Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hit_ny]

Many people have asked for extended APLs, or a way for MC to understand windows shortcuts.

A way to create a link to another media file which MC would treat as an individual file rather than just point to it (a weakness with using playlists for this purpose)

This would help in cutting out duplicates as there is no need to keep redundant copies on disk for the sake of album completness. It would also allow the creation of lists that could combine different types of media and to be saved as a unique collection in MC. Something that might become more common with v11 wanting to support all types of media.

How about a virtual link ?

This will be a new type [Media Type=Link] within MC that would not leave any trace on the filesystem and only be stored in the library.
- It would be indicated with a unique icon in the playing list.
- It would work with any type of media.
- It should be easy, to create, manage and use.

Some examples of possible use:
- There is list of files in playing now, or in a viewscheme.

A right click->Library Tools->Link->Create Link.

There could a few options that specify where to create these links (in a playlist or a dir).

The Link would appear in an Album view or view scheme. It would also be seen in the tree view of a directory (for consistency) but would not be visible in windows file explorer as it does not actually exist on the disk. If linked files are moved around in the tree the links would automatically update.

The advantage of a virtual link (that exists only in MC) over an extended APL file that exists on the drive is less clutter on the drive. The library with panes and view schemes seems like a more powerful way to organise media than the  tree view of windows explorer.

I'm also uncertain of how intuitive it is for an APL file to point to non-APE files (for the APE heads out there).

What do people think ?

[Alex B]

I am very much used to exploring my music collection (and album cover images and videos also) by HD location. (MC tree -> Media Library -> Advanced -> Hard Disk Location).

I feel like walking on a thin ice with the current implementation of CUE file support, because the tracks exist only in the library. I would not mind having more files on my drives. Any kind of link files would be very small and they would stay in their folders.

In my opinion MC library's logic is mostly build for single physical track files. I think it would be a very simple task for Matt & co to broaden the current splendidly working APL file support to several file formats and single-track files also. (Without forgetting the editable link path...)

It needs much more work done before a totally new "virtual" track support would work in all aspects. Actually the now introduced CUE file support is virtual. Tracks exist only in the MC library.

This will be a new type [Media Type=Link] within MC that would not leave any trace on the filesystem and only be stored in the library.
- It would be indicated with a unique icon in the playing list.
- It would work with any type of media.
- It should be easy, to create, manage and use.

This is all good. The mechanism is mostly already there with the CUE support (and APL). I just like to have an option for having a container file for the link and tags. (As we now have an option for writing tags to the files.)

[Cmagic]

Folks,

I am resurfacing this topic as I wonder if there is now a way of doing virtual link to audio files with MC12 ?
I checked that MC12 can now import windows link files (.lnk) but doing so cannot help in creating a virtual album. Cue files are just playlists and in the exact same way Alex explains in this thread I would not mind having small link files to implement those virtual albums.

In short, what would be needed is a container (a bit like APL) only storing tags and a link to an audio file in mp3, mpc, ogg format. I personally use mostly mpc and ape. I considered matroska mka container but I got lost in my googling.

Is anybody aware of any trick to do that since 2004 ?

Thanks,

Christian

[Alex B]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!


Here is another:
Topic: APL file format support could be better  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25087.0

I posted about this earlier, but I think this needs a separate thread.

CUE entries have still several disadvantages. E.g. copying or moving CUE album files to another folder or computer preserving tagging is difficult (impossible?). Tagging generates false error messages. They cannot be played with Library Server. More can be found in the "Cue file support in MC11" thread.

That is why I would prefer physical APL type link files with APE2 tags. Until now I though that APL can support only Monkey's Audio format.

I have recently found that MakeAPL and Foobar 2000 can make APL files from CUE sheets pointing to MP3, Musepack and Ogg Vorbis audio files. Foobar 2000 can play them flawlessly. MC accepts only the APE variant.

I have made a little test package. It includes a small audio track in various audio formats (APE, MP3, Musepack & Vorbis), corresponding cue sheets and APL files (made with MakeAPL and Foobar2000).

Perhaps Matt could have a look for it. I wonder if only minor tweaking is needed because MC can already use playback range information from CUE sheet files. It is here (about 4.5 MB).

APL licensing fees are assessed on a per-format basis, so costs may be prohibitive (sarcasm)

Seriously though, we'll look at it sometime.  Thanks Alex.

Still waiting...   

(Hint: the linked APL test package is up again.)

[Cmagic]

Thanks for the links Alex,

It would indeed be great to be able to use the APL format as a (APE2) tag container plus link to an audio file (ogg, mp3, mpc).
I tried several other solutions beside cue including .lnk and .url files. At one point I also thought that stacking could help in some way. The idea I had was to create short dummy mpc or ogg files (say 1 second audio only) that would never be played but will act as a tag container. Then I thought that If I stacked those dummy files with the real ones this would create some kind of links through the library.
For this to work, we should have the ability to always play one particular file (the master one) within a stack regardless of the position of the one that is actually played in the stack.

Anyway I'm just having fun playing with the new features in JRMC12,

C.

 

[Alex B]

If the APL format could support various encoding formats it would be an easy task for a plugin developer to create a plugin for making apl files that could be used as virtual links with any audio tracks.

Here is a screenshot from a hexeditor. I have opened an APL file that points to a single track. It is not a mockup. I am playing the file with MC right now.



The format is very simple. It contains only the filename and playback range info. When an APL file points to a single separate track the playback range can simply be from 0 to -1. I.e. the file is played from the beginning to the end. The rest of the file contains standard APE tags.

[Eccles]

There must be something in the air - I was just thinking this afternoon how nice it would be if MC had a means of creating shortcuts/symbolic links/pointers/whatever, so that I could remove a great many duplicates yet still be able to find (and play/sync/whatever) them in all their original playlists/albums/etc.

[Cmagic]

Yep,

There must be something in the air

That must be the effect of spring 

C.

Listening to: 'Do Something' from 'Long Road Out of Eden' by 'Eagles' on Media Center 12

[hit_ny]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Hehe, yeah.

The only way atm to create collections of random files is to use playlists.

[Cmagic]

Yeah playlist should be the way but, when it comes to creating kind of virtual albums,
- You cannot apply a particular cover art for a playlist
- You cannot manage playlist (album) related library field independently of the library fields of the underlying files
- You cannot list playlists along regular albums.
Here is a situation: I'm collecting records like many here.
I have this great album Herbie Hancock - The columbia years. It's a 2 CD set which is actually a compilation (released on CD in 1994) of 3 previously released (1969, 1970 1971) albums. I would like them to appear under Herbie hancock as :
1969 - Fat Albert Rotunda (Virtual album)
1970 - Mwandishi (Virtual Album)
1971 - Crossings (Virtual Album)
1994 - The complete Warner Bros Recordings (2CD set, regular album. Actually the 2LP version was released in 1972)

Each of the 4 albums with their own cover arts and album released dates. Today I can do that by actually copying the files in the directories, but well that is wasting space a bit.

All'in all this is not that of a big deal you might say, space is cheap those days. still...

And I was also thinking that in the light of recent MC developement toward image stacking and virtual image processing, a virtual link feature would also benefit MC image section by allowing virtual copies just like in Lightroom.

Ah, thanks all and have a nice day. Sunny this morning in Paris, hope it will be for the day.

Christian

[Alex B]

For now, you could use cue files for creating those albums. However, that would not be very practical. Here are my instructions for the rather complex procedure:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29082.msg201123#msg201123

(yet another old thread about virtual tracks)

[Cmagic]

Thanks Alex,

Your cue trick is old but it works ! I just tried it. Althought it can take some time to set up for long albums/compilation it allows to have proper tags for the virtual album.

Nevertheless, a proper file virtualization system would be a good thing for both audio and image files I think.

Best,

Christian

[hit_ny]

Yeah playlist should be the way but, when it comes to creating kind of virtual albums,
- You cannot apply a particular cover art for a playlist
- You cannot manage playlist (album) related library field independently of the library fields of the underlying files
- You cannot list playlists along regular albums.

All very valid statements.

Here is a situation: I'm collecting records like many here.
I have this great album Herbie Hancock - The columbia years. It's a 2 CD set which is actually a compilation (released on CD in 1994) of 3 previously released (1969, 1970 1971) albums. I would like them to appear under Herbie hancock as :
1969 - Fat Albert Rotunda (Virtual album)
1970 - Mwandishi (Virtual Album)
1971 - Crossings (Virtual Album)
1994 - The complete Warner Bros Recordings (2CD set, regular album. Actually the 2LP version was released in 1972)

Each of the 4 albums with their own cover arts and album released dates. Today I can do that by actually copying the files in the directories, but well that is wasting space a bit.

I can suggest an approach to deal with this without needing virtual links

Just drop all the files in a folder named  Herbie Hancock - The columbia years (2CD)

then tag each of the files to their repsective albums with corresponding art etc. Since its a box set of orginal albums that might not be too much of a problem. From the perspective of viewschemes they will appear as seperate albums (which they actually are)

And at the filesystem level it will appear as one unit.

.
And I was also thinking that in the light of recent MC developement toward image stacking and virtual image processing, a virtual link feature would also benefit MC image section by allowing virtual copies just like in Lightroom.

i suggested virtual links be internal as i was thinking of them as applying to any kind of media. APLs seems a contrived way of doing it as they were originally intended just for Audio (APE audio at that as well).

And since only MC will understand this virtual setup there need not be any trace of it in the filesystem

[Cmagic]

All very valid statements.
I can suggest an approach to deal with this without needing virtual links

Just drop all the files in a folder named  Herbie Hancock - The columbia years (2CD)

then tag each of the files to their repsective albums with corresponding art etc. Since its a box set of orginal albums that might not be too much of a problem. From the perspective of viewschemes they will appear as seperate albums (which they actually are)

And at the filesystem level it will appear as one unit.

i suggested virtual links be internal as i was thinking of them as applying to any kind of media. APLs seems a contrived way of doing it as they were originally intended just for Audio (APE audio at that as well).

And since only MC will understand this virtual setup there need not be any trace of it in the filesystem

That's a very pragmatic approach which is relevant in this particular case. However as a kindof "picky" collector I would also like the compiled album (Columba recordings) to be listed along the 3 original albums that it is a compilation of.
Another thing is that this does not really work for virtual compilation.

Anyway, picking ideas from various folks (hacking steps from Alex and mpl inspiration from hit) I came up with a workflow that seems to work so far, although it requires some hacking.
(Don't do that on a production library ! Try on a sandbox one and always backup before )

1 - Create a standard playlist to gather files for your virtual album
2 - Go picking files in your collection to either make a completely virtual album or a partly virtual one
3 - Export the created playlist in .mpl format
4 - Edit the saved .mpl playlist in the following way (from Alex B)
4.1 - prepend a ";1" or ";n" (depending on the number of virtual copies) to every filename (<Field Name="Filename">) thats just after the filename extension (e.g. .mp3 -> .mp3;1)
4.2 - add <Field Name="Playback Range">0-0</Field> to every track of your playlist (This is very important as it seems to be the trick that actually "virtualizes" the new library entry you are creating)
4.3 - replace the album field with the name of your virtual album (<Field Name="Album">)
5 - Import the edited mpl playlist back to MC
6 - Your new virtual album should be listed. You can now tag it and add a cover art without changing the actual tags and fields of the linked files. You have created virtual copies of your files.

Using this workflow I was able to handle my Herbie Hancock case. I have four albums listed now (3 originals and one compilation).
I was able to make virtual compilation albums complete with cover art.
I was able to make variation of albums (e.g. The Rolling Stones early album often had a european and a U.S. version. I only have the european LP or CD but was able to recreate the U.S edition by picking different tracks and a different sequence of tracks and the different cover arts)

As a general comment I think that a virtual copy (VC) should indeed be completely virtual, requiring no physical files to store tags into like in the .apl approach. The mpl playslist allow that although it requires a bit of work.

Thanks Alex, hit_ny and all,

Christian

[hit_ny]

Fabulous !!

Now all you need is a text macro that will automatically do this on the mpl file and you are set.

There are some concerns :

• What happens if you move any of the orginal files (within MC) to a different location ? Do the virtual items also update the file location or does the file reference become invalid ?
  
  I think with MC11 this was the case but with MC 12 moving cue albums automatically updates the [Filepath] for the cue items as well.

.

• You will need to exclude these virtual albums from viewschemes designed to show library stats. Or the extra items will affect the final totals. One approach mught be to tag all virtual tracks as CUE (virtual) and then just filter.

.

• It isn't as easy to add (subtract is just as easy) to playlists (virtual albums) compared to the usual way. If your selections are fixed and not too fluid, then this is certainly an acceptable compromise.

I see an  extra advantage to playlists of any kind being treated *now* like any other album.

In a viewscheme that references a group (or more) of playlists, I found the speed at which the results appear to be much slower than with regular items. As MC sems to hunt for all the items and only then refreshes the viewscheme. Now its certainly faster to just use the playlist tree but then that's what viewschemes (panes browsing) were made for