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[GHammer]

I'd like to ask that MC 11 either support or remove FLAC.
I do not use it, and have no plans to use it.

However, I have had 4 separate people recently try MC 11 and they all use FLAC. All experienced issues of one sort or another.

[jgreen]

Quoting the hammer:
"either support or remove FLAC."

I hope you're just waxing rhetorical here, ham.  FLAC is my lossless format of choice, and jriver supports it just fine, AFAIK.  What would you want to be different?

 I play FLACs all day, every day, and no one's stopped me yet.   With in-house APE, and Bill's WMA, I can see why FLAC is the red-headed stepchild here.  But I'm unaware of any functional deficiency--FLAC plays lossless audio in a lighter process than either of the other two.  Is this about storing cover art or lyrics in the tags?

Thank you to scthom for the FLAC encoder, and thank you to jriver for the open plugin system.

[edbro]

Quoting the hammer:
"either support or remove FLAC."

I hope you're just waxing rhetorical here, ham.  FLAC is my lossless format of choice, and jriver supports it just fine, AFAIK.

Can you burn a cd from flac files? I can't. See here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29282.0

[jgreen]

"Can you burn a cd from flac files? I can't."

Add to that list the inability to return automatically to FLAC from saving in the media editor.  That is, if either of these processes can be done transparently with either  APE or WMA.  But is that any reason to remove FLAC? 

"either support or remove FLAC."

FLAC works better than the other two right now--is that any cause for removing support?  Yes, it can be improved, but it's pretty darn good as it is.

BTW--I burn FLAC to data DVD's right now.  Are you trying to burn FLAC to CDA?

[edbro]

BTW--I burn FLAC to data DVD's right now.  Are you trying to burn FLAC to CDA?

Yes. Burning data files is totally different and any burning program can do that.

Just curious, what makes Flac better than Ape? Both have similar file sizes and both are of course lossless. So, what makes one better than the other? I use Ape only because it works better with MC. But, I would like better flac support because a lot of downloaded files come as flac (or *.shn). I don't like having to convert them to ape if they are already in a lossless format. But, if I can't burn them to a cd for playback, then that doesn't work for me.

[jgreen]

FLAC is better for me, because all I care about is the (stereo) audio.  All three formats are lossless, but only FLAC is specificaly designed to be a lightweight process on playback. 
'Who cares,' you say, when processors are so fast?  Try loading up your maching with tasks and see which format delivers fewer blips or stutters.  APE is a great format with a lot of features, but currently the feature set it offers above FLAC are things I'm not interested in.   YRMV.    In the future this might change, but in the future I might go back to WAV, just because disk prices are getting so cheap. 
Listen, I'd love to see FLAC get tighter integration within MC, no question.  But I think FLAC support is pretty extensive right now, considering that jriver's own and MSFT's own formats are also supported.

[scthom]

I'd like to ask that MC 11 either support or remove FLAC.
I do not use it, and have no plans to use it.

However, I have had 4 separate people recently try MC 11 and they all use FLAC. All experienced issues of one sort or another.

Well obviously that's one point of view.  I don't use APE and don't plan to use it.  Should it be removed?

FLAC in MC is not supported by JRiver in any way, as they have previously stated they were not intending to provide the plugin.  Oblong and myself have taken it upon ourselves, since we use and like FLAC, to provide a "workable" situation.  Is it perfect?  Not yet.  The fact that FLAC works AT ALL in MC is a tribute to the fact that MC is a capable tool and can be expanded by user-supported plugins.

If you think my plugins need fixing, please provide a complete description of the problem and give me some time to fix it.  Or, have your friends use the external encoder/decoder plugins straight to the reference encoder.

[GHammer]

Well obviously that's one point of view.  I don't use APE and don't plan to use it.  Should it be removed?

Apples and oranges. APE is natively supported while FLAC is done by 3rd parties.

FLAC in MC is not supported by JRiver in any way, as they have previously stated they were not intending to provide the plugin.  Oblong and myself have taken it upon ourselves, since we use and like FLAC, to provide a "workable" situation.

Bingo! And when Oblong left the plugin it caused FLAC users problems until you came along. A position to be considered carefully if you are a prospective user.

If you think my plugins need fixing, please provide a complete description of the problem and give me some time to fix it.  Or, have your friends use the external encoder/decoder plugins straight to the reference encoder.

You know, when you tell someone that this or that works well you like that something to work well. Not almost work. Not with the addition of this and this and this.

My (and their) bottom line is if this or that function works with one format, it should work with another format. If it doesn't, it is not complete.

If I use formats supported natively by JRiver then MC has to go away before I am left in the cold. If I use a 3rd party plugin only that one person has to lose interest.

I'll take my chances with the company that makes the main app thanks.

If you have a reason to use FLAC and you're willing to use workarounds and you like relying on a single person to provide the support for your audio files, then I guess FLAC and MC 11 is a match made in Heaven.

[jgreen]

If jriver does not support FLAC, how can it possibly be removed?  jriver has an open plugin system and scthom has written a great plugin providing FLAC encoding functionality for those of us that want it.  How can this be a problem? 
I agree that jriver native functionality should be consistent.  Since FLAC isn't native, what exactly is your beef?  You think that the FLAC plugin should be the only plugin NOT allowed by jriver?  This alone among all the lyric finders, cover art matchers, GPS correlators, visualizations and hello kitty ringtone calibrators?  Our priorities differ.

MC, the greatest media organizer on the planet, currently offers only 1 uncompressed format, only 2 lossless formats, and yet about two dozen permutations of lossy compression, in an age when most libraries will fit on a $100 hard drive.  Out of all those choices, you single out FLAC as not properly supported?  Haven't you been reading the forum?

Quoting Hammer:
"If you have a reason to use FLAC and you're willing to use workarounds and you like relying on a single person to provide the support for your audio files, then I guess FLAC and MC 11 is a match made in Heaven."

I could not have said it better.  While I don't like laying that kind of burden on scthom, capable though he is, the FLAC encoder / decoders work great.  Yes, I wish jriver would wake up and support FLAC more fully, but even though they don't, they still see fit to live and let live--they like APE and I like FLAC.  What in the world is wrong with that?

[JimH]

Hang in there, scthom.  We (JRiver) appreciate your efforts.

[lpr]

Hang in there, scthom.  We (JRiver) appreciate your efforts.

And all of us flac users, thanks!

[scthom]

Thanks for the votes of support.  I know many people use and enjoy FLAC, just as many people use and enjoy MP3 or APE.

GHammer, I know you are a big supporter of MC.  Thanks for working so hard during the beta testing and for providing support here in the forums.  So we will peacefully disagree.   We both want MC to be a better product, and we're both doing our part.

[MAPgeekdad]

If I were not able to play FLAC with MC, I would be searching for a different product.

Thanks to everyone for making it possible!

[iCamp]

Hammer,

It's probably just me but this almost reads like an intent to attack FLAC, users of FLAC, and those who use FLAC with MC.  I certainly hope trolling isn't your intent but your position is so weak that it almost comes across like that.

[GHammer]

Hammer,

It's probably just me but this almost reads like an intent to attack FLAC, users of FLAC, and those who use FLAC with MC.  I certainly hope trolling isn't your intent but your position is so weak that it almost comes across like that.

Ahhh, failure to agree that it is a good thing is trolling?
I see.

I'll stand by my original thoughts. A format whose support comes from a single person not in the employ of the maker of the app I use is not something I want to rely upon.

As I said earlier, if you do cool. Others I have referred to MC had various problems. Are they SO interested in MC (initially) that they are going to delve into forums, make bug reports on a third party plugin (or two), and wait for fixes or workarounds so they can change the player they are used to using? Nope.

And that is my point. MC is the one that plays them all. FLAC is a good and growing format. MC should support it natively same as MP3/APE/Etc.

[urlwolf]

I use flac too. Thanks to Oblong and Scthom.