Topic: PLaylists Cleared on iPod (Read 7206 times)

BlueGlow · « **on:** February 25, 2005, 12:28:30 pm »

MC 11.0.198
I sync as usual, songs transfer ok with normal duplicates message, no other error messages. On the iPod there is only one blank playlist and the built-in on-the-go playlist.
This started happening off an on a few days ago with .196. Now it's happening all the time with .198.

I have tried resetting the iPod, changing playlists, adding playlists, deleting playlists with a sync between operations but the behavior doesn't change and the playlists don't make it to the iPod.

It looks like I'm going to have to initialize the iPod do another 1 1/2 hour sync. Any other suggestions? Any idea why this may be happening?

BlueGlow · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2005, 11:12:29 am »

I initialized the iPod and re-synched and now everything is working again.

SteveG · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2005, 12:42:25 pm »

Thanks for the reply.

Catul · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2005, 10:01:05 am »

I just had this happen to me as well. I'm using .201, have been syncing to my iPod successfully for the most part, just did it last night (picked only specific playlists to sync, as usual) and when I went to play stuff this morning all the playlists were cleared and only the default "On-the-Go" one is available. Very strange - bet if I just resync later tonight the playlists will be back. This is a very intermittent and annoying problem

BlueGlow · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2005, 11:56:25 am »

Hi Catul,
Did you have any duplicate files, missing files or file transfer errors? These don't seem to be related but I'm curious.

Catul · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2005, 01:36:31 pm »

Quote from: BlueGlow on March 03, 2005, 11:56:25 am

Did you have any duplicate files, missing files or file transfer errors? These don't seem to be related but I'm curious.

Yes, my .mpc files don't transfer and I get errors to that effect at the end of each sync. I haven't enabled the File Conversion option on syncing because it hangs every time - I believe the MP3 encoder isn't installed or available for some reason (any ideas on this issue?).

You don't think there's a relation here? FWIW, I did another sync last night, same settings/options/playlists as the previous time, and all my playlists show up fine on the iPod. As expected ...

BlueGlow · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2005, 04:54:12 pm »

Only Steve knows if it's related, but I think my playlist problem started when I had some missing files. Since the problem isn't consistent I can't really tell. I have taken two precautions that I try to do before every sync.
1. Delete any missing file entries from the libary.
I run this smartlist and then delete any entries returned:
[=FileExists([Filename])]=0 ~sort=[filename]
2. Make sure all playlists synched to my handheld are Audio Only
I add "Audio Only" to the end of every sync'd playlist.

I have missing files every day now due to using DopplerRadio to download podcasts, automatically import them into MC, then it automatically deletes old podcasts.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2005, 10:59:05 pm »

Hi Steve,
Playlists were cleared again after a normal seeming sync last night with 198. This morning I upgraded to 205 and tried syncing again and then adding playlists and re-syncing, but playlists were still empty. I initialized my iPod and re-synched (1.5 hours) and the playlists are back. BTW, after I initialized I had to quit and restart MC before it would correctly calculate remaining space on the iPod. After an init it seems to behave as some huge number of songs will be sent even when no playlists are selected and I couldn't get it to calc correctly. I'd seen this bug in previous versions but didn't recognize the cause until today.

Do you have any idea why the playlists will still be empty after a second sync? It's an infrequent problem but it's very frustrating when it happens.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2005, 03:18:55 am »

New twist this weekend with 205. MC database song names were cleared (corrupted or truncated jmd file). I updated the library from tags to fix the song names, backed up my library, re-started MC and tried to sync. MC doesn't think I have enough space on my iPod even when I deselect all playlists and delete unselected is true. I initialized my iPod again, free space values still negative before restart. After restart things look normal.

I saved off the MC database and iPod DB before initializing. Just let me know if you need them.

gpvillamil · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2005, 06:49:03 am »

Quote from: BlueGlow on March 05, 2005, 10:59:05 pm

Hi Steve,
Playlists were cleared again after a normal seeming sync last night with 198. This morning I upgraded to 205 and tried syncing again and then adding playlists and re-syncing, but playlists were still empty. I initialized my iPod and re-synched (1.5 hours) and the playlists are back. BTW, after I initialized I had to quit and restart MC before it would correctly calculate remaining space on the iPod. After an init it seems to behave as some huge number of songs will be sent even when no playlists are selected and I couldn't get it to calc correctly. I'd seen this bug in previous versions but didn't recognize the cause until today.

Do you have any idea why the playlists will still be empty after a second sync? It's an infrequent problem but it's very frustrating when it happens.

I have the same problem with incorrect calculation of free space. Like you, I use a bunch of smartlists to manage my iPod sync.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:44:48 am »

Hi Steve,
Playlists cleared again on the iPod tonight. Added a new playlist, resynced and they were back.

--New? Analyzing dialog counts down from # of songs
--New? Missing files don't raise warnings
--New? Unsupported file types raise a dialog with empty filenames to remove and continue. (I assume that means "skip and continue") Then it shows the not transferred dialog with filenames.

Thanks for adding these new features.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2005, 02:45:12 am »

Playlists back was short-lived. Synced again twenty minutes later to load a few new podcasts for the morning workout and playlists were gone again on the iPod. I tried re-syncing several times with no luck. I'm going to re-initialize now and do the big sync now.

SteveG · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2005, 11:49:37 am »

BlueGlow,

Sorry, this thread is a little old now. If you are still having an issue, can you summarize the steps to reproduce and I will address it.

Thanks,

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:40:38 pm »

Thanks, Steve. The issue is still open as of this afternoon with build .205.

Start with completely clean, reformatted 30GB, 3G iPod with latest firmware.
Dock and synchronize via firewire using action window buttons. (ignore duplicate track warnings)
Full sync takes 1-1.5 hours.
Undock safely, all 4,000+ songs and playlists are on the iPod.
Enjoy music and podcasts on iPod.
Dock and synchronise for playlist updates and/or new tracks.
Fewer tracks to transfer so sync is fast, a few minutes at most usually.
No error messages, undock safely: The songs have transferred, the playlists are cleared on the iPod.
Initialize iPod in MC and start over.

Notes:
At one time this was more intermittent but it's pretty consistent now. First sync with all songs, playlists OK. Second sync to update clears playlists. Repeated syncing doesn't help.
I compared iTunesDB before and after the playlists were cleared, both contain the titles of the playlists at about the same offsets. I have those files available if you need them.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:30:57 pm »

BTW, after the iPod is initialized with MC I have to exit and restart MC to get a correct value for space remaining in the sync AW. From the values I'm seeing it seems to estimate the space remaining with double the actual used space. 7MB used on a 30MB iPod becomes 16MB remaining after sync instead of 23MB. 25MB used on a 30MB iPod becomes -20MB remaining after sync. (those aren't actual values, but they're close)

BlueGlow · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:59:48 pm »

Fixing the playlists problems is my top request, but I have to ask:

Could you please add a one click sync and eject with all warnings/errors ignored?

Syncing takes even longer now with the analyzing files dialog. The sync flow goes something like this for me:
Dock iPod, wait a minute or so for the PC and MC to recognize it, click AW/Handheld Player, wait 10-30 seconds for MC to display the "Initializing Handheld" dialog (scary message), wait 5-10 seconds for AW/Playlists Checkbox Tree to display, click "Synchronize" button, wait 5-30 seconds for duplicates warning message to display, click OK, wait for sync/transfer to complete, find Devices in main tree, Click Devices to expand, right-click iPod, select "Eject iPod", undock, use iPod.

I have a fast PC but these times are probably longer than most due to a high number of tracks and smartlists. The estimated times shown above are with optimized smartlists (thanks, Matt).

During the sync time I have to give the sync my attention for the clicks, and I have to be careful not to get distracted and remove the iPod when MC is waiting for my input. I've had many occasions where I started a sync, got called away for business, etc., came back, ejected the ipod using the Windows removable media tray icon, and grabbed the iPod, only to find that it was "empty" due to an incomplete sync.

A one click sync with errors ignored would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
bg

BlueGlow · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2005, 05:37:06 pm »

Hi Steve,
Is this enough information to track down the playlist problem or would you like a copy of the iPod database files before and after the clearing?

SteveG · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2005, 06:40:54 pm »

bg,

I am testing with 214. I followed your steps in the first post and could not duplicate the problem. Do you have 'Delete unselected files' selected?

In regards to the space available report, you say.....

Quote

after the iPod is initialized with MC I have to exit and restart....

Are you referring to the right click initialize where you delete the contents of the iPod? If so, deselect all your playlists and the space available should be the same as what is reported in the task bar. Can you confirm this?

Quote

Could you please add a one click sync and eject with all warnings/errors ignored?

Yes, or something similar.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2005, 07:06:47 pm »

I'll try .214 tonight. The current bug reports had me a bit shy about it.

I do have 'Delete unselected files' selected.

>>Are you referring to the right click initialize where you delete the contents of the iPod?
Yes, after that initialize, the space available is always wrong even when all playlists are deselected.

>>space available should be the same as what is reported in the task bar. Can you confirm this?
Which task bar do you mean?

>>Yes, or something similar.
Joy, or something similar.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2005, 10:43:43 pm »

Installed .216, first sync was ok no playlists cleared, imported one file, synched again, playlists cleared.

Initialized iPod via right click, click handheld/synchronize, deselected all playlists, my 30GB iPod shows 16.8GB available after sync. Exit and restart MC and it displays expected space available.

(Note that I have reduced the number of files on my iPod so I can do these tests more quickly.)

BlueGlow · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2005, 01:49:09 am »

I did a more thorough test. I started with a new database and an empty iPod, added about 1,000 files and 10 smartlists. Synched, all ok, added a file, synced, all ok, repeated that with 1-3 files a few times and all was ok. The files I used in this test had duplicates, and there were AAC files that failed to transfer.

Then I added another ~400 files, synched again, playlists cleared. I'm going back to my old database now since I was able to duplicate the problem with a new, small database. Please let me know if you can think of another test that would help.

SteveG · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2005, 11:38:12 am »

BlueGlow,

I can test more, but can you try testing without the 'Duplicates' ? That definitely could cause inconsistencies which is why it warns to resolve any duplicates.

Thanks,

Steve

PS also, try getting 219.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2005, 12:35:11 pm »

I'll try removing the dupes and testing 219, thanks.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2005, 08:41:58 pm »

Testing .220.
Renamed dupes.
First sync gave error messages about m4b and m4a files and cleared playlists.
Just right-click initialized iPod, .220 is still showing incorrect space available after an initialization.
Doing full sync with empty iPod now.

SteveG · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2005, 03:56:01 pm »

BG,

Wait for 221 if you are transferring aac or doing any conversion. The encoding changes recently broke this but it is fixed in 221.

Thanks.

PS, that could be the root of the incorrect space problem, assuming that you were trying to transfer aac.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2005, 05:35:45 pm »

Thanks, Steve, I'll keep an eye out for .221. Did you make changes that might help with the playlists clearing?

>>PS, that could be the root of the incorrect space problem,
>>assuming that you were trying to transfer aac.

Really? I have 1.1GB of AAC files. After doing a right-click initialize the space available is low by ~11GB difference.

SteveG · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2005, 05:13:47 pm »

BG,

If you test 221 and AAC, click on 'Check for Updates' first. Are you saying that with a cleanly initialized iPod, MC is incorrectly reporting the space by 11GB? If so, what does Windows Explorer report as the space available?

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #27 on:** March 24, 2005, 02:33:45 am »

Hi Steve,
First an update. I got .221 before it was pulled. The first sync didn't want to transfer the AAC files. (I did try Check for Updates a couple of times this afternoon, no updates available, but I don't know if I should have seen any.) I have now sync'd 3 times with .221 and the playlists have not been cleared. *And* the AAC files just transferred on the last sync. I'm tempted to push my luck and try another sync before sleep tonight. If I do, I'll post the results.
[later]
4th sync, went pretty well, AAC transferred, and playlists are ok.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2005, 02:40:51 am »

Quote from: SteveG on March 23, 2005, 05:13:47 pm

Are you saying that with a cleanly initialized iPod, MC is incorrectly reporting the space by 11GB? If so, what does Windows Explorer report as the space available?

(initialize not tested with .221, if you need it tested with .221 I can try it tomorrow)
Right click initialize clears the files and DB on the iPod, then MC reports an incorrect space available until MC is quit and restarted.
Init, stay in MC, MC reports 6GB avail, Explorer reports 17GB avail, quit MC, start MC, MC reports 17GB avail.

I reduced the # of songs I xfr for these tests. When I have a large # of songs MC will report negative free space after initialize.

Someone else reported the same problem in another thread. Hope that helps.

BlueGlow · « **Reply #29 on:** March 24, 2005, 02:00:36 pm »

.222 - successful sync, playlists ok, aac transferred ok. This is getting exciting.

SteveG · « **Reply #30 on:** March 25, 2005, 09:21:21 am »

BlueGlow,

Thanks for the update.

Steve

BlueGlow · « **Reply #31 on:** March 29, 2005, 08:38:16 pm »

(deleted two red herrings)
I haven't nailed it yet, but there are problems with duplicates. Most recent test with a playlist of 4 songs, 2 duplicated.
- Added 3 songs to the playlist, two were dupes.
- Sync'd. Quick check of playlist on iPod, all ok.
- Added fourth song to the playlist, second dupe.
- Sync'd. No songs transferred.
- Playlist on iPod UI matched MC, 4 songs listed, two dupes.
- But only three songs really on the iPod HD, last song did not transfer.
- Click iPod device in MC tree:
Two songs listed on MC iPod Device root level
Four songs listed on the MC iPod Device Playlist node.

Do you need my help tracking this one down or can you just add an incremental counter to the song name when it's a duplicate like Explorer does?

Does this same problem exist in iTunes? I have many correctly tagged songs which have duplicate artist/song/album data. I'm surprised I'm the only one reporting a problem.

Could this be related to the filename length issue discussed in another thread? The dupe filenames are the 32 & 35 chars long, though I have another file with a 61 character long filename that works fine.

Thanks,
bg

BlueGlow · « **Reply #32 on:** March 29, 2005, 11:33:28 pm »

Btw, did one more test using .225 and started a clean library with just 20 tracks to test. It looks like duplicate artist/album/name is the cause of the playlists clearing problem. All these files have normal tags, just long similar filenames. I haven't tried with shorter files. The "duplicate" files also have similar filenames where the first 20 or so characters are the same.

I'm able to duplicate the problem now with just 11 tracks total. 3 sets of dupes and 4 unique tracks. All the files get transferred, but the playlists are gone on the iPod.

It may be possible with fewer tracks but I think the problem area is pinpointed. Could you please add a fix before the release?

Thanks.

tlongacre · « **Reply #33 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:25:55 pm »

I'm a little lost in all the detail, but this just happened to me! I was not having this problem at all, but now in v.225, I synced my iPod yesterday or the day before -- mostly it added and deleted about 80 songs (on a 60gb). But when I went to play it I saw that I had no playlists.

Waiting with baited breath for the next release. . .

BlueGlow · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2005, 12:22:46 pm »

Quote from: tlongacre

I'm a little lost in all the detail, but this just happened to me!

Yes, there is too much info here. I created a new thread with a summary and workaround here.

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Author Topic: PLaylists Cleared on iPod (Read 7206 times)