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[TimB]

A major pet peeve of mine is the "things ain't what they used to be" way of thinking.

I think the need to put down today and tomorrow in favor of yesterday has gone on since the first creature crawled onto the beach, "...the primordial slime ain't what it used to be".

While there's still hunger and disease here and abroad we've made real steps towards improving the situation, the Internet links us all to each other in ways unimaginable 20 years ago, we've enfranchised many groups (women, minorities) that were ignored in the past, education, medicine, science the list goes on and on.  To go to the other extreme I can listen to 25% of my CD collection in my car on my "old-fashioned" gen2 iPod!  Do we have a long way to go, sure but we've come a long way too.

It used to be the fifties that were idealized and now it seems to be the sixties and seventies.  Does anyone remember their parents saying that Elvis, The Rolling Stones or Bruce Springsteen weren't real music?

I suspect its a way for us weird human beings to feel superior but I just can't buy into it and I fight it whenever I feel it creeping into my thoughts!  I guess a more generous interpretation is that its this element that drives us forward.

I read somewhere that there's graffitti on the walls on Pompeii saying that children don't respect their parents like they used to.

-=Tim=-

[DocLotus]

Well put

[GHammer]

Personally, I want to live in the Beaver's house and have Ward and June for parents.

I do not believe in 'progress'.

[rocketsauce]

I do not believe in 'progress'.

Then how come you're using a computer to play digital music files? Better break out the vinyl and dust off the turntable.

Rob

[ph_bradley]

vinyl was progress from live music, so i guess he has to go to (acoustic) concerts (with no lighting, except perhaps candles...)

[TimB]

Personally, I want to live in the Beaver's house and have Ward and June for parents.

I do not believe in 'progress'.

You must have the treadmill option running your computer, a little tiring on the legs however!

-=Tim=-

[Phydeaux]

Progress is necessary. Otherwise we would still be part of that great big glop of organic soup... I am reminded, at this juncture, of the Johnny Walker ad... "Take the first step." I need a drink.

P.

[GHammer]

I do not believe in 'progress'.

Then how come you're using a computer to play digital music files? Better break out the vinyl and dust off the turntable.

Rob

So, instead of being at my house or yours listening to a new LP over a beverage or two, I am in my room listening to digital music.

It's cool though, we can always chat online. Better yet, if you have a webcam, we can see each other in tiny jerky images on our computers.

Who says the digital revolution is not a good thing. It has done so much to bring people 'together'.

[Doof]

Nobody says you should stop hanging out with your friends just because you both own a computer.

But your computer and the internet open up the possibilities for you to meet and develop friendships with people you previously never would have had the oppurtunity to meet before. I have several really close friends that I never would have met, had it not been for the internet, however.

I, and almost all of my local friends, are IT guys. We have broadband connections to our houses. We have web cameras, and headsets that allow us to have voice and video chat. Doesn't mean that's how we interact with one another.

We get together 2-3 times a week and go play pool. We go to the movies. In our group, we have 2 avid hikers, 2 rock climbers, a juggler, a fisherman, a blackbelt in Judo, and a cave diver.

It's up to you to decide how you utilize today's technology and the progress that brought it about. Just because the computer's there, doesn't mean you have to sit in front of it all day and night.

[GHammer]

The very night that the Neo-Luddite Society wins the election all PCs will be outlawed. Productivity at corporations will rocket when workers are freed from looking at email that has been CCd to 100 people to add 'I concur' to it. No more endless twiddling fonts and sizes for a document or presentation.
Large mainframes attended by technicians may be allowed on a limited basis. Phone company billing, possibly the IRS. All others computers of any capacity will be scrapped.

[GHammer]

We get together 2-3 times a week and go play pool. We go to the movies. In our group, we have 2 avid hikers, 2 rock climbers, a juggler, a fisherman, a blackbelt in Judo, and a cave diver.

I would happily wager dollars against donuts that your group is a rare exception. A nice exception to be sure.

[GHammer]

I have a simple question regarding digital technology for all the progress proponents.

What important discoveries or inventions have come about due to computing? And here I'm talking about things like splitting atoms, rocketry, flight, you know, milestone 'discoveries'.

[TimB]

I have a simple question regarding digital technology for all the progress proponents.

What important discoveries or inventions have come about due to computing? And here I'm talking about things like splitting atoms, rocketry, flight, you know, milestone 'discoveries'.

I'm betting that reading my email while watching TV in my recliner doesn't count?

How about this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genome/guide/human/ number crunching and analysis made possible by computers I believe.

-=Tim=-

[paulr]

It sounds to me like your problem isn't with computers and technology itself, but in the way people you know use them...

Things computers have enabled us to do:
Human Genome project
Creation, at a prolific rate, of new drugs
The modeling of physical processes (e.g. magnetic properties of the Earth's core and weather prediction)
Testing of scientific theories (the progress towards a Grand Unified Theory would not be possible without computer modeling)
Development of new devices that can detect disease almost instantly

The list is almost endless.  Try checking out some science news sources to see what is really going on in science these days.

[rocketsauce]

Who says the digital revolution is not a good thing. It has done so much to bring people 'together'.

I spend 8 hours a day at work, together with people. Then I often spend several hours with friends (who are also people) after work. People are tiring and annoying. By the time Saturday rolls around, I look forward to being alone with the machines.

Rob

[GHammer]

It sounds to me like your problem isn't with computers and technology itself, but in the way people you know use them...

Things computers have enabled us to do:
Human Genome project
Creation, at a prolific rate, of new drugs
The modeling of physical processes (e.g. magnetic properties of the Earth's core and weather prediction)
Testing of scientific theories (the progress towards a Grand Unified Theory would not be possible without computer modeling)
Development of new devices that can detect disease almost instantly

The list is almost endless.  Try checking out some science news sources to see what is really going on in science these days.

New drugs. Detection of disease instantly.
Yet most of the world gets sicker and sicker with known diseases.
By the way, I do not rate speeding up a processes as a discovery.

Testing of theories.
Yet most of what is being tested was thought of decades ago by guys without computers. What theory has been proposed soley because of the existence of a computer?

Weather prediction.
Yet I get wet at my picnic, NASA scrubs launches because of lousy weather. There are opposing camps on Global warming. Again, predicting weather existed, computers supposedely give better accuracy, or longer timeframes.

I'll give you genome sequencing. And as soon as companies find a way to profit off it, we'll see something useful come of it.

As for not having a problem with computers or technology. I'm undecided. I think they are cool toys but I don't think life without them was a terrible thing either. Many times what people tell me is a 'discovery' is simply what I like to call 'paving a cowpath'.

[bebop]

How about the ability to have smaller and better insulin pumps, hearing aids and pacemakers?  don't they count?  Without technology these wouldn't be available...not to mention bioelectric limbs for child amputees?  Medical innovation comes via progress, both with computer modeling and smaller processors avaliable.  My nephew wouldn't have his various "arms" - one to play sports, one for swimming and one for everyother thing if  the technologies didn't exist.  My dad wouldn't have  had those extra three years with us without the implanted cardiac stimulator.  My daughter would have had to have a double mascetomy without the innovation of new imaging techniques.  I love technology - I owe it, and the innovators of these things more than I could ever express.