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[nila]

This is kind of related to MJ indirectly.
I use MJ to organise and burn my music for my car

Anyway, alot of the people here are audio fans like me. For those of you that this knowledge extends to their car as well please give some advice.

My car audio sounds not bad. I have a great alpine head unit that's 4x60W which I use to power 4 5" midranges and 4 tweeters.
This sounds quite nice but lacks any real punch for base. I therefore want to add a sub to make the music have a much more rounded sound.

I'm thinking of buying the Kicker: 600.4 (4x150 watts) amp ($269.99) and a 12" kicker sub that's rated at 400W ($89.99) (I'll bridge two of the outputs to give me 1 300W output for the sub).

Any of you that extend your knowledge of audio to car audio as well please let me know if this is a wise choice or other recommendations.
I'm going to buy them both from the US to get them cheaper and my friend who's coming back from there who I'd get to bring it is coming back in a week so I gotta be fast

Any and all input appreciated. I LOVE driving with music playing, it's the most relaxing feeling in the world.
Now THAT is pure freedom (until u gotta go pay to fill up with gas).

Thanks

[Charlemagne 8]

Get TWO subwoofers and if you have room get 15". The bass response is a lot better and the two subs firing in phase will create a better "envelope". Or more "kick", if you wish.

And get a crossover in addition to all of the above. It will make a BIG difference. If your amp is just for your subwoofers, it goes in line after the crossover. If not, it can go before.
CVIII

[Scronch]

Yeah, and really crank it up, so loud that they can hear it a block away.  I was a stupid kid once, and now I can't hear very well.  Your mother is right.

Scronch

[nila]

lol, Thanks for the warning but I personally only ever listen to it at a level I like it at.
I'm a bit unconsiderate like that and dont turn it up so that those guys over in china can listen to it at the same time as me.

I think that sub setup suggested is a little extreme for me. I like music in my car but I also like some boot space for every day life Thanks for the feedback though

[Charlemagne 8]

I understand about the boot space. I tried every way i could think of to put 15" subs behind the seat of my regular cab Ford pickup. I had to settle for 12" and build my own enclosures.
Whatever size you get, GET TWO. Especially for lower volumes like you said you like.  

If they are not firing against each other, you lose a lot of the lower end sound. At higher, neighbor-bashing volumes, it wouldn't make that much difference. But at lower volumes, the difference would be dramatic.

It works kind of like the back pressure that makes a trumpet work just by making a little raspberry into the mouthpiece. Ever had your home speakers out of phase? The same speakers, the same volume but very different results than from being in phase.

When you run one subwoofer, it's always out of phase.
Two 8" subs would be better than one 12".

The crossover would keep those nasty, distortion-causing low frequencies out of your mid-range and tweeters and those nasty, distortion causing mid-range frequencies out of your tweeters. Again, this is especially important a lower volumes. For listening. At higher volumes, the speaker "blows" and then it's ALWAYS distorted.

If I have convinced you, make sure you pay attention to the recommended box volume space. U.S. speakers will state that number in cubic feet. It's different for different brands, sizes and basic construction specs.

If I haven't convinced you, I tried. At any rate SOME sound would be better than NO sound. Enjoy.

CVIII

BTW, Scronch, I like my music at front-row live concert volumes. I have listened to it like that at every oppotunity for 34 years. My last hearing check (about 6 months ago) showed I had excellent hearing at all frequencies normally audible to humans. I realize that I'm just lucky and it doesn't usually happen that way but my mother was not ALWAYS right. Neither am I.
When are we going to be able to order beer by mail? Or on-line? They seemed to have stopped distributing my favorite beer here and I can't find another that I like.

C8

[Scronch]

C8 -

We're a longggggggg way off from shipping to other states.  That's a big deal with alcohol sales.  Someday...

Are you saying you're 34 years old, or more like 46?  My hearing starting dropping out in my mid-30's.  I'm guessing your's will eventually succumb to all that abuse.  Unless you're one of those folks who has thick, gross earwax plugging everything up all the time, givng you natural protection.

I have to take a little issue with your discussion of 2 subs instead of 1.  The primary improvement will be because of the two locations and bass volume increase, not the reasons you list.  Bass may not be very directional, but when you are in close quarters with lots of sound-absorbing materials, you can tell where it's coming from, and 2 sub drivers can help.

When you run one subwoofer, it's always out of phase.

No, it's not.

At higher, neighbor-bashing volumes, it wouldn't make that much difference. But at lower volumes, the difference would be dramatic.

That argument implies that biasing the low-end (through an equalizer or preferably separate sub amp) would eliminate the "problem" of only 1 sub.  While I think biasing will take care of most shortcomings, I agree with you that 2 subs sound better than 1.  But at low volumes in cramped quarters, I believe it is the directionality and simple increase in bass volume that makes the difference, not any magic caused by the 2 subs "interacting" with one another.

In general, I don't think the extra cost of a 2nd sub for a standard auto configuration is worth it, but it makes more sense for a pickup truck (if you can find room under the gun rack, above the Skoal chest, and behind the Willie Nelson CD's).

Scronch

[Charlemagne 8]

Comments to Scronch in order of apperance:
OK.
51.
OK.
CVIII

[nila]

well, I finally went and did it, Unfortunately I didn't take your advice
I found a really good deal on an Alpine amp and sub with a free box and free wiring kit.
I ended up buying an alpine v12 (m300) 1x300 watt amp and a R serious 12" alpine sub.
Supposedly they're quite good and I got the set for like £300 brand new. it'd normally cost around £600 for it so I just went for it.

Thanks for the advice though, I would have probably got 2x10" if it wasn't for how cheap this set was.

[Charlemagne 8]

Nila,
It's probably just as well.  Apparently, I didn't know what I was talking about.
Enjoy your new system.
CVIII

[Scronch]

OK.
51.
OK.
CVIII

51 !?!  My God, you must have eardrums of steel!  I'm very jealous.  (What's that?  My wife calling?  Sorry, can't hear it, heh heh.)

Apparently, I didn't know what I was talking about.

 I wasn't trying to be nasty, just to add my thoughts.  The Skoal and Willie stuff was, as Zev would say, "a joke".

Scronch

[Charlemagne 8]

Scronch,

The Skoal and Willie stuff was, as Zev would say, "a joke".

Glad to hear it. I'm used to not knowing what I'm talking about. I've been married for going on 22 years.

Being born, raised and living in the deep South, I'm a little sensitive to inuendos of Redneckism.

Sorry I got my knickers in a twist.

CVIII

[Scronch]

That's OK.  Maybe I was too terse.  It's happened before.

Just pop your teeth out and go to bed.

(A JOKE!  A JOKE!)

Scronch

[JaredH]

I actually have first hand experience with this. I installed a kicker subwoofer system in my best friends car. At first I told him that he should have bought 2 10's or 2 12's but after i installed the system, I was astonished at the sound. He has one 12" Kicker competition and a 400w kicker two channel amp. I ran the amp bridged and im sure of the exact wattage running through the sub but the sound is incredible. He drives a 94 subaru legacy and in my personal opinion his car sounds better than another friend who used to run 2 15" fosgate dvc's with a punch 250. The bass in my friends subaru is clean and crisp and at times with the BBE (sound boost) turned on on the JVC deck he runs it can be overwhelming. In my personal opinion and experience, unless you have a vehicle with unbelievable air space, one 12" kicker competition, or 12" Kicker solobaric running off a amp that pushes between 300-400 watts will definately not leave you disappointed. Just for knowledge, ive been installing audio systems for people in my spare time for about 6 or 7 years now. I personally would go for 2 10" Kenwood or Kickers for a clean, crisp, well rounded, and loud when you want it, sound, coupled with nothing lower than a 300 watt amp, either alpine or kicker.  But if youre going to go with one speaker, a 12" is the way to go, and you cant go wrong with Kicker. Hope that helps.

[JaredH]

it would also help if i read to the end of the thread sometimes before i reply, lol. Carelessness can get you killed, im surprised im not already dead.

[nila]

lol,
Thanks Jared,
Glad you like the Alpine Amps, I ALMOST got a kicker sub but was told by two dealers that they sounded perfect for clean bass but that they weren't very musical as they just cut off at a specific range.
This was a specific feature to make them clear and crisp but for musical sound wasn't recommended.
Thanks for the advice though

[nila]

I finally got it all wired into my car and for all you audio enthusiasts out there I definitely recommend it. Even at low levels it totally gives the music a different sound and makes it sound so much better.

Even when I'm listening to classical on it it really makes the sound just so much nicer and add's that deep bass to the music. I'm definitely not a bass junkie but it really does make all my music sound so much more complete and less like just pure high and mid range sound.

I now have my Alpine 7893 (mp3 cd player) powering four 5" mid range speakers and four tweeters. It also has a pre-amp out specifically for a sub. This is wired into an Alpine MDR-M300 amp which is connected to an Alpine SWR-1241D 12" sub.
The overall sound quality from this is just awesome and so far I haven't found any music that doesn't sound crystal clear from it.
The whole setup cost me around £580.

I LOVE listening to music in my car as it's the only place you can truely enjoy it with no distractions.

[Charlemagne 8]

Classical Music? It was designed for live performance. Live = loud. A good subwoofer can make you really appreciate kettle drums. (Tympani?)
Try Tchaikovsky.
CVIII