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[xsivfun1]

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the universe that MC exists in, yet, I can tell by reading the posts in iteract that I don't know enough of the esoteric bits, bites and things to optimize both my expericene with MC and my library collection.  I suspect that I am not the only one out there and that there are a great deal of us silent users who would like to know how best to take advantage of some of the less intuitive features in MC.  For instance, I would like to know more about problems with MP3's, WMA/V's, how to remix songs that sound like crap even though they came straight off a CD, how and which Plugins to use, specifically the "DMX"?? audio enhancer or something or other.  There are a great deal more topics I could think of, but my point is, you should host a monthly 30-60min netmeeting training course where paying customers can get a little "several (but not too many) to one (or two or three)" attentiion and training.  Again, this would be an extra charge to the customer above the license.  I would pay a fee (TBD) for this.  Further, it could be used (if your company's resources aren't already stretched to there maximum) as a differentater amongst other players by throwing in a free session or two with the purchase of say MC11 by a certain date.  Just some thoughts.  Please know that I do try to find many answers myself either through the product help docs or here at interact, but for some things, these mediums are not sufficient.   Let me just close by saying that if this is of interest to you, and you would like more specifics, or my help with this further, let me know and I'll get you my phone number.

[xsivfun1]

Sorry for the couple of spelling errors.  Too long a message + too many ineruptions ='s... well you saw it.  It's just that I would like the extra attention for quite a few different questions, am willing to pay for it to get it, believe others would too, and that this could be a great selling point for MC (not that it needs anymore).  Also, if can help roll out the program in anyway, I would be glad to discuss this as well.  I know just what it needs and just what to do.

Thx again.

[kaiynne]

I believe that people have discussed a tutorial system, where certain aspects of MC use would have a a dedicated tutorial, helping those with no experience to get started and helping those with much experience to fully utilize the features of MC.  When this was brought up, I was fairly new to MC v9 and was willing to help out as I had taken the time to really understand the full potential of MC.  Then MC10 came out and I felt like I once again had no clue what was going on due to added features and new implementations of old features.  It seems like MC is getting better and better every few days, and this means a continually steep learning curve.  I would still be happy to help implement a tutorial system, but it seems like it would be outdated very quickly unless it was quite general which is not what you want in a tutorial.

What I am trying to say is that group lessons are only going to get you so far, and I think this was what you meant about the whole MC11 thing, once it is stable then start teaching it.  But it seems like the minute there is a stable version dev. on the the next version begins.  I personally love this, but I agree with you that it makes things hard to keep up with.

[xsivfun1]

Thank you for your reply.  As you can see by my ranking, I am very new to posting; not just in this forum, but any.  It took me a long time to understand how all this "billboars/forums" stuff works.  It's a beautiful thing.  Also, I am very happy to be apart of a comunity where the sharing of knowledge for now other reward than that which is recieived in the offering itself is encouraged.  
Anyway, your points are very well taken.  I hadn't thought much about the problems with learning and relearning the product that some version changes cause.   I'll have to think about that one a bit longer.  
But something in what you wrote makes me wonder if I have made myself exactly clear with the examples I used.  That may be indicative of exactly what I am talking about.  And/or, I am probably not the clearest writier who will post here.  So if I may bend your a ear a bit more, I would like to clarify my position a bit.  
As I said, I agree with you about the challenges that a dynamic product generates, but I feel that there is a great deal of knowledge to pass on and training that can be given on basic and advanced tasks, features, operations and tips relating to the general topic of working with digital media, and working with digitial media in preperation for use with Media Center,  as well as how to best use the many operations and features of MC provides that don't change much or at all.  Media server, for example.  There is not a lot of, forgive me for saying, helpful information in the help file.  What are the best ways to use it in a multi PC environment where users need different permissions. I am not relating here the questions I have regarding this one basic issue of what Media Server can and can not do, what it does best, and what would be the best way to acheive my particular goal.  Now perhaps I have a slanted view of the customer base.  If so, then, my idea can be used to expand the market it currently serves to a whole new demographic.  And perhaps this whole idea is either beyhond the capabilities of MC as acompany due to personel resources and/or budgetary constraints or that the idea is just beyond the scope of the companies stratagy.  In either case, it is also very probable that I have just slid way over the "no, you don't sound too much like an idiot geek...NOT" ledge and that the no one else cares about most of the static type things I think could be taught.  I mean, I bet there are a great deal of people who don't even know about the ways they could use MC and so haven't even wondered how to do some of the things I have tried with varing levels of success to make work with MC.  Let me wrap this up (finally) by pointing out that I consider myself a power user with computes and software.  I am more technical than most sales guys out there and very close, generally speaking, to a sales engineer.  I have been using MC10 for around a year (I think) and MC11 for a couple months.  I have mostly figured out most things, but as is obvious, not all things all the way.  Yet, there are a lot of topics, questions, and advice that are floating around Interact Forum that further illustrate to me that there is so much in the universe of digital media that I need to know, would like to know and if and how MC can do now, will do later, and what the suggested work arounds are.   And while this forum is great, I would like to understand why exactly, as I have often read, there is so much contention over the issue of MP3 vs. WMA.  It seems to me that aside from storage considerations, compatablity issues, and I think possibly tagging issues, a person should just use which ever one works for them, and sounds good or the best to them.  But there must be a great deal more to consider based on the sustained level of energy this conversation generates.   This is another example of information I think would stay relatively static and could be brought up for clarification in one of these mentoring/netmeeting type things I am advocating.   If nothing else, it would stop me from typing so much here.  LOL!  Sorry for being long winded and probably somewhat unclear.  I really appreciate your time on this with me.

xsivfun1

BTW - Generally speaking, what is the eddicate here?

[kaiynne]

Not a problem at all, I am very interested in how information is attained with respect to all things, not least of which is software and computers in general.
It seems to me that there are aspects of digital media, which are fairly static, most of which have been incorporated into media center.  Then there are things that are currently in development (within the digital media domain) and are yet to be implemented in MC.  Part of this problem comes about because we are still on the very edge of the curve with respect to digital media.  Thus new implementations and new hardware capabilities are being developed constantly, this to me is the main cause of the constant changes in media center.

I think you are exactly right when it comes to the help file, the expectation seems to be that you will spend the time to learn the program through trial and error or through the message board.  This appears to be the model that JRiver has chosen, and part of that model means little time spent on helpfiles and such but plenty of time on development, which reduces the cost passed on to us the user.  This model seems to work well, but it only works in so far as MC is designed for the enthusiast, the person who is on the bleeding edge of the curve.  It is pretty clear to me that most people upon their first experience with MC are either astounded at the possiblities or scared at the prospect of learning to use it.

Thus you will end up with two types of user, one who spends the time and energy to learn the functions and implementations of digital media as they learn of new possiblities.  Or you will have a user that pays for someone to come in and design a system for them that while it incorporates MC uses it mainly as a backend, with something like Media lobby as a "user friendly" front end.  Thus you have installers whos job it is to know MC and other softtware inside out so that they can best implement the solution to match the needs of their customers.  Once again the MC model of support favours this as well.

Yet it is certainly possible with one on one help for someone who is not inclined to learn for themselves the functions of media center through trolling the forum and trial and error.  I know because I have taught my wife to use it and she is more than profficient and learned essentially everything i had to teach in about a tenth of the time it took me to learn it myself.

the question then becomes is it neccesary for someone to be taught from the ground up in this way.  I think most likely not, mainly because it is extremly unlikely that MC will be the first media player that you will encounter, more often than not MC user have had experience with other software packages and have found MC mainly through dissatisfaction with them.  yet they must have some knowledge of digital media in order to be craving more power over their media.  So it seems unlikely that the rudimentary functions of MC would need be taucght to the average user who stumbles upon MC.

This is why the tutorial system seems like the best fit, for one it will cost JRiver nothing but the space on the server to host it and the occasional correction possibly, and by combining the efforts of multiple people we are likely to find solutions that are brilliant but that very few people are aware of.  This is the true power of the tutorial, because really until you read a full tutorial, it is hard to even grasp what everyone else even knows.  There may well be something you are doing which no-one else is aware of and you would never even know it.  For example the multiple ipod smartlist tutorial, I am not sure of the authors name but that implementation was pure genius and saved me many hours of attempting to come up with a similiar system which undoubtedly would have been worse.

So while I agree with you that there is a need for training the question is what type of training and also who shall it be directed at.  There are people on this board for example kingsparta and mastif, who could undoubtedly write tutorials on plugin design and multi zone control, yet they probably do not know everything there is to know and were those tutorials created and then opened up to input from the rest of the forum they would be an invaluable resource.

[xsivfun1]

Let me again offer my gratitude to you for your taking the time with this somewhat off the main path topic.  I really do appreciate it.  

So, for the record I want you to know that I agree with you; again!  As I read your post, silently noding in agreement with most every point you wrote almost completely, it suddenly occurred to me that, while I still feel that in princiiple that as a basic concept, there is room to further explore my idea (verbally) with the intent to augment the system in place, the only real value that what ever program we might institue would is one of immediacy.  Not a triffle to be sure as we live in the Age of Convienence or Everything Now, but with your comments in mind, and this sudden realization about the nature of my inspiration, I am left wondering if the "cost/gain" value ratio would ever be worth the effort.  I think this "feature request" goes under  the column heading of "future desired" features and not "future must have's".  

Again,

Thank you, and if there ever is enough reason or interest for something like this, know that my offer to hep in anyway I can is still on the table.  

[GHammer]

Call me a dinosaur, everyone else does.

I use MC to play music. I do not tag with it, I do not rip with it, shoot, I don't even burn with it anymore.

Why? Well frankly, I have read or experienced the problems that others have with those functions. I have lots of music that can't be easily replaced at this time. So, I run the alpha/beat releases, but I do not trust them to change my files.

MC is the greatest for simply organizing/finding/playing my music. I'd like to be able to rip/tag/etc. but at this point I stay with proven apps for those. I wouldn't trade the playing ability of MC for anything though.

I'd be in favor of a new forum, maybe something like "Tips and Tricks" where folks could share their methods of getting the most out of MC. If there needed to be a video clip to illustrate something and the contributor was willing, cool. Otherwise, telling what and how should be enough.

Would I pay to get these ideas? No, personally I would not.
Would I submit things I have learned? Sure.

[xsivfun1]

Wow, great feedback.  I would love a couple suggestions of the apps you use to tag.  Tagging my files in such a way so that when I have to use different players for specific tasks, ie Creative's Player for the Nomad Zen for the actual reorg of what I port over to it from Media Center or like Winamp for the use of Evil lyrics, these players pull as much of the customizations I have added as possible to facilitate finding what I want, as well as to keep from having to repeat my efforts over and over again for each new app.  

One specific taggin type problem I have in my process is that Creative software won't see any tag Media Center puts on it accept Title, Track, Duration, Album, and Genre (I think that is all of them).  How I get music from my PC to my Zen in an acceptable fashion today is by making a playlist in MC and then copying that playlist to my zen.  I can only do one list at a time or it merges them because the playlist does not copy.  After the playlist is on my Zen, I use Creative's player organizer (it sucks tremendously) to find all the new files, I select those and put them in a playlist matching the name found on MC.  It's been awhile since I transferred any files to my Zen because of the difficulty I have incurred, so I am not sure if this is still true.  I use to have to change the genre's of any files going onto my zen from my pc to something like new from what it really was so that I could find them once they were mixed with others on the zen.  Once I find the "new" genered files I could correct them and themn playlist them.  Too much work.  What do you suggest?  

[hit_ny]

I use MC to play music. I do not tag with it, I do not rip with it, shoot, I don't even burn with it anymore.

Surpised to learn you dont use it for tagging. I feel the tagging in MC is really great, it has replaced 3rd party tagging apps for me.  simple to use and quite powerful & quick.  I am referring to v10, though i doubt it has changed much in v11, with the exception of being even faster.

I dont play the upgrade everyday game...only sticking to versions that i notice get positve feedback.

I only use mp3s so am not aware of tagging issues with other encoding formats.

And a little request to xvisfun1 to use paragraphs when he feels like posting lots of stuff, as its easier to read.

[IanG]

I'd be in favor of a new forum, maybe something like "Tips and Tricks" where folks could share their methods of getting the most out of MC. If there needed to be a video clip to illustrate something and the contributor was willing, cool. Otherwise, telling what and how should be enough.

I'm not sure it warrants its own forum, but how about something like Jim H's "Weird and Wonderful" thread?  If the mods feel that a contribution to a MC forum is suitable they can cross post it to a "Hints and Tips" thread. And make them both sticky!

Ian G.

[GHammer]

I'd be in favor of a new forum, maybe something like "Tips and Tricks" where folks could share their methods of getting the most out of MC. If there needed to be a video clip to illustrate something and the contributor was willing, cool. Otherwise, telling what and how should be enough.

I'm not sure it warrants its own forum, but how about something like Jim H's "Weird and Wonderful" thread?  If the mods feel that a contribution to a MC forum is suitable they can cross post it to a "Hints and Tips" thread. And make them both sticky!

Ian G.

Works for me. I just meant that there should be a place that would be easy to find that would have tips and tricks in it. A sticky thread would do that.

[hit_ny]

A wiki would be appropriate i think..and this idea has been brought quite a few times b4.

[GHammer]

A wiki would be appropriate i think..and this idea has been brought quite a few times b4.

Personally I find little use for wikis or blogs. Never very well laid out. Maybe I just visit the wrong ones...

[kaiynne]

I think a tips and tricks forum is exactly what is needed.

great idea!

[TimB]

With screenshots so I can say "how the heck did they do that?", I'm sure my MC screen is very pedestrian compared to some of you aces!

-=Tim=-

[bebop]

Yup, add my vote for a tips and tricks page!

 I have learned how to change my avatar, how to post pics and point to links, clean out a nasty bug from my system, find and get rid of seemilgly undeletable folders  and even went so bold as to actually try windowblinds, make my self and my family a web site to share pics  and start setting up my Home Theatre PC because there have been people willing to explain the ins and outs of it all and share their experiences with a newbie.

   Sometimes doing a search on the entire fourm doesn't bring up the interesting tweaks that all these most excellent techies have to offer, so a separate tips, tweaks and cool stuff forum would be a really nice addition for those of us less talented or just too plain scared to ask for help with what might appear to be the simple stuff.  

PS  Thanks again for all the help that I have recieved - i have learnt more in this past year by being a part of this group, than in the last five on my own.  

[xsivfun1]

I definately want to throw my hat in the with the "tips & tricks" idea as I have no idea what  "wikis" or "blogs (word of the year I read)" are, but I am ultimately on board with any endeaver aimed at helping people use MC to it's full potential.  

[adamsp70]

as I have no idea what  "wikis" or "blogs (word of the year I read)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Just remember that just because someone has written it down, it doesn't mean it's true!

Blogs are not appropriate for what you're after here...

[xsivfun1]

Thank you for the wiki info.  That sounds like a good soloution, but I still leave it up to those more competant to make the final decision.  

Also, I didn't mean to position blogs as a solution when I used the quote, especially since I don't know what one is, I was, perhaps stupidly, just trying to show that I am trying to learn about them.  After reading what I wrote again, I see that I was very unclear.   In any case, your point is still very well taken and will try to keep that in mind going forward.  

Lastly, I tried doing a search on "blogs" at the link you gave for wikis.  I din't really expect an answer from the site given it's name, but it redirect me to some info about them being weblogs.  Is that what "blogs" are?

[Quisp]

What are some specific tutorials you'd like to see?

[john h]

Wow, what a great idea!  I've been using MC and, before that, MJ, for several years, ever since reading about it on CNET.  There are a ton of things I'd like to do that I know MC can accomplish very easily, but finding out how to do it is actually kind of hard for someone like me who is not so computer literate and doesn't have much time away from the office and kids.  I can say from experience that the people from the company who monitor these boards are very responsive to individual problems. However, sometimes I feel too much like a dummy to ask how to do something that apparently is kind of easy to everyone else.

I think that a tips and tricks board would be great, with a collection of the better postings kept "sticky" at the top.  I read these boards from time to time and know there are people out there who are very good at using MC and would be able to share their experiences.  It is perfect for this product, which has a very nice community feel and active corporate support. 

The problem, of course, would be to make sure that their "how-tos" are simple and easy to follow.  This could be accomplished by allowing the author to edit the original post based on some of the feedback and follow-up questions.

Some examples of topics I would like to see:

(a) how to normalize the songs so they all play at the same volume
(b) what are the best methods to rip CDs, and which encoders are better for whatever reasons
(c) what do you do when you select a radio station from the list generated by MC and you get some strange error messages, or it won't play (plus how about some tips and tricks for finding the best stations?)
(d) what successes have people had to stream audio to their stereo receiver, including and other than the Tivo (I just got things connected to tivo, and it's pretty cool)
(e) once one figures out how to play one's own music collection, what else can you do with MC?  How do you use it to play video, or record television? 

This would be such an interesting feature.  I hope someone runs with it.  Good luck, and thanks!