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[datdude]

I think this will be a discussion for Hendrik...

I'm possibly looking to upgrade both my TV and PC and I ended down a rabbit hole looking at HDMI specs and stumbled upon SBTM: https://displaydaily.com/what-is-source-based-tone-mapping/

Seems like it could be a very useful feature for JRVR given that it can custom tone map before sending signal to TV. If I'm going to get new hardware, I might as well make sure I'm getting the latest greatest features.

Does JRVR take advantage of this feature if the TV and PC's graphics card support it? i.e. does it take the TV's specs and then custom tone map to the TV's specs and tell the TV to then not perform any tone mapping since it was done at the source?

If not currently, is that a planned feature in the future?

How much of a noticeable difference would it make?

Is there a way of knowing for sure if this is actively working or not?

Since the HDMI spec is a hot mess in terms of determining whether or not a particular TV and source box actually support some or all of the features in HDMI 2.1, since manufacturers only need to support 1 of the features in the spec to legally market being HDMI 2.1(apparently), I'm wondering if it's even worth pursuing this feature as I look for new hardware.

For example, I have an LG C1 TV currently, but there is zero information online about whether it supports SBTM other than speculation, years ago, about firmware updates that could have been added in the future. Looking at the PC graphics card side of things, there is zero information about SBTM for Nvidia graphics cards, for example. Other than asking customer service to ask their engineers if its supported (and that might not be possible/trusted either), there's really know way of knowing.

Thanks!

[mattkhan]

If TV companies don't even advertise it in any way shape or form then that's a strong signal the feature is irrelevant!

The description of sbtm is basically HDR to HDR tone mapping which jrvr already supports though

[datdude]

True.  But is JRVR tone mapping to the TV’s specs or just what we tell it in the settings, and is our TV continuing to tone map after the fact? Seems like that could impact the picture quality.

While manufacturers might not advertise that feature, it doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t bake it in especially since it’s just software controlled.

[mattkhan]

To your settings and yes it will (if there's anything to do that is and you're sending HDR)

Manufacturers advertise all sorts of meaningless nonsense so the probability of them not advertising something that does actually matter seems v slim

[datdude]

Apparently some AVRs have added it in as part of firmware updates, like Onkyo, so it seems like an interesting feature with some potential especially for HTPC to be able to fully control the HDR process.

[EnglishTiger]

When it comes to getting the latest and greatest features in any future purchases you may want to wait for a couple of years because yesterday the Specs for HDMI 2.2 were published/released  and it will probably take the relevant device manufacturers a couple of years to introduce HDMI 2.2 Capability in their products.

[mattkhan]

Sbtm was announced 3yrs ago, plenty of time for adoption to be widespread by now

[datdude]

Doesn't have to be. A lot of what JRVR does isn't wide spread. Very niche. But it allows enthusiasts to get the top 1% of picture quality for home theater. My questions are still valid. If it improves the HDR process and overall picture quality could be a good idea. Wondering what Hendrik thinks.

Plus I have a feeling it may be in more hardware than we think, its just not advertised as such. It looks like Sony has implemented it in some of their Bravia TVs. It looks like it took 3 years from the time HDMI 2.1 was released (2017) for the first TVs in 2020 to support it. Also read that the consoles worked with the HDMI organization to create SBTM so once the next generations come out they likely will support it since the current consoles came out before that spec.

[mattkhan]

I wasn't saying it's not valid, just that it's not new part of 2.2 (which seemed to be the suggestion of previous post)

It does need to be pretty widespread though as Microsoft/Nvidia (and/or AMD/intel) need to support it