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[edbro]

I have been thinking about building a PC based DVR for my home entertainment system. I've used MC for over a year but only for music on my laptop. I've read about the TV apps, looked at MythTV, researched a couple of dedicated DVR apps such as SageTV, etc. It is all very confusing. So I have a couple of questions.

1. Can MC11 do all this?
2. Can I hook this up to my TV/Stereo but still use the TV without the PC? I want something simple enough that my wife can use.
3. Would I be better off with a dedicated DVR app or maybe just going with MythTV?
4. Can I record one show while watching a previously recorded show? 2 capture cards?
5. Can the whole thing be controlled in Theater view with a remote or do I need a keyboard?

[glynor]

I am (still) in the process of doing this right now, and I will have a lot to say in reply to your questions...

But not tonight, as the Wife hates it when I'm "talking to the Dog" in the evening (she always sees Matt's avatar when I'm posting here).

I'll formulate my reply soon!

[glynor]

Ok.  I finally have some time to address your questions.

1. Can MC11 do all this?

YMMV, but I would say no.  There are things you can do with MC to "hack together" a true DVR application, but generally MC won't really handle what you are looking for (TiVO replacement).  You can certainly use the built in TV functionality to watch and record TV, and the timeshifting even works (kind-of) but there is no integrated Program Guide and the Timeshifting isn't really up to par with other applications out there.

Frankly, this isn't shocking, as the other non-free DVR applications out there cost signifigantly more than MC.  I, personally, think JRiver would do a great job at building a DVR app integrated with MC if they tried, but we have to convince them that it's worth the effort.

What MC does do is handle "stored media" playback and organization extremely well.  It is really THE BEST media organizer out there.  I, personally, find the Theater View (MC's "10-foot" interface) quite usable.

My current solution is to use a combination of BeyondTV (for Program Guide, recording, timeshifting, and TV Viewing) and then to use MC for managing and playing all of my stored media (audio files, AVI's, OGMs, etc).  On top of that I use WinDVD for DVD playback.  MC does include DVD playback functionality but I've found it's interface lacking (however, since I almost always just AutoGK --> XviD my DVD's I rarely have to actually USE the DVD Player App).

Another great option for a DVR application is SageTV, which is a little more difficult to get going but is overall more powerful than BeyondTV (I own both but use BeyondTV because Sage doesn't fully support my ATI-based card).  Generally, BeyondTV is the "slickest" one out there.  I have found the brand-new v4 to be extremely stable (which couldn't be said for v3.7+ at all).

2. Can I hook this up to my TV/Stereo but still use the TV without the PC? I want something simple enough that my wife can use.

To answer the first question, yes.  If you have a "crappy" TV you might run into problems, but they won't be unsurmountable.  Most mid-sized and better TV's now have at least a handful of AV inputs.  I, personally, don't do it this way though...

When you turn on my TV, it is ALWAYS just a monitor for my computer (connected to the computer via my ATI Videocard's SVideo output).  My stereo isn't really a stereo, but a Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1 system hooked directly up to my computer.  If you already have a nice sound system you should be able to integrate it with little trouble.

The one piece of equipment you WILL need is a TV Tuner card of some kind.  I would strongly recommend that you go with one that has a hardware MPEG-2 (or even MPEG-4/DivX) encoder.  The software-type encoders that come with the cheaper cards (and the ATI AIW video cards) typically just don't cut it.  I have, and love, a Sapphire Theatrix ATI 550Pro-based card.  Hauppage also makes a huge line of TV Tuner cards (which I find to have lower quality video playback than the 550Pro cards, but they are much better supported by many DVR applications).

One really nice feature of both BeyondTV and SageTV (and many others) is their ability to control Set-top Satellite Dish Receivers (such as my old RCA DirecTV box) and Cable-boxes via Serial cables or IR-Blaster devices.

3. Would I be better off with a dedicated DVR app or maybe just going with MythTV?

I like the dedicated app solution better for a few reasons.

1) When you come right down to it, it's just a Windows box.  You don't have to learn how to fix a whole new OS if your TV breaks.

2) Gaming.  One of the reasons I love my HTPC is that I can play Call of Duty (COD2 is arriving from Amazon on Monday) on my 38" TV on the couch!  Plus, Need for Speed, FIFA2006, etc.  On top of that, you can go out and download a few console emulators and you have an old-school NES, SNES, Genesis, etc too!  I bet you forgot how fun playing Mortal Kombat, Zelda, or Double Dragon could be!

3) Flexibility.  If some new "killer" HTPC app comes out, no big deal.  You can get it.  With the dedicated system you're pretty locked in.

4) DRM.  I refuse to fight with my HTPC to be able to re-purpose the TV I record.  I'm not talking about sharing it with millions over P2P, but the ability to convert it to watch on another computer at work (or maybe eventually on an iPod) is a required feature.  With Microsoft's Media Center Edition you have to fight with it to succeed.  I refuse to cede my First Sale and Fair Use rights to the media conglomerates!

(continued in next post)

[glynor]

4. Can I record one show while watching a previously recorded show? 2 capture cards?

You sure can.  Both BeyondTV and SageTV support this (and you don't need two capture cards).  However, if you want to watch one channel while recording another, or two record two programs that air at the same time, you will need two capture devices.  One concept that is a little weird to get used to is that with a DVR application you are NEVER watching real, live TV.  It's always a recording (offset from "live" by 2-3 seconds).  This is how timeshifting works!

I would recommend that you get two different types of capture devices though.  Some of the systems have trouble when you use two ATI 550Pro cards for example.  They'll work the bugs out I'm sure, but it's just easier to get one 550Pro and one Hauppage 250 (or something similar).

5. Can the whole thing be controlled in Theater view with a remote or do I need a keyboard?

I personally use a BUNCH of Input devices, including:

- Wireless Keyboard and Mouse (Microsoft RF)
- Wired Mouse
- ATI Remote Wonder II RF Remote control
- 2 Logitech PS2-style gamepads.
- Belkin n52 Nostromo Game Pad (for FPS fragging from the couch)

You could certainly make do with far less.  Theater View is fully controllable via the Remote out of the box.  If you add Girder and spend the time to set it up you can REALLY be in full control.  Another option is to get right into it and use a PDA with Netremote and design your own interface.  If you go the Remote-Only route, you can certainly use TightVNC (or some other VNC implementation) and connect to your HTPC box from another computer to do all the mouse/keyboard work you need to.

I find it's more satisfying to have the Wireless keyboard available.  Most times it sits on the shelf under my Coffeetable, but it's good to have there when you want to do a quick Google search, tag some files in MC, or just change a couple of BIOS settings on the Motherboard (which you can't do with VNC).

That said, about 90% of the time I do just use the ATI remote to control everything (with an occasional hand on the wireless mouse).  In fact, one of the things I used to convince my Wife that this project was worth-while was that it would get us down to 1 remote (rather than 1 for the TV, one for the Sat Dish, one for the stereo, and one for the computer).  Add that to the massive library of TV shows and Movies I've collected, and she's a happy camper!

As far as usability.  My Wife uses the system (she's a middle-level computer user -- knows how to use Excel and FireFox, knows to go to Add/Remove Programs to uninstall, and knows what "Drive M" means).  When I change something I do have to test it thoroughly and sit her down and explain how to use it, but BeyondTV and MC are really pretty easy to use once they're set up.  When you turn on my TV you see my computer's desktop (with large fonts and big icons), and one is called Media Center and one is called "TV".  Even my mom could use it in a few minutes after I explained what the remote buttons did.  She couldn't have imported new media into MC, but then, that's why I'm there (and my Wife can).

Last, but definitely not least, where to go for more information.  Really, the best place out there to go is AVS Forum.  There is a TON of useful information there, helpful people, and great advice.  JRiver's Interact (here) is also not a bad place to go, as many of us use MC for all kinds of wacky installations.

[edbro]

Thanks glynor,
Certainly a exhaustive reply and I appreciate your help. Especially the link to the AVS forums. It looks like there is good stuff there!

Reading about the MythTV is what got me interested in all of this. There is a flavor called KnopMyth that is supposedly idiot proof, but I'm sure I'd be the exception as I know nothing about Linux and I don't really care to learn a new OS right now.

I've got a lot more research to do and I'm still not convinced that I want a PC sitting in my living room, especially with the accompanying noise. Plus, I have a 3 year old runnning around and it is hard enough to keep him out of the stereo equip I already have. Not sure I'd want him destroying a new PC!

I currently have a DVD based DVR and it does a good job but I can only record up to 4 hrs on a dvd. I'm mostly interested in getting my music to the home stereo. I know I can do that with MC already but I thought if I was going to set it up I might go whole hawg and create a DVR system.

Thanks again.

[glynor]

I've got a lot more research to do and I'm still not convinced that I want a PC sitting in my living room, especially with the accompanying noise. Plus, I have a 3 year old runnning around and it is hard enough to keep him out of the stereo equip I already have. Not sure I'd want him destroying a new PC!

I can certainly appreciate this!!  There are things you can do to mitigate these factors though!  While I don't (yet) have any children, with their associated PBJ-sticky-hands-in-the-DVD-Rom-Drive-Drawer issues, I do have noise concerns and "drunk-friends-spilling-their-margaritas" issues to worry about.  First of all, in the closet is your friend.  I actually had a pre-existing TV "stand" that had lots of space under it, behind a closed door, that accomodated the computer nicely,  but putting the computer in the closet is certainly not out of the question.

With a USB2 Hub for plugging in wired accessories, RF Input devices, and these things from Radio Shack I was able to move ALL of my A/V equipment "out of sight" (except for the TV and speakers of course).  I even actually got a little 15" Samsung LCD monitor to act as the primay video display for the HTPC (which helps when installing new Video Drivers when it disables the TV Out as my primary display) and mounted it on the wall by the couch.  It also helps when you need to read that little text on the screen and the TV's resolution isn't cutting it (and the keyboard is out of reach to hit Ctrl-+ in Firefox).  Just make sure you have ventilation in the closet!

It certainly does take some research though...  Another great place to check is AnandTech as they are constantly reviewing HTPC cases (like this sweet box) and other "low-noise" stuff.  Someone there loves HTPC stuff!

Currently have a DVD based DVR and it does a good job but I can only record up to 4 hrs on a dvd.

Yeah, that's not really enough.   

One of these certainly makes short work of the "recording space" problems (I got one of these as my dedicated DVR drive -- I get about 100 hours at extremely high quality).

[edbro]

There are things you can do to mitigate these factors though!  While I don't (yet) have any children, with their associated PBJ-sticky-hands-in-the-DVD-Rom-Drive-Drawer issues, I do have noise concerns and "drunk-friends-spilling-their-margaritas" issues to worry about.  First of all, in the closet is your friend. 

How do you get video to the TV if the PC is in a closet? I would still have to control the PC via the TV screen.

[glynor]

Well, since I was able to do it, I just went through the back of my TV stand with my wires.  I have a few wires coming in and out of the "closet" for the HTPC setup including:

1. S-Video -- to the TV
2. 6 Speaker cables to the speakers themselves (too bad I didn't have access to the house before the Drywall went up or they'd be in the walls).
3. 1 USB cable -- to a USB2 hub that sits on the TV stand.  Mostly empty but nice for the occasional "USB Flash Drive" and my non-wireless Logitech gamepad.
4. S-Video/2xRCA cables -- to a little RadioShack A/V switchbox that lets me hook up aux components easily (for when someone brings over an XBOX or something similar).  These are fed to inputs on the HTPC.
5. 1 FireWire cable (I use it to hook up my MiniDV camcorder).
6. VGA Cable (which goes to the Samsung LCD monitor I mentioned).

Again, though, I was able to go through the wall in an inconspicuous place (it's behind some stuff).  If you're in a rental, you might not have that luxury.  RadioShack does sell RF A/V Transmitters/Receivers which could (at least) send the Video and stereo audio signals, but I have never tried one.  I'm sure there are other, more professional, versions of those out there too!

If you don't plan to get a secondary monitor (to use other than the TV) I would strongly recommend that you look at TightVNC which will allow you to "remote in" to the HTPC from another computer to do work that requires reading small-font text.

[modelmaker]

RadioShack does sell RF A/V Transmitters/Receivers which could (at least) send the Video and stereo audio signals

I have one of these with an extra reciever for the bed room and it works great. It's 2.5ghz so it's virtually noise free at any reasonable listening levels. It's even quiet using headphones. Video transmission is excellent as well.