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What's the tree view?

[datdude]

I only use the tree view occasionally for organizing my playlists.  It is annoying to be open every time you start MC.  It gets in the way of things like the playing now list.  I think there should be allowed a split view replacement or allow for action window items like playing now and display  to be stickied  and size adjustable/stackable by user preference.  I really don't know what is going on with this part of MC.  It is sort of usefull but highly annoying and cumbersome.  Maybe a tabbed view instead?

[hit_ny]

I only use the tree view occasionally for organizing my playlists. 

Really !! its from where...
-  i decide what viewscheme/smartlist to go for, since lots of them are nested. I have recently added most used to favorites via a toolbar button (thanx marko), lets see. But i wont be adding all of them there, the tree would still be needed for the rest.
- to move directories, via drag drop, don't much care for that rename function.

It is annoying to be open every time you start MC.  It gets in the way of things like the playing now list. 

dbl click the grabber. Otherwise i think u can tell MC to remember where it was b4 you exited. But then you have to remember to close at a point which makes sense or it's even more disorienting, the next time you start MC, so i did not bother with this option instead opting for MC to default to PN.

I think there should be allowed a split view replacement or allow for action window items like playing now and display  to be stickied  and size adjustable/stackable by user preference.  I really don't know what is going on with this part of MC.  It is sort of usefull but highly annoying and cumbersome. 

Not certain what you mean here, care to explain some more.

Maybe a tabbed view instead?

This has been suggested before, but JRiver does not seem too interested in it.

[Mr ChriZ]

I only use the tree view occasionally for organizing my playlists.  It is annoying to be open every time you start MC.  It gets in the way of things like the playing now list.  I think there should be allowed a split view replacement or allow for action window items like playing now and display  to be stickied  and size adjustable/stackable by user preference.  I really don't know what is going on with this part of MC.  It is sort of usefull but highly annoying and cumbersome.  Maybe a tabbed view instead?

Would require a lot of tabs....
I love the tree view, it's quick to browse through, it allows for alot of detailed functionality, and I fail to see how it's in the way... but thats juts me 

[datdude]

I primarily keep it minimised to the left with the main view maximised.  Why would you want to hunt though nested lists when the pane browsing is way better.  Im not saying we should get rid of it, I just thinkg there is too much emphasis on it.  It seems like JRiver is forcing us to use it.  Why can't the library browser be an option on the toolbar?  It seems like they could also allow the intire tree to be minimised so that there is more room for action window items.  I think you would only need 2 or 3 tabs.  One for the tree view, another for action items and another for stickied items like playing now.

The other option is to allow for a split view that allwos you to pick any view on the left hand side!

[marko]

I voted yes yesterday.

I think you would only need 2 or 3 tabs.  One for the tree view, another for action items and another for stickied items like playing now.

this sounds interesting though. could be an interesting experiment.
Quite often I find the tree and the action window competing for space. Especially when I have 3 or 4 action windows open.
It's one of the reasons I make good use of navigational favourites.

[hit_ny]

Why would you want to hunt though nested lists when the pane browsing is way better. 

How would you do that for a tree of viewschemes ?

It seems like they could also allow the intire tree to be minimised so that there is more room for action window items.

The other option is to allow for a split view that allwos you to pick any view on the left hand side!

This is a nice idea, an Action window that could grow to the top could be helpful.

[datdude]

I reall don't like how the tree expands at odd times.  That is annoying.  I just think that whole left side of MC is too cumbersome, kinda useless, and non-configurable which is not what MC is about.  I have said my peace.  No more complaints about it until they decide to improve it (hopefully).

[glynor]

From reading your last posting, I suspect that the real problem is that you just don't know how to use the Tree View.  It is probably the single most configurable part of MC.  (In fact, the only thing that annoys me about the Tree View is that I can't completely remove the annoying Library Browser).

Take a look at the Help file.  Create some view schemes with searches and check the "Populate Tree" checkbox.  Play with it a bit before you dismiss it.  The panes are okay I guess, but when I want to filter by 5-6 different fields on the fly, the Panes just aren't going to cut it.

That being said... I think you may have had a grain of wisdom in your posting above.  If you added 2-3 tabs to the top of the tree view "pane" you could include the tree, have a "big icon" mode (similar to the current Library Browser), and a whole pane for the Action Window.  I'm envisioning something similar to what Apple uses in DVD Studio Pro for the "heirarchy view"/"icon view"/"connections view" panel  (I can post a screenie tomorrow if anyone is interested).

[darichman]

I can post a screenie tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Actually, that would be good if you could.

Personally, at this stage I couldn't live without the tree ~ I have too many things packed in there for it to be effective as a tab system. I have separate levels and sublevels for organisation of albums, films, television, books, photos, comics, music videos, coverart, games and some limited document support... the list goes on. The only issue is that my tree has become very large and often requires too many levels to get to where I want.

One thing I would like to see with tabs though would be the ability to switch between media modes (kind of like the current imlementation of "All Media", "Audio", "Video" etc" but with customisability. I would like to be able to make my own modes (eg. "Books") each with its own filters and own unique tree.

The current problem I have (with the way media modes split the library by Media Type: video, audio, image, document etc) is that some forms of media overlap between these categories. For example, my "Sheet Music" collection contains a mix of image files, pdfs and finale documents, so some of them appear in "Images" and some are in "Documents".

As MC has always been promoted as "The one that plays them all" (and it does this better than any other program I've come across) there is definitely room for more comprehensive organisation of large & diverse media collections...

Maybe tabs are the answer, but they should be used to supplement the tree/view schemes, certainly not to replace it.

[Mr ChriZ]

One thing I would like to see with tabs though would be the ability to switch between media modes (kind of like the current imlementation of "All Media", "Audio", "Video" etc" but with customisability. I would like to be able to make my own modes (eg. "Books") each with its own filters and own unique tree.

I like the sound of that =)

[datdude]

From reading your last posting, I suspect that the real problem is that you just don't know how to use the Tree View.  It is probably the single most configurable part of MC.  (In fact, the only thing that annoys me about the Tree View is that I can't completely remove the annoying Library Browser).

Take a look at the Help file.  Create some view schemes with searches and check the "Populate Tree" checkbox.  Play with it a bit before you dismiss it.  The panes are okay I guess, but when I want to filter by 5-6 different fields on the fly, the Panes just aren't going to cut it.

That being said... I think you may have had a grain of wisdom in your posting above.  If you added 2-3 tabs to the top of the tree view "pane" you could include the tree, have a "big icon" mode (similar to the current Library Browser), and a whole pane for the Action Window.  I'm envisioning something similar to what Apple uses in DVD Studio Pro for the "heirarchy view"/"icon view"/"connections view" panel  (I can post a screenie tomorrow if anyone is interested).

I have deffinetley used it many times before.  However it is just there and cannot be altered in terms of what you see is what you get and that is it.  What you can do with it seems powerfull if you use it in that way, I do not.  So, it would be cool if I it could be minimised and or allowed to show something else. I think I brought up this topic to see how many people used and if they like it.  I looks like they do, so I shot myself in the foot so to speak, but for those of us who don't, I hope JRiver will take notice.  I will come up with some mock ups of what I would like to see.

[datdude]

 

This is what I would like to see.  Whether this is done with split views, more custmoizable action views, or tabs I just would love to have this type of view.

[glynor]

I'm envisioning something similar to what Apple uses in DVD Studio Pro for the "heirarchy view"/"icon view"/"connections view" panel  (I can post a screenie tomorrow if anyone is interested).

Here are the screenies I mentioned (I linked them rather than embedded them because they're huge).

DVD Studio Pro with Navigation Pane in Graphical View

DVD Studio Pro with Navigation Pane in Tree View

What I'm thinking is that, like DVDSP, you could have tabs on the tree view area.  Then you could have a couple of tabs (I'm thinking three) on the "tree-view" pane...

1) The tree view we know and love.
2) A simpler "favorites view" that has simpler, bigger icons that switch directly to a few select favorites.
3) An Action Window tab (that would be exactly what the action window now is, but would have the whole left side for any of it's windows).

This wouldn't bother me, because I rarely (if ever) need to see the action window and tree view at the same time (I don't often drag from one to the other).  It would also allow the action window more breathing room and would hide the complexity of the tree from those who don't use it

[datdude]

Coooool.  Now, I Dream of Jeanie.  Darn, its still the old way.

[hit_ny]

This wouldn't bother me, because I rarely (if ever) need to see the action window and tree view at the same time (I don't often drag from one to the other).  It would also allow the action window more breathing room and would hide the complexity of the tree from those who don't use it

There is no need for the action window to be present during dragging. In fact i minimise it to see more of the tree. I guess thats a good point, you either want to see all of the tree or all of the action window. I can't think of where i need both at the same time. Maybe others could. Currently you can get a maximised view of the tree by minimising the action window, but the opposite is not possible as yet.

Let's say if it were possible to get a maximised Action Window, a click, maximised it to cover the tree, another click brings it halfway down and a final click to minimse it (Like any program window in windows but not floating. Action Window would be anchored as it is but also have an extra mode ie maximise).

would Tabs still be required ?

[risingdamp]

I have to agree with Glynor.  2 (or 3 as glynor suggests) tabs in the tree view area would be great and would solve the problem that me, marko and many others have whereby the tree competes with the action window for space.

Additionally I'd like to see a very obvious and intuitive show/hide button for the whole of the left side, replacing (or complimenting) the current method whereby you have to double click the vertical splitter.  If this were implemented, so it is more obvious to the user how to show/hide, then the designers would have more of an appetite to make the showing / hiding stick across MC sessions.

These 2 enhancements alone would encourage me to fork out more $ for another upgrade.

[glynor]

Additionally I'd like to see a very obvious and intuitive show/hide button for the whole of the left side, replacing (or complimenting) the current method whereby you have to double click the vertical splitter.

I can see that as being useful, in addition to the method of double clicking on the vertical splittter.  Maybe something as simple as a toolbar button added to the bottom toolbar by default.  In fact, maybe they could even throw in a few other useful defaults -- like Back, Forward, and a "Jump to Playing Now" button (my iTunes switchers have complained that "it was hard to find the visualization window" as their primary reason, short of not free, for not paying up after the trial).  Simply one of these would work:



I do have to voice my support for at least the option to make the show/hide of ALL panels sticky.  I understand their concern over people losing their Action Window, but it's very inconsistent (this change is sticky with the Panes-View pane, Playing Now and everywhere else after all).   

There are things you could do to keep noobs from losing their panes, after all.  For example, the first time someone clicks on one of the resizers (or the first few times with a "don't bother me again" checkbox) the program could pop up a tooltip from the "button" that explains what just happened and how to get it back (similar to Windows XP's "hiding your notification items" tooltip).  Then you could add a posting to a sticky "common problem solver" post detailing how to get the Action Window back to Interact.  Then all of us can yell at the politely inform the noobs to "RTFFAQ".   

[salsbst1]

I use the tree view almost exclusively.

Whatever the UI that accomplishes it, I want to be able to make use of fairly deep view schemes.  So that I can say to MC, in order (for example):

Code: [Select]

By Decade, Style, Artist, Album
 70s
  Psychedelic
   G
    Grateful Dead, The
     Europe '72 Disc 1

The main beef I have with the pane view is that it limits the depth of the tree that one can specify.

[glynor]

That's my problem with the Pane view.  Many of my view schemes can go 7-8 (or more) "items" deep.  There's just no way to do this using the simplistic panes view.

[datdude]

That's my problem with the Pane view.  Many of my view schemes can go 7-8 (or more) "items" deep.  There's just no way to do this using the simplistic panes view.

The pane views are actually more detailed since you can select multiple items from each pane.  If you have a wide screen monitor you can easily fit 7 items maybe more but I don't have a need for that anyways.  By the time  you do that your only going to end up with a few songs unless your library is like 100,00 tracks.

[glynor]

My videos and especially images quite often are sorted 6-7 categories deep.   

I actually have two 22" CRT displays on my main computer, but you still can't really effectively use that many panes (not with anything approaching a long keyword, place, name, or album title).  I do appreciate their functionality for the occasional party-playlist, don't get me wrong, but I just use my MC for more than an iTunes clone I guess.

Of course, I do have about 60,000 audio files, another 6,000-8,000 videos, and about 200,000 images.  I also generate about 10,000 - 15,000 new images a year, add 600 - 700 new video files a year, and who knows how many new audio tracks.   

That's where I think MC really shines, and I guess that's my point.  It works pretty darn well both for my usage patterns (via the tree option) and for yours (using the panes).  It's a strength of MC, not a weakness!

[datdude]

You would have to have the tree view pretty wide on your screen if you wanted to see all characters for every level deep.  You can select whatever panes you want unlike itunes.  The pane view options is what got me hooked on MC.  The tree view/left hand side of the screen has always been a thorn in my side that I hope can go away.  Stop forcing us to use it.  You don't have to use panes if you don't want but the tree view is always  there and doesn't go away.