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[paulr]

For a while now, I have been noticing that sometimes, during playback of APE files, the audio starts crackling and breaking up.  Hitting pause and then play usually fixes it, but I have not been able to figure out what is causing it.  It happens almost randomly, and seems more frequent lately.

Anyone know how to fix this?

Media Center Registered 10.0.111 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
AMD Athlon 2181 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 586 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1400 / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1233 (xpsp2.030604-1804) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: N/A

Ripping /   Drive Y:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive Z:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive Y: YAMAHA   CRW-F1E            Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:40  MaxSpeed:44  BurnProof:Yes
  Drive Z: Memorex  DVD+/-RW Dual-X1   Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:5  MaxSpeed:5  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: No /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[GHammer]

I read this and listened to a few CDs in APE format here with no problem.

I tried both complete CDs from APE files and selections from CDs via APL files.

Doesn't mean it is not a problem for you of course, just that someone else doesn't have the same results.

[JimH]

Try updating your sound card drivers.

Try a search here or on google for "via chipset".  

There are many possible sources of playback problems.

It's extremely unlikely that it is either APE or MC.

[paulr]

My drivers are the latest versions as of about 3 weeks ago.  I'll look again, but I don't think that could be it.  Also, I don't have a Via chipset.  I am currently using an MSI board with the nForce chipset.

I've had nothing but trouble with Via chipset motherboards in the past and avoid them like the plague now.

[JimH]

Are you playing from a hard disk or from a CD?

[paulr]

I am playing from a partition that is devoted to only MC music files.  It's strange, but it seems that when I am typing here in this forum (inside MC), it happens more freuqently.

[paulr]

Well, I am not 100% sure, but I think I figured out what was happening.

The problem hasn't manifested itself tonight, but last night it was terrible.  The only difference I can think of is that I had had MC open for many hours, during which I surfed the MC website from within MC.

I ran a test tonight and watched MC's memory footprint in Windows Task Manager.  The more webpages I opened in MC, and the more back/forward/reply/etc. I did, the bigger MC got.  If I didn't use the browser, MC stayed fairly small.

So, for now, I am blaming it on IE.

Hmm - as I just typed that last line above, it started sputtering.  From now on, I'll avoid using the browser in MC and see if that helps.

[paulr]

Okay, some new information... This one's a headscratcher.

The sputtering problem has not gone away.  Originally I thought IE was the culprit, but now that I have been avoiding its use, I am still having the problem.

The reason I thought it must have been the APE files is that 98% of my library is APE and it just so happened that I only heard it during APE playback, but it affects MP3s as well.  So, I can probably safely assume it will affect any audio file I play through MC.

The only thing that any of these occurances have in common is that I happen to be *typing* when it occurs.  It never occurs unless I am typing.  It only occurs with MC (not Winamp).  And, I don't have to be typing inside MC, it can be in Excel, Outlook... whatever.

My keyboard is a Microsoft Internet Keyboard with *zero* multimedia functionality on it.  It uses the standard PS/2 connector.  I checked all through the hardware manager for any potential conflicts in memory or IRQ and couldn't find any.

Does anyone have any suggestions?  Could it be the keyboard that's causing it, or is it more likely a BIOS problem?  I have never heard of this happening before, and am quite astonished that a simple thing like typing can corrupt the audio in MC.

Any help is appreciated!
=======================================================
Media Center Registered 10.0.113 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
AMD Athlon 2181 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 324 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1400 / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1233 (xpsp2.030604-1804) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: N/A

Ripping /   Drive Y: YAMAHA  CRW-F1E           Mode:ModeSecure  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive Z:   Mode:ModeSecure  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: Yes /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive Y: YAMAHA   CRW-F1E            Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:44  MaxSpeed:44  BurnProof:Yes
  Drive Z: Memorex  DVD+/-RW Dual-X1   Addr: 1:1:0  Speed:5  MaxSpeed:5  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: No /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

[xen-uno]

Have you tried adjusting the playback buffer?...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=20589;start=msg143980#msg143980

[hit_ny]

i would suggest a defrag, any time i have problems with sputtering/buffering, a defrag clears things up.

[Matt]

I used to get this with my M-Audio card.

It was an IRQ sharing problem.  The only fix I found was to disable ACPI to get rid of Windows IRQ steering.  That has some other bad side effects though.

Switching to a USB keyboard might help in your case.  Updating the drivers and bios might help as well.

In the end, I ended up switching soundcards because I couldn't get rid of it.  Hopefully you'll have better luck.

[paulr]

Well, I always keep my drivers and BIOS up to date.  And I run defrag on schedule (each drive gets a defrag once a week).

ACPI?  What a pain..  I've had trouble with ACPI in the past and if I remember correctly, the only way to get rid of it is to do a Windows "repair" and hit a function key during install and select 'standard install' or something.  I did check for any shared IRQ's and the keyboard isn't sharing one (IRQ 1).

I guess I'll do some digging around on MS' knowledge base and see if I can find anything there.  Lacking any fixes there, I may go get a new keyboard.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

[paulr]

Okay... No help found on MS' website...  No suprise there.

But, I have a question about my setup and IRQ sharing.

This may seem strange, but here is how I currently have my system setup:
- nForce2 on-board audio does most of the work
- nForce connected to SB Extigy via a Toslink using ASIO (Extigy does the D/A conversion and drives my speakers)... I may change this if I need to, but I kind of like it (lets me plug in my headphones when I want, and gives me another external volume control).

Now, looking at the IRQ's my devices use, I find this:
- Keyboard using IRQ (ISA) 1

- NVIDIA(R) nForce(TM) Audio Codec Interface IRQ (PCI) 20
- Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller IRQ (PCI) 20

- NVIDIA(R) nForce(TM) MCP Audio Processing Unit (Dolby(R) Digital) IRQ (PCI) 22
- Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller IRQ (PCI) 22

Now, keeping in mind that the Extigy is on my USB 2.0 bus (Standard Enhanced) but it is *not*, or should not, be receiving the digital audio stream via the USB (if I pull out the Toslink from the nForce to the Extigy, the audio shuts off), is it possible that somehow, the Extigy being on the same IRQ as the nForce audio processor is causing the problem?

Also, I am now hesitant to buy a USB keyboard because the USB is sharing an IRQ with the audio subsystem whereas my PS/2 keyboard is not sharing an IRQ at all.

What do you think?

[Matt]

Before you spend money on a keyboard, I just wanted to mention that I may be wrong about the IRQ thing.  That's just what it was for me once.

Sometimes you can disable ports you're not using in the BIOS (LPT1, COM, etc.) to free some IRQs.

[paulr]

Yea, I wasn't going to buy one yet...  well, actually, I've been thinking about getting a new one anyway, but now I want to make sure I don't buy one that is going to cause more problems.

Anyway, I think that I am going to try a couple of things:
1.  Remove the Extigy from the loop entirely, but I think I need to buy a cable or adapter to do this.
2.  If #1 fails, I will perform a "repair install" of XP and disable ACPI.  This is a pain, but I not real fond of XP's ACPI implementation anyway.  Removing the ability to manually assign IRQ's was a mistake on Microsoft's part IMO.

If both of the above fail, I think I will contact nVidia and see if it could be a BIOS related problem.  I'll also contact MS tech support if I need to.

If all of that fails, then I have no idea what to do next aside from *not* typing while listening to music

[paulr]

I think I have it figured out...

It appears that it's the ASIO subsystem.  I had removed the SB Extigy from the loop and hooked my speakers up to the digital coax output on my motherboard, but the sputtering problem was still there.  Before I did anything drastic like reinstall XP, I decided to try every single combination I possibly could...  Switching from ASIO to Direct Sound fixed the problem (I think... it hasn't acted up yet).

I'd rather use ASIO, but I am happy for now...  Now I need to figure out if it's the driver or a hardware issue.

[paulr]

Update again:

After reading some nForce message boards, it seems it's a problem with a driver for computer type "ACPI Uniprocessor PC".

Going into the device manager > Computer > ACPI Uniprocessor PC > Properties > Update Driver > Install from a list or specific location > "Don't search, I will choose"...  Then select "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC".

Problem solved.

The only issue with this is I don't know how it will affect system performance.  It seems that I have about 7 fewer IRQ's with this setup than with ACPI Uniprocess PC. (was 22 IRQs. now it's 15).

I'll have to play some games and see how it goes.

Paul

(I am continuing to post this info here for the benefit of others...  Hopefully it will help someone)

[zevele10]

Do not know if OT or not.
But i fell that my Extigy external works better  with Direct Sound than with ASIO

[paulr]

Actually, I never figured out how to get the Extigy to play using ASIO, it doesn't even show up as an option for me.

But, the onboard nForce audio doesn't use the USB bus, and it can do all the digital processing on-chip.  So, I am using the nForce ASIO and connecting it to the Extigy via a Toslink cable.  The Extigy is now only used for headphones, driving my speakers  and external volume control...  Strange setup, I know, but it has pretty good results.

[xen-uno]

IRQ mapping...

http://www.pchell.com/hardware/irqs.shtml

ACPI (or something else) must extend the IRQ's out virtually...but there is still only 16 hardware interrupts (15 addressable) in any 80x86 processor based system AFAIK.

R_x

[paulr]

Thanks Xen-uno.  Excellent information.  I wonder what other effect this will have though?  I have to ask why Windows would bother extending virtual IRQs, unless it was just 'window dressing' to make people feel better.  I wouldn't put that past them actually.

[xen-uno]

While it's true that ISA type cards can't share IRQ's, PCI based cards have no problems here in my experience. On my work comp, 3 cards (at least) share IRQ 11...including the sound card (though I could be wrong here...I'll verify tomorrow). The CPU can only process one interrupt at a time, so in a perfect world, you would only need one IRQ and a good stack arrangement (which is already present).

R_x

[xen-uno]

Actually it's IRQ 9 (shared by USB1, USB2, SCSI, RAID, NIC, videocard, and soundcard on my machine)

[paulr]

The saga continues...

I was sent a new BIOS by MSI tech support.  One that is not available on their website (yet?).  Between flashing this BIOS and changing some drivers, I ended up with a copy of XP that wouldn't boot.  So, I decided that it would be a good time to start clean and reinstall everything.

Well, the new BIOS didn't fix anything... I'm not exactly sure what it did actually.  So, my problem is back and I am hesitant to perform the driver update I outlined above as I believe this is what, at least indirectly, led to my unbootable system... I think what happened was that after I flashed the BIOS, I tried to 'go back' to the "ACPI Uniprocessor PC" driver and it wasn't showing as available anymore, so I selected "Standard PC"...  This was a mistake  It seems that once you change to this driver, it is permanent.

Anyway, I'll wait for a little while to hear back from MSI, and if nothing else, I can still change to the other system driver that seemed to be working.

Yea Xen, I generally have never had problems with IRQ sharing.  However, I'd rather not have CPU intensive devices on the same IRQ (video card and sound card for example).  The fact that Microsoft has taken away the ability, in general, to change IRQ assignments is bad IMO.