you can think of including channel count.  The only limitation is that the switching only happens when you start playback, not during playback, which is fine for many use cases (i.e. if all your music is in stereo and you only use surround for movies, or if you're primarily an album listener).  However, if you have multi-channel music and like to listen to mixed playlists zoneswitch might come up short for you, but otherwise it's a very good solution to this exact problem.

[Richard Martin]

Do you agree with ASR that the DAC is lousy?

[mwillems]

Do you agree with ASR that the DAC is lousy?

It's usually helpful to link the forums or discussions you're asking about as not everyone might know what you're talking about.  Is this the review you mean? 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3500h-avr-review.10053/

If so, then those DAC measurements are pretty poor, in fact, among the worst measured on ASR.  That said, a THD+N of 0.02% would be middle of the pack for an amp (which are generally noisier than DACs), it's just very poor for a DAC.  Most modern DACs, even fairly cheap ones, have much better distortion specs. 

But while the Denon DAC's distortion specs are not very good for a DAC, they may not be audible in any case.  I haven't seen reputable listening tests showing that distortion in the hundredths of a percent is reliably audible, although I'll offer some caveats:

1) Distortion is additive at every stage, so that DAC distortion is being added to the amp distortion and the speaker distortion, etc.  So while the DAC distortion may not be audible by itself, its contribution may push the total system noise up into more audible territory.

2) The ASR thread notes that the DAC had much higher distortion and was clipping at maximum output.  That's poor design, and anyone using the Denon will want to make sure that they're keeping the DAC volume low enough to avoid that kind of issue which could produce much louder and more noticeable distortion.  How loud is too loud?  Great question, and anyone using the DAC will be wondering that too unless they measure the system themselves.

TL;DR-- The DAC is not a very well-designed DAC, but one might or might not notice the ways in which it's bad especially if you're listening at lower volumes.  If I were OP, I would probably be looking for a different DAC for stereo listening at least, because there are many much nicer stereo DACs available for cheap.  To put it in perspective, the $15 Apple plug in DAC that's intended to let people use older headphones with newer iPhones is a nicer DAC (THD of 0.001%) than the one in the Denon (THD of .02%):  https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/

[Richard Martin]

It's usually helpful to link the forums or discussions you're asking about as not everyone might know what you're talking about.  Is this the review you mean? 

It was a reply to the OP's opening sentence, but I agree with you, it would have been clearer if I had quoted the post

[rlmartindale]

Thank you all...very informative....now, when the ship comes in and a new receiver has a "great" DAC.....can JRiver do all the thinking, set up as a 7.1, told to mix stereo only to 2.1....no subwoofer channel...that's all done with a crossover after the receiver....

...in other words, once the receiver DAC is upgraded, can JRiver be counted on to really deliver quality 2 channel sound through a DAC without bitstreaming, as recommended?  Audio would go with WASAPI not direct sound....

No zones needed then, yes?

thanks again!

[rlmartindale]

.....no joy w the Apple adapter using WIN 11 (it worked on the Mac) but this little gem sounds great....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CTJFLDWN

...it is hard to imagine a DAC "sounding" better than this...it felt transparent in every way....

....so, its installed and zones are made and some very good music is being enjoyed....

[mwillems]

.....no joy w the Apple adapter using WIN 11 (it worked on the Mac) but this little gem sounds great....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CTJFLDWN

...it is hard to imagine a DAC "sounding" better than this...it felt transparent in every way....

....so, its installed and zones are made and some very good music is being enjoyed....

I love it when a plan comes together