Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[c1c9k72]

I just upgraded to the 11 Beta, and like what I'm seeing so far.  But is anyone else having the problem that the rating you've given your music isn't being written into the MP3 Tag ?  I use MC11, but I also have WinAMP still on my system as well.  When I loaded my music into it, none of the ratings came with them ?  Is there a way to get it to do this, or is it a bug in the tagging component ?

[LonWar]

It writes them into the Comment fields.

THe ratings will only be shown in MC/MJ

[c1c9k72]

Thanks, gamer.

I see what you mean now, but the question still persists: why don't they get written to the ID tag which is designed to hold ratings ?  Or, at least, why don't we have the option of placing them there?  I really don't want to have to re-rate all these songs for the rare occasions I have to use the other software.

[LonWar]

I know this was brought up before.... I just can't remember  ?

Try doing a search, or haybe we can get Matt to answer this on Monday..

[modelmaker]

They did in the end change "hairstyle" to "theaterview"! -How long did that take??

[risingdamp]

I had this issue migrating ratings from musicmatch.  I got round it by finding an unused tag that was recognised by both apps (think I used situation or mood) to get the ratings copied across into MC and then into the ratings field.

[LonWar]

Ok, If they won't change there rating system, then Can they add the ID3 tag in so we can manually copy the ratings over?

[c1c9k72]

Many of us would like that MC would use default ID3 tag fields for certain things, but, without a major revolution, which isn't going to happen imo, because if it was ever going to, it would have happened already, MC's tagging engine is not about to change any time soon

I've complained about a couple of tagging issues in the past, but never really followed through on them.  One post and that was it.  I'm hoping that, since 11 is in Beta, we may stand a chance at getting something changed.  After all, the tagging engine is an important component of this software, and it should work properly.

[GHammer]

Well, the tagging does work properly.
It just tags in a manner that those with an opinion don't care for.

Many people could care less, and that's a valid consideration for a developer.

But, if you position an app towards bleeding edge types, then you can expect that your users will have some reasons for wanting this or that.

I have only a few issues with the tagging.

I see no reason to have the app and its version written to my files.

I also like apps that use 'standards', the rating is a good example of that. There is a documented field for a rating. Why create your own?

I'd like to see MC use documented fields in tags as much as possible. And if there is a need for some custom tag, then use something other than the comment fields for it. It's what Private frames are for I think.

[hit_ny]

I also like apps that use 'standards', the rating is a good example of that. There is a documented field for a rating. Why create your own?

I'd like to see MC use documented fields in tags as much as possible. And if there is a need for some custom tag, then use something other than the comment fields for it. It's what Private frames are for I think.

Agreed...

Was not even aware there was a standard for rating. Its possible they might revist this in the next version. I wonder what the take-up has been for other apps in this regard.

[c1c9k72]

I went back to the ID3.org website this morning to look over what exactly the rating tag is supposed to look like and found there does not appear to be, at least in the ID3 v2.4.0 specifications, a frame dedicated to them.  I could be wrong, but I don't see it.  There is something called Popularimeter (POPM), but that appears to be more interested in the quality of the rip.

I hate it when I undermine my own requests, but in light of that, I'm not sure if there is anything JRiver can do.

[Matt]

I went back to the ID3.org website this morning to look over what exactly the rating tag is supposed to look like and found there does not appear to be, at least in the ID3 v2.4.0 specifications, a frame dedicated to them.  I could be wrong, but I don't see it.  There is something called Popularimeter (POPM), but that appears to be more interested in the quality of the rip.

I hate it when I undermine my own requests, but in light of that, I'm not sure if there is anything JRiver can do.

Thanks.

We do try to use standard fields whenever possible.

[RhinoBanga]

There is something called Popularimeter (POPM), but that appears to be more interested in the quality of the rip.

Nope, it's to rate the track with the added benefit of supporting the same MP3 file for multiple users (identified by their email address).

4.17.   Popularimeter

   The purpose of this frame is to specify how good an audio file is.
   Many interesting applications could be found to this frame such as a
   playlist that features better audio files more often than others or
   it could be used to profile a person's taste and find other 'good'
   files by comparing people's profiles. The frame contains the email
   address to the user, one rating byte and a four byte play counter,
   intended to be increased with one for every time the file is played.
   The email is a terminated string. The rating is 1-255 where 1 is
   worst and 255 is best. 0 is unknown. If no personal counter is wanted
   it may be omitted. When the counter reaches all one's, one byte is
   inserted in front of the counter thus making the counter eight bits
   bigger in the same away as the play counter ("PCNT"). There may be
   more than one "POPM" frame in each tag, but only one with the same
   email address.

     <Header for 'Popularimeter', ID: "POPM">
     Email to user   <text string> $00
     Rating          $xx
     Counter         $xx xx xx xx (xx ...)

[c1c9k72]

Nope, it's to rate the track with the added benefit of supporting the same MP3 file for multiple users (identified by their email address).

4.17.   Popularimeter

   The purpose of this frame is to specify how good an audio file is.
   Many interesting applications could be found to this frame such as a
   playlist that features better audio files more often than others or
   it could be used to profile a person's taste and find other 'good'
   files by comparing people's profiles. The frame contains the email
   address to the user, one rating byte and a four byte play counter,
   intended to be increased with one for every time the file is played.
   The email is a terminated string. The rating is 1-255 where 1 is
   worst and 255 is best. 0 is unknown. If no personal counter is wanted
   it may be omitted. When the counter reaches all one's, one byte is
   inserted in front of the counter thus making the counter eight bits
   bigger in the same away as the play counter ("PCNT"). There may be
   more than one "POPM" frame in each tag, but only one with the same
   email address.

     <Header for 'Popularimeter', ID: "POPM">
     Email to user   <text string> $00
     Rating          $xx
     Counter         $xx xx xx xx (xx ...)

Thanks, Rhino.  I really should read these things more carefully.  It would sort of resurrect the request, but I don't think that the other "standard" players along with MC generally interpret this tag as a rating tag.  I know that both MediaMonkey and WinAMP seem to have their own thing going with ratings that don't seem to involve the tags at all.

If anything, I'd love for the ability to get Media Center to openly tag IDv3 frames.  So, you can take your Rating and, if you wanted, assign them to a frame which can accept them.   Ratings, if you wished, could go in POPM or the PCNT or any other frame that accepts numerical input.  It would add flexibility, but the workload involved in adding that could be greater than any benefit.

[GHammer]

I went back to the ID3.org website this morning to look over what exactly the rating tag is supposed to look like and found there does not appear to be, at least in the ID3 v2.4.0 specifications, a frame dedicated to them.  I could be wrong, but I don't see it.  There is something called Popularimeter (POPM), but that appears to be more interested in the quality of the rip.

I hate it when I undermine my own requests, but in light of that, I'm not sure if there is anything JRiver can do.

Hmmm, perhaps a bit further readin is in order then:

Popularimeter
How good do you think this file is? How often do you play it? The answers to these questions are stored in this frame, making possible new and exciting applications. For example, a player that plays files from your playlist differently frequently depending on how good you think they are.

Sure sounds like a rating to me.
http://www.id3.org/frames.html

[c1c9k72]

Hmmm, perhaps a bit further readin is in order then:

Popularimeter
How good do you think this file is? How often do you play it? The answers to these questions are stored in this frame, making possible new and exciting applications. For example, a player that plays files from your playlist differently frequently depending on how good you think they are.

Sure sounds like a rating to me.
http://www.id3.org/frames.html

Agreed.

But now that we've found "it," what do we do with it ?

[GHammer]

Ask for MC to follow, as closely as defined, the standard.

[c1c9k72]

Would it be more productive to seek the creation of a plug-in that takes library information and allows it to be transferred into MP3 frames of the user's choice ?

[KingSparta]

Would it be more productive to seek the creation of a plug-in that takes library information and allows it to be transferred into MP3 frames of the user's choice ?

That could be done, but i am not sure if MC would Retain the ID3 Frame if it is re-written (i think it will but not sure, Much has changed).

[c1c9k72]

That could be done, but i am not sure if MC would Retain the ID3 Frame if it is re-written (i think it will but not sure, Much has changed).

KingSparta,

I was hoping you'd come across this.  I can't claim to know anything about the code behind MC, and would leave that in your capable hands.  While I do feel that MP3 tagging is a major component of Media Center, I understand that there are other, more important things which should be addressed first.  Then, if JRiver wants to tackle the tagging issues, they can.

And, it'll leave me time to pester them about the smartlist creation method and it's user friendliness.

[KingSparta]

If there is a rating tag in ID3v2 Then It should be used to stay compatable

but MusicMatch Has never been "Compatable" nor has Real Media Player

I do not plan to now or in the future to switch jukebox programs

I personnaly don't see a problem with the way it is now, but i can understand how some people would want it as an option.

[c1c9k72]

If there is a rating tag in ID3v2 Then It should be used to stay compatable

but MusicMatch Has never been "Compatable" nor has Real Media Player

I do not plan to now or in the future to switch jukebox programs

I personnaly don't see a problem with the way it is now, but i can understand how some people would want it as an option.

I have, on occasion, thought about switching to another piece of software for my music needs, but frankly, I've never found one that does all the things that Media Center does nor does them as well.  However; my concern lies more in the handheld technologies that are proliferating nowadays.  I don't presently have one of them, but am seriously thinking about getting one.  And when I do, I'd like to be able (if the option exists) to be able to transfer my music with their ratings to the portable.  I don't know whether or not ratings are currently supported by portables, but it's probably just a generation or two away.  And, as things are now, ratings would not be compatable.

[hit_ny]

how about asking the current ipod users

Do they see tracks they rated in MC showing up in the iPod and do tracks rated on the iPod show up in MC ?

[c1c9k72]

how about asking the current ipod users

Do they see tracks they rated in MC showing up in the iPod and do tracks rated on the iPod show up in MC ?

I don't really know any, but given the traffic on the handheld board, it looks like the iPod may synchronize both the ratings and the number of plays.  But there are more handhelds than just iPods.  And, since one of the stickies on that board is a sound, multi-step, method for transfering ratings from MC to iTunes, there does seem to be some issue with ratings transfer between programs.  Though, I do have to admit that's an interesting technique.

[hit_ny]

I don't really know any, but given the traffic on the handheld board, it looks like the iPod may synchronize both the ratings and the number of plays.  But there are more handhelds than just iPods.  And, since one of the stickies on that board is a sound, multi-step, method for transfering ratings from MC to iTunes, there does seem to be some issue with ratings transfer between programs.  Though, I do have to admit that's an interesting technique.

Point of me asking was to see whether the iPod honours the standard for rating ?

Upto now, it seems that winamp is the only player that does.

[c1c9k72]

Point of me asking was to see whether the iPod honours the standard for rating ?

Upto now, it seems that winamp is the only player that does.

Sorry, didn't realize what you meant.  I've been looking all through the handheld boards and haven't found anything that says how iPods store the ratings.  I wasn't aware that WinAMP actually stored using a standard, but that's good info to have.  Thanks.

[hit_ny]

Ahh...the key word there was seems  lol

i'm not sure if winamp honours the standard either. Just guessed from your initial post. Trying to find out who follows the standard (if at all).

I wonder if its possible to verify this with a tagging program like Dr.Tag.

[c1c9k72]

Ahh...the key word there was seems  lol

i'm not sure if winamp honours the standard either. Just guessed from your initial post. Trying to find out who follows the standard (if at all).

I wonder if its possible to verify this with a tagging program like Dr.Tag.

Great minds think alike...

A friend of mine has a current version of Dr. Tag and I had him check an mp3 that I sent for a rating tag.  It doesn't seem to recognize the POPM tag, or at least, he doesn't know how to find it.  If anyone else has a copy of that software and knows if it can read POPM frames, I'd love to know.