Topic: Still no Ipod joy with 161... (Read 5722 times)

sirshambling · « **on:** December 23, 2004, 10:01:55 am »

Sadly I'm still having bad synch problems.

I've even initialised the Ipod (a REAL PAIN/ waste of time etc etc) and synched a playlist - fine.

Change the contents of the playlist in MC and re-synch and the playlist in the Ipod remains the same - no new files added, no files deleted.

Not a happy bunny!

John

sirshambling · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2004, 10:31:54 am »

A few odd things...

1. R/Clicking "synch" on the Ipod brings up a main window in MC that becomes labelled "handheld_staus_info" during the synch process (the windows show the same info). This has all the files on the Ipod shown in their Ipod Control folders plus a duplicate entry of all the same files with their HDD location - these are shown as "in queue" "Ipod/".

2. I get no "synching info to MC" message even though that's checked in "options".

3. I get no "synching playlists" messages at the end of the synch like I used to.

4. The figures on the synch small window showing available Ipod space are always different from the space shown in the main MC window when the Ipod is selected.

Baffled now!

John

SteveG · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2004, 11:50:15 am »

John,

162 is on its way in about 20 minutes. When it comes out, please get it, reintialize and start interacting with it slowly. Create one playlist with 10 tracks. Sync it. Add 10 more tracks to the same playlist. Sync it. Etc. I will check on your progress later.

Steve

sirshambling · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2004, 12:07:59 pm »

Thanks very much Steve.

D/loading now - will report back.

sirshambling · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:24:18 pm »

Steve,

Well not really any good news sadly.

The Ipod was recognised OK and I "agreed" to use it as a music player.

The initialisation went fine.

R/clicking on the Ipod and selecting "synch" caused 100% CPU for about 30seconds before I gave up and rebooted the PC - MC was "not responding" all this time in Task Manager.

After starting MC again I tried the "handheld" icon in AW and went to synch. This caused 100% for about 5 seconds (also showing as "not responding" during this time) then the correct listing of playlists appeared. I synched 1 playlist of 10 songs fine, added 10 more to the playlist and tried to synch again but no new songs were added to the Ipod. Also no "synching info to MC" or "synching playlists" messages either.

No change from before I'm afraid.

John.

SteveG · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:00:22 pm »

Can anyone else confirm anything like what John is reporting?

Steve

sirshambling · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2004, 02:09:45 am »

Steve,

Nobody else has sadi anything so I thought I'd try updating MC11 on my other PC to 162 and see if that works any better.

First of all I do get the "synching info to MC" message but the results don't seem to be accurrate - the last track I played has not gone through.

Second I still get heavy CPU usage (around 50% for about 5 seconds on R/Clicking the Ipod and choosing "synch") - the message being displayed at the foot of MC 11 is about the "list style" - but Task manager does not say MC is "not responding".

I added a file to a playlist and that went fine, I added a new playlist and that went fine, but changing a playlists contents completely had no effect at all - as though MC didn't recognise the changes. The new playlist has 148 tracks, the old one 178 and after running synch a couple of times I've still got the 178 playlist on the Ipod.

Using the AW is quicker, but still CPU intensive, same "list style" message, same problems with playlists as above.

Both ways of synching show completley different figures about available space on the Ipod in the AW and in the main MC window at the bottom.

So there are some differences between the way MC behaves on my 2 PCs but the essential trouble remains the same sadly.

Hope this is of some use.

Happy festive season and thanks very much for all your efforts.

John

wizbang · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2004, 06:32:53 am »

Steve,

I get the same results as sirshambling.

I get 100% CPU usage for about 1-2mins when I click on Synchronise or the iPod icon in Drives and Devices. It eventually comes back, but the synchronise did not move any new tracks onto the iPod and all my playlists are empty.

I then re-initialised my iPod and things went alot better. I still get the 100% CPU usage, but I was able to syncronise my iPod and place all the tracks on it.

Subsequent attempts at synchronisation still have a period of 80 to 100% CPU usage and every now and again show that I have -27Gbytes of space available!

I am also finding that any changes I make to the playlists do not seem to have any effect. I use the Larry Little method of determining what files to synchronise and when I exclude a set of files and re-synchronise they are still left on the iPod

For information: I updated my iPod to 3.0.2 around the same time as all these nasties started happening with MC 11. Is this coincidence or have other users just upgraded too???

wizbang · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2004, 08:24:37 am »

Another thing I've just noticed is that the "Eject iPod" option no longer works.

If I select "Eject iPod" the screen just refreshs, but the iPod stays connected.

kpod · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2004, 08:49:13 am »

Steve,
my 40 GB photo ipod was initialized with 11.140 and still syncs fine with a library maintained exactly with that release.

Meanwhile I tried .149, .160 and .162 with the same effects:
The ipod was not recognized anymore (no difference if connected before or after MC start). Message 'Handheld not valid' or something like that.

Updating to .162 had the additional nasty effect that all filter attributes of each of my approx. 100 smartlists were eliminated.

Reinstalling .140 over the current made the ipod visible again but led to the '-nnn GB available' statement at the bottum of the Action window. Only an additional restoring of the last .140 library backup reanimates the ipod sync feature on my PC.

I'm really glad I followed your recommendation and made a habit to backup the setup and the library with a working realease just before the next update action.

Klaus

SteveG · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2004, 09:42:55 am »

kpod, wizbang and john,

Try the following...

1) Disconnect iPod and go to Tools->Options->Handheld and click on 'Reset detected devices' and make sure 'Delete unselected files during sync' is checked.

2) Connect iPod. Answer 'Yes' to whether you want the PC to recognize the iPod as a device.

Test sync and eject. When you 'eject' physically remove the iPod from the cable or dock. Without this, it does not actually notify the PC it is gone even though the screen changes.

In regards to synching, if you do not have 'Delete unselected...' checked, MC does not remove files that are on the iPod and instead keeps adding new ones.

Steve

sirshambling · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2004, 12:02:36 pm »

Well Steve,

Followed your suggestions to the letter - very interesting.

1. After I clicked on "reset detected devices" the Ipod was not recognised again - although the Nero Fast Burn plug in was!
2. The "delete unslelected..." was definitely checked and I R/clicked on the Ipod and clicked "synch" - massive CPU usage for about 20 seconds during which the message was "applying list styles" - then the usual list of playlists appeared. Moving and clicking on the lists produced the same massive CPU usage for a second or two during which time MC froze. At the end of this the "amount free" in the AW looked about right.
3. The synch went fine - new files added, some files removed, but the playlist which I changed the files in completely was very odd. The new files were added but the old files were not deleted so from a playlist on the Ipod of 58 files, and the new list of 62 I ended up with a playlist of 120 on the Ipod.

I think some progress has been made!

John

wizbang · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2004, 12:58:48 pm »

Steve,

After resetting, I now find that when I try to synchronise the CPU goes to 100% and just stays there. I have killed off the MC process and started it again, but the same thing happens.

I can't seem to synchronise at all now

kpod · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2004, 04:52:32 pm »

Steve,
followed your instructions - here the results:
- ipod recognition confirmed (Nero Fast Burn, too - but not confirmed)
- sync without playlist changes - ok
- disconnected
- connected again
- changed * rating (argument in most of my smartlists)
- addet a new fixed playlist
- synced again
- new playlist found it's way to the ipod as well as the rating changes , too
- not ok: rating change did not effect the way the smartlists transport their content to the ipod (e.g. 4* rating stayed in 'Unrated' SL on ipod)

Strange that the last time I installed .162 all my smartlists lost their arguments. This time they seem ok.

Thanks,
Klaus

SteveG · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:44:08 pm »

Everyone,

After doing the 'Reset detected devices' you will need to answer the dialogues regarding whether you want MC to recognize particular devices for all your reconnected devices.

John,

Quote

3. The synch went fine - new files added, some files removed, but the playlist which I changed the files in completely was very odd. The new files were added but the old files were not deleted so from a playlist on the Ipod of 58 files, and the new list of 62 I ended up with a playlist of 120 on the Ipod.

Is this a playlist or a smartlist? If a smartlist, are the filecounts moving around in MC when you reselect it?

Wizbang,

Can you rebuild or reinitialize the iPod?

Klaus,

Quote

not ok: rating change did not effect the way the smartlists transport their content to the ipod (e.g. 4* rating stayed in 'Unrated' SL on ipod)

Are you saying after a sync, ratings are changed in MC and the smartlists are updated in MC (if you click on the 4* rating smartlist in MC, the updated iPod files are included( but if you sync the contents of that smartlist are not updated on iPod? Do you have 'Delete unselected files from iPod' checked?

Steve

sirshambling · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:53:21 pm »

Steve,

It's a playlist called "weekly selection" which I manually populate from 2 smartlists after deleting all the "old" tracks.

John.

kpod · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2004, 05:55:15 am »

Quote from: SteveG on December 27, 2004, 04:44:08 pm

Klaus,
Are you saying after a sync, ratings are changed in MC and the smartlists are updated in MC (if you click on the 4* rating smartlist in MC, the updated iPod files are included( but if you sync the contents of that smartlist are not updated on iPod? Do you have 'Delete unselected files from iPod' checked?

Steve,
pardon for beeing unprecize: I changed a rating in MC. I changed nothing on the iPod. The rating change to 4* brings the song correctly into an existing 4* smartlist within MC. Syncing updates the rating on iPod, too. What did not work with .162 was the update of the playlist on iPod which corresponds to the MC 4* smartlist. (works well up to .140). 'Delete unselected files from iPod' is always checked.

Hope this helps.

Klaus

SteveG · « **Reply #17 on:** December 31, 2004, 07:33:59 am »

John and Klaus,

If you delete the playlist from iPod (right click on it in the tree and select 'delete') and resync, does the playlist sync correctly?

I will try to replicate what you are reporting on Monday when I am back.

Steve

sirshambling · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2005, 03:31:49 am »

Steve,

Yes that does work for me - if I R/click the Ipod but not if I use the handheld icon in the AW. That doesn't seem to work at all.

Spent an hour trying out various combinations of things. A few conclusions:-

1. Handheld in AW doesn't work at all well - didn't find a file I'd manually deleted needing to be re-synched or a changed playlist.
2. Despite several goes my Ipod still not Re-recognised no matter how many times I click reset in options.
3. R/clicking Ipod and synching updates info to MC correctly.
4. I only get the "synching playlists" message the first time I synch - have to eject and reconnect to get it again.
5. Actually synching playlists works better the first time I try it - works well again if I eject and recoonect.

Hope these help a bit. Good luck and Happy New Year!

John.

kpod · « **Reply #19 on:** January 02, 2005, 04:00:16 am »

Steve,
after manual deletion of the corresponding iPod playlists (and only then) the smartlists actually sync correctly. Means I would have to delete the iPod pl before every sync attempt.

As well as John I had the problem that I needed around 3 attempts to get the iPod rerecognized after reset. What actually was recognized every time was the Nero Fast CD-Burning Plugin that comes with Nero 6 (of course I clicked the NO button for that virtual Nero drive).

On the other hand I did not experience any difference wether I sync by right-click in the tree or by pushing the button in the Action Window.

Btw a healthy, lucky and successfull 2005!

Klaus

benrad · « **Reply #20 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:10:13 pm »

I connected my iPod tonight to sync, after removing/adding a bunch of songs from my iPod sync list in MC. MC is doing the same thing it was doing before. It's ignoring the existing music, and trying to sync all of the same files onto the iPod, and telling me that I'm 15 GB over limit. I can't keep initializing my iPod every time I synch it up.

The only thing I can think of is that I transfered some music to my iPod using iTunes (music I had purchased from the iTunes store), and maybe this screwed it up.

Any ideas?

benrad · « **Reply #21 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:15:52 pm »

I just plugged in my GF's iPod to sync (which I successfully syched the other night, using MC1162), and MC did not recognize the device. I had to hit the OK button, and MC had to "collect information" about the iPod. What the dilly?

SteveG · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2005, 01:25:45 pm »

benrad,

Quote

I just plugged in my GF's iPod to sync (which I successfully syched the other night, using MC1162), and MC did not recognize the device.

Try going to Tools->Options->Handheld->Resetdetected devices? and click 'Reset'. Then close and reopen MC and see if it is recognized.

Quote

I had to hit the OK button, and MC had to "collect information" about the iPod. What the dilly?

If it was not recognized, I do not follow this.

John and benrad,

In regards to playlists not having the correct files, I just modified something that should solve this and there are additional improvements in the next build which should also make this better in the next build.

sirshambling · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2005, 01:33:02 pm »

Thanks very much as always Steve.

I'll watch out for the build and report back after testing.

John.

benrad · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2005, 01:59:04 pm »

Quote

Try going to Tools->Options->Handheld->Resetdetected devices? and click 'Reset'. Then close and reopen MC and see if it is recognized.

I had already done this previously, with the same iPod. I connected the same iPod, the next day, and it asked me to identify the device again.

SteveG · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2005, 03:01:21 pm »

benrad,

I just added some additional code to fully clean the registry in regards to this. After doing a reset in the next build, you should be asked to detect the device one time and then you should not be asked again.

Steve

benrad · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2005, 06:14:04 am »

Everybody. I was dumb, and rushed into testing 164 last night. Everything looked fine, but it's still not working. Had to do a restore this morning.

After synching last night I was only able to access the music on the iPod through "Songs." "Artists" & "Albums" only produced about 10 to 15 artists/albums (I have about 150+ artists on the iPod).

iTunes crashes when the iPod is attached (MC is not running and the iPod had already been synched using MC).

SteveG · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2005, 11:10:14 am »

benrad,

I posted a response on the main MC thread in regards to this. Can you reinitialize and then stay away from iTunes and see if everything works as expected?

Steve

benrad · « **Reply #28 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:35:54 pm »

Should I reinitialize using the Apple installer or MC?

benrad · « **Reply #29 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:39:00 pm »

Also, you recommend not using iTunes along with MC (for obvious reasons). However, I distincly remember being able to do this with MC 10, and what are our options in terms of transferring m4a files using MC, other than creating a CD from the files and then ripping them as mp3s?

Thanks.

sirshambling · « **Reply #30 on:** January 05, 2005, 12:56:29 pm »

The "coal face" reports:-

1. The Ipod was "recognised" as a new device - fine.
2. R/clicking on the Ipod in the tree produced 2 mins of 100% CPU activity, 25secs in I got the "synching info to MC" message, then at the foot of the main window I got "applying list styles", and then nothing except the wrong number of songs on the Ipod (looked like all the existing plus everything that was going to be synched - roughly double the number of the correct number of songs), but the right space and available space, plus the "slider" at the right of the main window was stuttering up and down the whole pane. I ended this with Task Manager after the 2 mins.
3. Next go - clicking on "handheld" in AW and then "synch" produced 25 secs of 100% CPU and then the "synching info to MC" message, then I got the "transfer" option and the synch went fine. Except that I didn't get the "synching playlists" message at all, but the plylists seem to have been synched fine. I'll check what's actually on the Ipod later.
4. Theother thing I noticed was that while the "last played" column in MC was updated correctly, the "number plays" column was not updated at all.

Hope this helps.

John

benrad · « **Reply #31 on:** January 05, 2005, 01:02:15 pm »

Quote from: sirshambling on January 05, 2005, 12:56:29 pm

plus the "slider" at the right of the main window was stuttering up and down the whole pane.

If been getting this as well. It stops after about 4 - 5 minutes, and I believe I saw "updating tags" at the bottom of MC pulsing, so I assumed this is what was going on. Although I'm not sure what for.

kpod · « **Reply #32 on:** January 05, 2005, 01:20:38 pm »

Steve,
experienced nearly the same behavior as John - with one additional challenge: After reset and rerecognize I decided to initialize my iPod. In around 40 minutes all of the 3600 songs were synced again - but not the playlists themselves.

The around 100 playlists to be synced are all smartlists organized beyond one playlist group. Created a new standard (not smart) playlist. This was not synced either.

Klaus

SteveG · « **Reply #33 on:** January 06, 2005, 02:40:43 pm »

benrad,

Quote

Should I reinitialize using the Apple installer or MC?

MC.

Quote

Also, you recommend not using iTunes along with MC (for obvious reasons). However, I distincly remember being able to do this with MC 10, and what are our options in terms of transferring m4a files using MC, other than creating a CD from the files and then ripping them as mp3s?

MC is not 100% compatible with iTunes and never has been. In regards to m4a, you can transfer these files from MC to iPod without doing any conversion.

John,

Quote

R/clicking on the Ipod in the tree produced 2 mins of 100% CPU activity, 25secs in I got the "synching info to MC" message,

After the first 25 seconds MC was synching information from iPod to MC. You did not see this delay in step three because it was already synchronized from step 1.

Quote

4. Theother thing I noticed was that while the "last played" column in MC was updated correctly, the "number plays" column was not updated at all.

I can not duplicate this. Either both last played and number played should update or neither. The only way that I can explain number played not updating is that iPod did not register that the file was played.

John, Klaus and Benrad,

The recent changes I made to fix playlist population did not get merged properly in the last build. The next build should have them. I can duplicate Klaus' issue with 166 but not with the 'correct' code which will be in the next build. Please try again after the next build.

benrad · « **Reply #34 on:** January 06, 2005, 04:15:02 pm »

Quote

In regards to m4a, you can transfer these files from MC to iPod without doing any conversion.

Actually, I meant to say m4p files. I think I remember not being able to transfer them using MC because of security reasons. I guess I'll test it out tonight.

Ben

sirshambling · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:11:55 am »

Steve,

Because of the "tools/Options" crash issue with build 167 I wasn't able to reset the Ipod but went ahead with a synch anyway.

Basically the same as build 166 - synching by R/clicking on Ipod in the tree didn't work - using "handheld" in the AW did. Same timing/CPU issues.

Also info on "number plays" is definitley NOT being updated via the "synch to MC" process even though "last played" is. I have the correct list of songs I listened to yesterday showing in Media Library sorted by "Last played" but almost all of them are showing a blank in the "number played" column. Also I have a smartlist which generates songs which haven't been played yet - trying that this morning produced a list including a song I'd hear yesterday!

I see from another thread in the General section that others are having problems with the "number played" column not via Ipod but ordinarily. Are the 2 issues linked?

Keep going! John.

SteveG · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2005, 08:51:54 am »

Ben,

m4p should work. If you have trouble playing them on iPod, you may need to transfer one m4p one time using iTunes ( to put some licensing info on iPod) and then you will not need to do this again unless you fully reformat (not reinitialize) your iPod.

John,

Can you reinitialize your iPod and then sync one playlist of 100 files to your iPod using the right click sync? After doing this, play 10 files and resync and post the results.

Thanks,

Steve

benrad · « **Reply #37 on:** January 10, 2005, 10:23:35 pm »

More iPod problems. I've been synching my own (3G) iPod with minimal problems. However, when attempting to sync my girlfriend's (4G) iPod, problems abound. I've followed everything that was recommended before (reset devices, intialized, etc.) and it still acts very odd. When I go to synchronize a simple 10 track playlist, MC syncs fine, and it looks fine in the normal iPod tree view. However, when I try to sync again, and add a playlist, MC tells me the iPod has only 1 GB left (in the synchronization box, in the queue display, it says there are 18 GB free). So something is not connecting between the sync process and the actual file information on the iPod.

MC also shows tracks that are already on the iPod as "in queue" right next to the existing tracks, and I've made no changes to the tracks, that would warrant them being copied over again.

I'm using build 168, btw.

Does this make sense?

SteveG · « **Reply #38 on:** January 11, 2005, 10:10:46 am »

Ben,

On your girlfiend's iPod you synched one playlists of 10 files and it was fine. You added a playlist. How many files were in the added playlist? Assuming that it was not a huge playlist, try adding a small playlist of 10 to 100 files. Does it work as expected?

Steve

benrad · « **Reply #39 on:** January 11, 2005, 10:22:46 am »

Oddly enough, I disconnected her iPod after I posted last night, restarted MC (which I had done about 5 times before), reconnected her iPod, and it worked as it was supposed to. I guess the iPod just decided to spit out whatever remnants where on there. Who knows? Thanks.

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Author Topic: Still no Ipod joy with 161... (Read 5722 times)

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