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[bebop]

Been thinking about these HTPC's you all are building...how is it going?  Are you happy with the end result?  How hard is it to do and are there any available that aren't DIY?  The cost isn't really an issue here - we are of the mind that if it's worth it, then we can save for it  (what  really means is that I can forgo buying any more shoes for my vast collection   ).  We spend alot of time our leisure time at home listening to tunes and watching movies. Our stereo equipment is ancient and in need of replacement, but the TV is a Toshiba rear projection TW40F80 with surround sound.  The house is wired for sound, but I haven't a clue about the speakers used in the ceiling...  So, any and all input is greatfully accepted.  Thanks     Bet

[JimH]

You could try it first before you build or buy anything.

Just move your PC or get a long audio cable and connect your PC to your stereo AMP.

Here's a page that gives you a little info:

http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/amp.html

Playback of MP3 files will sound OK.  You'll get playback identical to a CD if you use APE or another lossless format.

To do video, you may need to upgrade your video card.  ATI All in Wonder cards are the most common.

[bebop]

Thanks Jim, will hook it up tonight and give it a whirl...About the MP3's...all mine are just that....MP3, VBR Normal, High quality...mainly due to the fact that that's all my Nomad will recognize.  Can these easily be changed to APE or lossless or is that moot as they were recorded in the MP3 format?

[paulr]

Unfortunately, since MP3 is a lossy format, there is no way to get back to a lossless format.  You would have to re-rip all of your CDs into APE or some other lossless format.  There is a plus side to this though...  Once you re-rip everything into a lossless format, you can convert to any format your player supports now and in the future - just make sure to keep your lossless files around.

[bebop]

Paulr, thanks.  I wanted a separate drive for the audio files(can't have too many backups IMO) anyways so re-ripping is ok for most of my stuff, some, however were ripped from old tapes and lp's of my Mom's and my uncle and are unavailable unless I take a trip out to the prairies with the mini van to bring them back....she is computerless, alas. (I put them on CD for long ago before I discovered that different formats were probably a better bet...sigh).  My biggest question though is, are there HTPC's available that aren't DIY?  My tech skills are a little on the shaky side...can swap out drives and add cards to the mbo, but that's about it so building one from scratch is a little scary   and then there are all the choices!!!  Reading about all the different views about which mbo, case, video card is rather confusing - and if I do this, I want to do it right!

[JimH]

You might try getting as far as you can with an ordinary PC.  Adding a video card may be good enough.  The Purists won't approve, of course.

Also, your MP3 VBR's may be good enough.

[paulr]

Well, if you have some old tapes converted to MP3, then I would suggest, if you have the disk space, to convert them to APE anyway.  Since they are in MP3 already, some information has been lost forever.  However, if you convert them to APE you can "freeze" them from further loss when (or if) you need to convert to another lossy format in the future (they will be a lot larger in APE format though).

As for pre-built HTPCs, I know several manufacturers offer Windows MCE systems, but those are geared specifically to use Microsoft software (WMP for example).  I suppose it would be easy to install MC and use it instead.

If you want to use the HTPC for television and you need a TV tuner card, I would recommend the Hauppauge 250 or 350.  If you aren't planning on using MC for this function, SageTV is a great commercial solution and they sell discounted packages with tuner cards.  GB-PVR is a freeware solution, but it is a little more "techy" than Sage.  GB-PVR also has a server for the MediaMVP if you want to use one.  Sage also acts as a server if you buy the Sage client software (allows you to stream programs to a client computer).  Currently, I use Sage and love it. (The Hauppauge comes with a remote that is automatically configured by SageTV for use in Sage...  The remote is pretty basic though and is not really suitable for controlling several applications.)

Unfortunately, I can't give much advice on pre-built systems as I am building my own and have not done much research on them.  But, most of the setup is pretty easy.  The most difficult part, for my project at least, will be setting up Girder and NetRemote.

My HTPC is currently on hold, but hopefully I will be able to finish this thing in a couple of months.

[bebop]

Thanks for the input guys...I'm not in a hurry and like I said, when I do this I want to do it right.  

Jim, what do you mean when you say "ordinary PC"?  Do you mean just getting another PC (I currently have a VIO RZ14G)? Are there systems with a fast enough video card?  Also, I thought cooling was an important issue - was I mistaken on this?

[bebop]

Was looking at the sites Pip had suggested in another thread to you Paul, re: the DM 5000(digimatrix0 from direct PC...would this configuration be acceptable for what I would need to watch movies, record some shows, look at slideshows and listen to my tunes via MC?  Could the Hauppage card be added in to this type of setup?  the cost of this isn't all that outrageous....just a pair or two of Manolo's!! Are there better ones available?  Anyone have any experience with this company?  Are they reputable?  I am a babe in the woods here with this, so could use all the steering in the right directions possible.  

This is what I found on the website of DirectPC:

Warranty :   1-Year Limited Warranty
Installation option :  Standard (Three to five business days of assembling, testing and set-up software)
Processor :  Intel Celeron 2.8 GHz
Memory :  (2 GB Total) 2x1GB DDR 333 Mhz PC2700
Hard Drive :  300 GB - 5400 Rpm
Optical Drive :  Combo Drive (DVD-ROM / CD-RW)
Video :  Integrated SIS315 3D GRAPHIC
Sound :  Integrated AC97 s/w audio, 6 channel codec
Network Card :  Integrated 10/100 Mbps LAN + Gigabit LAN + Wireless 802.11b WiFi
USB ports :  6 USB ports (4 Front and 2 Back)
Devices with Removable Storage :  7-in-1 memory card reader
Keyboard and Mouse :  Cordless Keyboard W/Optical Mouse - Black
Speakers :  Speakers Logitech® Z-680 (5.1 configuration 500 Watts)
Operating Systems (OS) :  Microsoft Windows Xp Home Edition
AntiVirus and PC Guard Software  :  McAfee Viruscan



Thanks again, guys, I value the input.   Bet

[paulr]

I can't comment on the company as I have never done business with them and don't know anyone who has.  The DM 5000 looks okay, but I have a couple of concerns:

1.  It is very important IMO that the TV tuner has hardware MPEG encoding.  I can't tell from their documentation what kind of TV tuner they have.  Without hardware encoding, your cpu will be used for this task.  Every time I have tried to use a card like this there have been sound sync issues.  Pay the extra money for one that has it - you'll find you have fewer headaches this way.
2. With XP installed, you will definitely need more than the default 256 MB of RAM.  I think you mentioned in your post that you would put in 2 Gig.  That's fine, but might be excessive.  I'd say 1 Gig is plenty and will save money for an upgrade to the...
3.  40 GB hard disk...  I can't even believe this is an option.  With the OS and applications installed, this would only allow you to record a couple of hours worth of video.  Definitely go with the 300 GB as you wrote.
4.  The integrated video - I don't know enough about this chipset to comment, but I would be cautious.
5.  Speakers?  If this is being hooked up to your stereo, there is no need.
6.  Are there any free PCI slots available?  This system looks very thin and I couldn't find this information...  If you want to add a Hauppauge card, or any other card for that matter, you will need at least 1 free PCI slot.

Now, if you keep looking, or decide you want to build one yourself, I would recommend a motherboard based on the nForce2 SoundStorm chipset .  Information can be found on nVidia's website and here: http://www.nforcershq.com/ .  IMO, this is currently the best built in chipset for audio that's available right now.  It handles Dolby Digital in hardware and has a lot of customizability in the drivers.

[paulr]

Almost forgot...

Cooling:  Cooling is important in all PCs.  The issue with HTPCs is not necessarily cooling itself, but *quiet* cooling.  There are several websites with information on this topic.  A quick google search for "Quiet PC" will turn up many results.  Fred Langa wrote a pretty comprehensive guide to quiet cooling on the informationweek website.  You can find the articles here:  http://www.informationweek.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=21401323 .  Click on the "Part one", "part two", or "part three" links.

[bebop]

thanks Paulr, I have bookmarked all the suggested reading and will be doing my homework for sure.  Are there any other premade products out there that you know of?  I googled, but just came up with  DIY sites (many that I read just to see what people were using for components).  Cooling is really important here, as the system would be installed in an existing built in cabinet.

[paulr]

Sure thing!  I'm glad I can help...

It seems like the generic term "HTPC" does lead to mostly do-it-yourself solutions.  However, if look for MCE pcs, then there are a number of choices.  Alienware (http://www.alienware.com/product_pages/media_center_pc.aspx ) is one of them.  They all run Windows MCE (XP with media center stuff).  I believe they come with remote controls and have hardware MPEG, but I could be wrong about the last part.  J River Media Center should run just fine on these systems, and I would expect that customizing the remote control software for MC wouldn't be too terribly difficult.  I cannot think of a reason why one of these wouldn't be a decent choice (they all have to conform to Microsoft's media center specification) although they may be a little more expensive.

Edit:  Mini-ITX is another option, but the processing speeds are quite low.  (http://www.mini-itx.com/ ).

[bebop]

Thanks!!   This will really help in making a decision.One other question...when reading up on APE,OGG,WMA...there was a mention of licencing problems with APE...any idea what that was all about or where I can get the info?   Typically, I forgot to bookmark the page when I was looking at it last weekend...aaarrrgghhh.   thanks again for all the info!!!   Bet

[paulr]

I have no idea what that could be.  APE was written by Matt who works right here at JRiver, so I would expect it to always have the best support.  The only problem with licensing I can think of would have to do with Digital Rights Management and WMA Lossless.  As it stands, no one sells music in APE format that I know of, so that shouldn't be an issue.  There are a couple of indy music sellers (MagnaTune, etc.) that sell lossless, but I don't think they have DRM restrictions..  At least MagnaTune doesn't.

[bebop]

Great, then APE it is...gotta go with the MC guys, after all . Bet  

[paulr]

Here are a couple of companies that I just ran across while checking the SageTV forums:

http://www.tapeitall.com/index.asp
http://www.xmediazone.com/

They both sell preconfigured systems and look quite nice.

[bebop]

Thanks Paulr, have added them to my reading list.   Bet