Topic: Is Disc# a standard WMA/MP3 tag? (Read 9087 times)

rpalmer68 · « **on:** February 12, 2005, 06:56:22 pm »

Hi Folks,

For those that are more clued up on tagging.....

Is the Disc# tag a standard MP3 / WMA tag, that other apps should recognise?

I'm trying to store all my multiple disc albums so that they are treated as one album for playback by not having the disc number in the album name but by using disc# instead.

I have ripped everything as WMA lossless, with a few MP3s for stuff I've downloaded.

This seems to be working within MC11, but on my squeezebox it doesn't recognise the disc# tag so isn't displaing all the tracks. It used to work when I was using iTunes and tagged multi-disc albums with iTunes, but no longer works for new albums ripped in MC11. Mp3's that were tagged with iTunes still show up on the squeezebox as Disc 1/Disc 2, but files tagged using the MC Disc# tag don't get recognised as 2 discs on the squeezebox.

Any suggestions?
Thanks
Richard

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2005, 07:38:22 pm »

Quote

Is the Disc# tag a standard MP3 / WMA tag, that other apps should recognise?

no such monster

www.id3.org

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2005, 08:49:33 pm »

Thanks King,

Not exactly what I wanted to hear! (But that's not your fault)

I downloaded Tag&Rename and it has Disc # as a field for ID3V2 and WMA files.

When I view files ripped/tagged with iTunes that I have set a Disc # with, this field is populated in Tag&Rename. If I view a file ripped/tagged with MC11 Tag&Rename doesn't see the field populated although MC does.

Likewise if I import an MP3 file into MC11 with Disc # set (and seen in Tag&Rename) MC11 doesn't recognise the Disc # field.

Is MC only storing the info in it's library or is/should it be tagging the actual file?

I also note that iTunes, Slimserver and Tag&Rename support the disc # field as either an integer ("1" or "2" etc) or in the format "1/2" meaing disc 1 of 2.

Cheers
Richard

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2005, 09:20:47 pm »

King,

From reading the info from your web link the ID3V2.3.0 spec has the following:

TPOS
The 'Part of a set' frame is a numeric string that describes which part of a set the audio came from. This frame is used if the source described in the "TALB" frame is divided into several mediums, e.g. a double CD. The value may be extended with a "/" character and a numeric string containing the total number of parts in the set. E.g. "1/2".

Isn't this where the Disc # should populate? I asume this is what iTumes & Tag&Rename are using.

Richard

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2005, 09:39:42 am »

maybe, i was looking for disk# when i did a search

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2005, 09:17:27 pm »

JimH or somebody else in the MC11 developemnt team,

Should Disc # under MC11 be working using TPOS TAG as per the spec for ID3V2.3.0?

I.e. Is it a bug or is it by design that it doesn't currently appear to work this way?

Thanks
Richard

modelmaker · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2005, 10:20:03 pm »

I don't know if this is still an option in v11, but in earlier versions of MC you have to activate "update tag info when info changes" , then in library tools you can update tags from library.

However one of the great features of storing music on a hard drive, you can archive and play music as the artists intended and are not limited by how much data a disc can hold, (this was true of reel-to-reel tapes as well).

You can drop the disc number(s) altogther and just renumber the songs from the additional disc(s). And this also solves the problem of other players recognizing (or not) disc numbers.

Isn't it time to free yourself of some of the limitations that the record industry has foist upon us due to the technical limitations of their media?!!

hit_ny · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2005, 01:52:06 am »

Quote from: modelmaker on February 13, 2005, 10:20:03 pm

I don't know if this is still an option in v11, but in earlier versions of MC you have to activate "update tag info when info changes" , then in library tools you can update tags from library.

However one of the great features of storing music on a hard drive, you can archive and play music as the artists intended and are not limited by how much data a disc can hold, (this was true of reel-to-reel tapes as well).

Yep this was my thought as well. is the tag set.

Quote from: modelmaker on February 13, 2005, 10:20:03 pm

You can drop the disc number(s) altogther and just renumber the songs from the additional disc(s). And this also solves the problem of other players recognizing (or not) disc numbers.

Isn't it time to free yourself of some of the limitations that the record industry has foist upon us due to the technical limitations of their media?!!

The Disc# helps to sort out tracks by disc for multii-box sets. so u dont see all track 1's 2's etc consecutively in the list.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2005, 06:49:30 am »

Quote from: modelmaker on February 13, 2005, 10:20:03 pm

I don't know if this is still an option in v11, but in earlier versions of MC you have to activate "update tag info when info changes" , then in library tools you can update tags from library.

Yes this is set in MC. From what I can see the Disc # is being stored in the library, but not written to the correct Tag in the MP3 file.

Quote from: modelmaker on February 13, 2005, 10:20:03 pm

You can drop the disc number(s) altogther and just renumber the songs from the additional disc(s). And this also solves the problem of other players recognizing (or not) disc numbers.

Isn't it time to free yourself of some of the limitations that the record industry has foist upon us due to the technical limitations of their media?!!

Good point, I might just do this as there is really no reason to have disc 1 and disc 2 on an ipod etc.

Cheers
Richard

GHammer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2005, 08:14:12 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on February 14, 2005, 01:52:06 am

Yep this was my thought as well. is the tag set.

The Disc# helps to sort out tracks by disc for multii-box sets. so u dont see all track 1's 2's etc consecutively in the list.

If CD1 ends on track 19, make track 1 from CD2 track 20. No Track 1/Track 1 and you can still listen to the multiCD set in order, if there is any reason to do so.

Alex B · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2005, 09:42:40 am »

I have used continuous track numbering for a long time. I have many albums that have e.g. 50 or 60 tracks. It works well for example with compilation albums. Sometimes artists make the individual CDs in a multi-disk album separate artistic pieces and that should be taken in account. I have previously used the "comment" or "album name" field for that. On the other hand, the comment field might be needed for some other information and it is not good to split an album by using more than one album name. The disk number field is good for indicating separate disks. I have also made a third field called "Disc Track #" which shows the original numbering. I copy the track number field there before altering the original numbering.

However, there is no excuse for not using the ID3v2.3 (or 2.4) tagging standard if possible. For MP3 tagging it is the only standard we have and it is likely that hardware devices support it to some extend.

iTunes, Tag&Rename and some other programs use the TPOS tag for disc numbering. TPOS have been around from the year 1999 and MC should be changed to use it. Also the other ID3v2.x tags could be checked at the same time. I think that some of the fields are unnecessarily using proprietary tagging. MC11 is at beta stage and changes in this should be possible.

GHammer · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2005, 11:41:46 am »

Oh, I agree wholly with the idea that if there is a defined tag then MC ought to use it instead of using the comment field or making up tags.

And yes, this would be as good a time as any to do tag cleaning. Maybe even look at using ID3V2.4

modelmaker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2005, 02:23:44 pm »

With compilation albums (& box sets), I use AMG and other sources to rename and renumber tracks to the way they were originally released. For tracks that were previously unreleased, they get tagged for their position in the compilation (no disc #).

For duplicate songs by an artists, I pick the best technical version, (remastered vs original release, higher bitrate, etc), the other gets deleted from the library, (but not the HD - just in case).

In general I don't like compilation albums, (they're usually somebody elses idea of a playlist- I make my own), except to use as sources to fill in gaps in my library or to replace technically inferior tracks. There are obviously some exceptions. My system of catalogging is not perfect, but it mostly works for me.

unrealreality · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2005, 12:09:47 am »

For multi-disk sets, I used to use 101, 102, 103, 201, 202, 301, 302 so that the first number was the disc and the rest was the track. I liked this in case I wanted to know where the breaks were for the CD's. Lately though I've just done the consecutive numbering. Of course now I have a mix of both and I'm too lazy to change the old ones.

One reason why I also switched was that ID3 v1 tags wouldn't recognize anything above the 200's or so. So my disc 3 would always be renumbered weird stuff. the only time this mattered was when I used winamp as winamp takes the V1 over V2 if it finds both. At least it did that with me. Since then I strip all my ID3 v1 tags (they're useless anyways). I moved over to media center and have no problems at all anymore.

Eric

GHammer · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2005, 11:24:44 pm »

You know, it would be cool if MC could implement ID3V2.4
It would also kinda lock you into MC because not many others do V2.4
But a price I'd pay.

http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames.txt

hit_ny · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2005, 02:21:26 am »

That doc is a spec.

What advantage(s) does ID3V2.4 offer over the current ID3V2 tags that are the default in MC ?

i recall also hearing about some APE tagging version for mp3s as well.

GHammer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2005, 04:30:44 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on February 16, 2005, 02:21:26 am

That doc is a spec.

What advantage(s) does ID3V2.4 offer over the current ID3V2 tags that are the default in MC ?

i recall also hearing about some APE tagging version for mp3s as well.

What advantage would it offer? Well, compare the two. There are many in my opinion.

APE tags are for APE files. They definitely are not supported in many players or devices.

V2.4 at least there is a fighting chance simply because it is the standard for MP3s, not a grafted tag.

SurFan · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2005, 05:53:18 am »

Hi,

IIRC, MediaCenter stores custom fields and some of it's own fields as custom Tags "TXXX" with the name "MediaJukebox_<Fieldname>", so that these Fields are vot visible in most foreign apps.

Ralph

qwert73 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2005, 04:46:23 pm »

Hello people!

I know that i`m going to repeat myself!

Why is it necessary that the files are tagged in such a way? I use also foobar and other applications; but that means that importing of files that already contain tags doesn't include that Mc take the tags in the library and that is very annoying. On the other hand tagging in Mc means that my files contain more frames than necessary.
I think the best solution is: Stop writing "Media Jukebox versionnumber" before the fieldname and put a simple checkbox in the library options where i can decide where a tag is written ( everybody of us can decide if it schould be the Commentfield, a predefined frame ore the userdefined frame TXXX)
The best solution so far is to avoid that MC write tags for special fields.

dcwebman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2005, 08:14:15 am »

Did this ever get resolved how the disc number was stored in the file or not? I'm going through a cleanup of my library and am now at the point to decide what to do with multi-disc sets. I want to keep them just as they were and not renumber the tracks, sorry. So it looks like my only options are the disc# field and to add to the name of the album (i.e. 1 of 2) but I don't really want to do the latter. I don't plan on switching from MC but would like to know the disc# field is standard among other tools.

dcwebman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2005, 02:27:55 pm »

Bump. All right, let me rephrase the question. What is the "standard" way to handle multiple discs? Should we use the disc field, rename the album with (x of x), some other way?

Alex B · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2005, 03:22:58 pm »

I don't think there is any standard way. Some programs have functions for it, many don't have.

This is the system I mentioned earlier:

I renumber my multi-disc albums, but before that I copy the original track numbers to a custom field and rename the files. If I ever have to change my filing system I'll have all information available.

dcwebman · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2005, 07:57:17 pm »

Thanks for the reply Alex. I like your system and think I will adopt the same way. Thanks again.
Jeff

Fex · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2005, 08:32:57 pm »

Don't understand the problem.

Why does anyone wants to limit him/herself to disc # ?!?

Remembers me of my good old vinyls. Had to change the sides every 4-5 tracks.

dcwebman · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2005, 08:44:38 am »

Quote from: Fex on May 21, 2005, 08:32:57 pm

Why does anyone wants to limit him/herself to disc # ?!?

Burning the CD's again without having to figure out what songs fit on a disc?

Galley · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:56:48 am »

iTunes does it best. It names the files:
1-01 Track Name.m4a
1-02 Track Name.m4a
1-03 Track Name.m4a
1-04 Track Name.m4a
2-01 Track Name.m4a
2-01 Track Name.m4a
2-01 Track Name.m4a
2-01 Track Name.m4a

Galley · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2005, 12:32:10 am »

Tag&Rename supports both disc number and rating for .m4a AAC files. Are those not standard tags? ?

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Author Topic: Is Disc# a standard WMA/MP3 tag? (Read 9087 times)