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[Matt]

When looking for music and images to play, I don't really like switching from the tree to change how I'm looking at stuff to the panes to actually browse.

What if the first pane just had a configurable list of view schemes.  After choosing one, the other panes would change based on that selection.  Maybe the view scheme pane could support nesting so you could put advanced views in subfolders.

This provides a treeless Media Library that requires less eye / mouse movement to use than the current system.  It's also more consistent than the previous white board proposal since it's just another pane instead of comboboxes stacked on top of the current system. (and comboboxes don't allow one-click access to items)

Any thoughts or advice?  Thanks.

[DougHamm]

Great idea Matt - I personally only use the tree because I have to in order to toggle between playlists, media library, playing now, etc.  And I never use the DVD or tuner features.  I'd much rather have the option to put Playlists, Playing Now, Media Library, and My Computer in a configurable pane.

On that note, if you give one more reason for people to dump the tree, you'll have to account for the location of the Action Pane when it's set to display internal.  I suppose if nothing else, perhaps there could be a toggle to make the Action Pane take up the entire left-hand frame?

-Doug

[sraymond]

Media Library Idea
« on: November 07, 2003, 10:46:53 PM »

Matt,

Don't you ever stop working?

Sounds like a neat idea.  Does this mean that v10 is around the corner?

Scott-

[Doof]

Would that take away space from the items we have in panes now?

Anyway you could post a mock up of what you mean? I'm not sure I follow...

[marketability]

Great idea - How about beiung able to "toggle" the space used to display the tree between tree mode and pane mode?

You could then keep the actions panel visible

Maybe add another panel for favourites?

[jleerigby]

This is a great idea.  I too only use the tree to switch between view schemes and I never use Start, Find CD, My Computer, TV Tuner and Web Media.  I rarely use Artist Info, CD/DVD and Handhelds and Plug Ins.  It would be great to be able to turn the tree off and use a Pane that just has the nodes I use regularly.

In order to access the tree items that I do use but only rarely I would either need to a) turn the tree back on or b) open up a scheme in this new pane that shows these nodes in the next pane.  I think a) would be simpler especially if it can be accessed quickly (toolbar or keyboard shortcut) and easily with remote (mjextman).

Maybe the view scheme pane could support nesting so you could put advanced views in subfolders.

This would be really important to me.  I use view scheme groups in a big way to keep the top level neat and tidy and make hairstyle easier to use.  e.g.:

Albums>
             Single artist
             Various artist
             Favourite albums
             New albums>
                                  Last 3 months
                                  Last 3 weeks
                                  Today
             NOW! albums
             Rock albums

I would hate to lose the ability to do this as it's what makes MC so great at managing your music and it makes hairstyle usable.

[Jaguu]

What about using tabs for Music, Images, Video, TV, Radio, Playlists, CD&DVD instead of the tree?

[gpvillamil]

And allow multiple windows, each with their own set of panes.

Typical scenario: I want to review the list of soundtracks, and add the science fiction soundtracks to a playlist called "Science Fiction", but I forgot which ones I've added already.

So I want to have one window set to display Soundtrack=Genre, and another set to display Playlist=Science Fiction, with the rightmost pane in each displaying *albums*, then I can drag and drop any albums from the first window into the second.

Right now, if I want to see *albums* in my Science Fiction playlist, I do it by setting a search to [Playlist]=[Science Fiction], but when I switch to a view showing [Genre]=[Soundtrack], I lose this view!

[Matt]

To start with, I'm not really saying we should get rid of the tree.  It'd be too big of a change now.

Just proposing a possible way to streamline browsing in Media Library.  My only concern is that it'd make the right view look more cluttered since there'd be an extra pane.  Auto-sizing and skin tuning might help there though.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

[jleerigby]

To start with, I'm not really saying we should get rid of the tree.  It'd be too big of a change now.

Just proposing a possible way to streamline browsing in Media Library.  My only concern is that it'd make the right view look more cluttered since there'd be an extra pane.  Auto-sizing and skin tuning might help there though.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

So you're suggesting we keep the tree (for now at least) and have an extra left hand pane that we can use to navigate through view schemes (incl groups) and playlists.  I'm not sure how useful that would be.  I guess it would make navigation of the music library a little easier.  Especially with a remote as I would be able to avoid going up and down the tree which is a problem when I go past 'Find Cd' and 'Artist Info' as it tries to start my dial up connection.

If you introduce Auto sizing of the panes I hope that will include manual sizing too.  Otherwise we could get some strange results e.g. if there's the occassional very long album name floating about.

[kiwi]

Just a thought.  If you were to make the tree go bye bye... or at least have the option of easily navigating with it hidden, you could have the "Action window" take up some of the space beside the track listing, and have the panes just go right across it.


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Don't know how that'll come out on everyone's systems.

kiwi

[jleerigby]

Yes, that's what I'd ultimately like to see Kiwi but Matt says it's too big a job for now.

[rocketsauce]

What if the first pane just had a configurable list of view schemes.

I'm not really sure that I understand how this would be that much different than how things are now. I have a list of configurable view schemes in the tree pane and when I click on one, the panes to the right change based on my selection.

Any any event, like Doof mentioned, my concern would be that this would take away from the space where the panes already are, making it even more crowded. Most of my view schemes have at least 3 panes configured. So, this sounds like it would be forcing another pane into that space.

I kind of like Jaguu's suggestion of putting tabs at the top of the area where the tree is and making items like TV, Radio, CD&DVD available as tabs instead of nodes in the tree. Then simplify things so that tree nodes are done away with and view schemes, playlists and smartlists can all appear together in the same list on the library tab. Then, instead of making a music only version of MC, you could make it so users could just choose which tabs are shown.

Rob  

[nila]

I'm not too sure what you mean either Matt,
as someone suggested - a mock picture would REALLY help explain it - doesn't have to be any graphic masterpiece - just a mspaint style picture even would really help elaborate.


I REALLY like the sounds of resizeable panes although I LIKE having the tree - it makes it VERY easy for me to explain to beginners and other people using my system how to change between views, files to see etc - mixing it all together too much makes it harder to explain and harder to understand to begin with.


Also - if you dont plan to get rid of the tree (which I like) then I really am confused.


I WOULD like to see Playlists, Radio, TV Channels etc all mixed into 'Media Library' though as just extra view schemes - put it all in one place that can be mixed as much as the user wants with a default basic scheme - REALLY give ultimate power but in a straightforward basic setup.

Being able to mix Playlists into view schemes would give what people have asked for before - Virtual Albums to create compilations but mixed into their view schemes as normal albums.


But yeah - a mock up picture would REALLY help explain what you mean.

[phelt]

Tabs are good. Tabs which are also dropdown menus are very good.

[NoCodeUK]

Just to add my 2c.  I think most of the reasons suggested above a re true.  If this is added as an extra pane I cannot see that it is really improving the viewing.  It is just cutting down on the space already given over to the panes and on my 1024*768 display that is already quite limited  I don't think this needs to replace the tree but maybe the tree could be redesigned to make it easier to use.  The tabs idea is nice but I guess it would be a lot of work.  However this would give the possibility of seperate tabs for the separate areas, each area having its own tree, making the trees simpler to navigate than they are now...here is a crappy ascii representation of what I mean - I would imagine the tabs across the top being Audio/Images/Video/CD/DVD/TV.  Relevant playlists could be part of their specific feature set as suggested by Nila.  Each area could have the generic tabs at the root level eg Home>Artist Info etc and plugins below the view schemes...unless plugins were added to the action window....

Audio views

|0|*|*|*|
|Artist/Album
|Genre

etc...

Image Views

|*|0|*|*|
|People/Places/Events
|
etc...

so each tab shows a specific tree for that function...

Just an idea...ultimately anything that make sviewing easier and allows to get to the media quicker has to be a bonus.

Adam

EDIT:  Just spotted Jims post about the current agenda and no big changes.  Fully understand Know what's like to have to change things to fit in with above  So ignore this for now... MC 10 possibly??

[rocketsauce]

After rereading Matt's original post, I'm still not sure exactly what the problem with the tree is that he was trying to describe. I just threw in my opinion since he asked and the stuff about the tabs since Jaguu mentioned them.

Personally, the current interface is fine for me, and to be honest, I can take the panes or leave them. They haven't really had much of an effect one way or the other on my MC user experience.

The only UI issue I have with 9.1 is that tagging (via File Properties in the Action Window) is somehow more unwieldy than it was in 9.0. I know there is Tagging Mode, but I don't use it too often because I always manage to muck up files that I had no intention of tagging.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Rob

[jleerigby]

I think Matt's looking for a quick win that will improve navigation through view schemes.  Typically we navigate through the panes to narrow down the selection.  I think Matt's point is that the earlier step of selecting the actual view scheme should just be part of narrowing down the selection i.e. this should be done in the panes too.  If this is what you mean Matt I agree wholeheartedly but for it to work you need to free up some space on the left.  

If it's too much work to provide a 'toggle tree on/off' button the only quick and dirty solution I can think of would be to allow the vertical splitter bar the freedom to move to the far left, thereby hiding the tree and the AW.  Though this would be quick and dirty I would still find this really useful because when just playing back music (and navigating with remote) you really do not need the tree or the AW - it's just wasted space.  This way you'd just see the panes and the file list - great for picking out your selection with a remote.

Even with the AW hidden in this way you could probably still display it by putting it in Windowed mode and hitting Alt+Enter.

How does this sound.

[bjsolem]

I really like the how this idea sounds but I can't picture it very well.

More Panes the better as far as I'm concerned.

The only thing that I'm afraid of is if the My Computer access would go away or get lost in the new layout.  I'm finding it handy to be able to fully access all of my pc through the tree and I can't picture how this would fit in to the new scheme.

A mockup picture would be great, you can put all the disclaimers you want in stating that it's just an idea etc...

[nila]

Hmm - if that's what it means (simpler tree with the view schemes instead moved to an extra pane) then I DONT like it.

All my view schemes etc have specific search criteria per tree, customised view schemes (columns etc) and it's nice to have them clearly seperated.

Mixing them too much would just make it alot more confusing than it needs to be.

Again - some kind of picture would help clarify the matter so we all know exactly what you mean though.

[kiwi]

One comment that I would like to make is that there really should be a Simple and Advanced interface option.  Or at least default settings.  There are tons of options that confuse beginners.  In addition, people who want to set the system up for a dedicated front end player might want to have a simplified/cleaner interface. (i.e. someone who uses a different machine to input the songs and/or edit tags.)

kiwi

[KingSparta]

When looking for music and images to play

I don't Like Needing to type in what i am searching for everytime i change areas

Can't you make it remember? maybe in a drop down Combo that remembers my last so many searches.

[kiwi]

Another thing that would be nice is having an option not to clear all selection in pane's to the right if you change a pane on the left and the selected item on the right still exists.

kiwi

[JimH]

When looking for music and images to play

I don't Like Needing to type in what i am searching for everytime i change areas

Can't you make it remember? maybe in a drop down Combo that remembers my last so many searches.

Have you tried writing notes on the back of your hand?  I find that a ballpoint pen works best.  Use a laundry pen for important stuff.

[kiwi]

Have you tried writing notes on the back of your hand?  I find that a ballpoint pen works best.  Use a laundry pen for important stuff.

I find rollerballs are the best.  They go on a bit smoother, and if you get the slighly nicer versions, i.e. uniball delux, they are quite often waterproof (or at least reasonably water resistant).  

They smudge right off, but I actually find that as long as you don't touch them right away, they will dry quicker and not smudge as much as ball point pens do.

kiwi

[jleerigby]

You know when Jim and Sparta get round to this that the thread has run it's course and has no chance of ever getting back on topic.  I'll give it 2 most posts before Yugo's are mentioned....

[Robert Taylor]

How about a large blank area (the "canvas") on which you can drag and dock windowlets in whatever form you wish? (maybe this would need and "edit" and a "locked" mode - ie you go in and design your layout, save it, and then lock it, so it doesn't get messed up inadvertantly, or by some numpty mate driving MC while slightly tipsy...)

You could have a seperate savable layout for music, images, video etc etc...which could be selected by a dockable windowlet containing a tabbed interface...

I'm not a programmer, so this could be completely impossible, but if it could be done, so that everyone could layout stuff exactly as they wished, it would sure quieten down a lot of people!!

[Tolga]

Matt,

I think it is a very good idea. I open the trees less and less frequenty and this would help a lot.

There are many ways to make more space in the filters pane. (which is needed, if we want it to replace the tree).1) Multiple filters on the same column. (i.e. for few entry filters such as rating). 2) Resizeable columns. (manual is a must, auto is optional).

An easy MUST ADD is tooltips for filter values. One major reason why I still use the tree sometimes is because I can see there the whole entries.

I would take the internal action window inside the lower (output) pane (i.e. left corner of it). Because as someone mentioned above, it is one of the major reasons to open left pane.

[MachineHead]

Was gonna mention tabs. But I see that has already been suggested. Option of ctrl-click to select multiple tabs would be useful, for me.

[KingSparta]

Have you tried writing notes on the back of your hand?

not latley i am sure the results are a mess like it has been in the past, normaly i got the ink on my white shirt.

[KingSparta]

You know when Jim and Sparta get round to this that the thread has run it's course and has no chance of ever getting back on topic.

LMAO

So True