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[datdude]

MC12 could seriously benefit from having tabbed icons at the top of the tree view.  The first tab would be the MC icon with the standard tree and action view as it currently is.  Additional icon tabs could be anything from items in the tree view and action window to things like visualizations and a full-fledged playing now list.  The key is that we can choose whatever we want within technical feasibility.

Why change it?

* Space:

It is often a losing battle when the tree view and action window compete for real estate.   Things often get hidden or disorienting when changes between these two components occur resulting in needless scrolling and clicking of arrows and windows boxes.

* Persistency:

Many of our favorite ‘sections’ cannot be permanently displayed and thus we have to make several clicks to get back there.  When an action happens, often times these views are closed to allow other views that may or may not be as important but deemed necessary by MC.   

* Emphasis:

Currently ‘some’ users keep the tree view minimized since they deem it useless ‘most’ of the time and can't be filled with anything else they could use.  JRiver continues to place emphasis on this aspect of MC for various reasons. One of them being for new users who need it to catalogue and find things within MC.  If the tree view is minimized like many of us do, then action items like file properties are not available which of course sucks then having to re-open the tree view.   Why do these things have to clash with each other?

Benefits to users:


Overall it would allow us to view more things at the same time without having to switch back and forth between views.  Simply switch a tab and the main views sitll keeps whatever you were doing in the ifrst place.

Having tabs allows for maximum vertical space of the things we like the most (playing now, file properties etc...) without anything else getting in the way.  They could be designed to switch focus in appropriate situations without bothering the other tabs.

Adding tabs allow new users to have the original tree view immediately available and veteran users to customize it the way they want while still allowing the main tree to do its thing and come to focus, as JRiver deems necessary.

New plugins could be designed with this in mind allowing for numerous creative possibilities (radio lists, lastfm stats, auto MC recommendations, music magic list).  These are not viable in the current scheme since they would be nested away, don't need to take up that much space, and focus away from the main view (which is why they haven’t been created yet).

Seeing that MC just switched to the merged library view, I think this type of radical change is possible within the existing framework.

[hit_ny]

This is one of the great debates that has been raging on for qute a few yrs now.

I think its fair, but feel it benefits if there are a limited number of tabs. I tend to use the vertical gripper to maximise PN. Then when i need to move albums in the tree, i dbl click it so its only a quarter advanced showing me the tree to do what i want. This width is also good enough to see everything in the the action window as well.

So i thought tabs are ok if they fit within this space. More tabs means have to move the gripper further and that won't work. There is another problem as well, it depends on the resolution you use, the more you have, the more tabs you can use. I think this might be the limiting reason tabs have not been introduced to date.

If you had a choice of 5 tabs, what would they show ?

maybe some mockups might get the point across better.

[datdude]

I don't know if you would need 5 tabs but that could be possible, its about what the user wants I would assume it could be dynamic such that there is only one in the beginning and the user can add as many or as little as they like.

As far as what the tabs could be, you could have a a playlist group, a specific playlist, tag info, visualizations, playing now(really important), lyrics, web media, a specific hard drive location, statistics, anyone of the  media formats.

The key is that there are a ton of choices within MC and tabs allow the user to choose which ones they use the most while at the same time eliminating the problems with the current tree view that I listed above.

Of course the first tab would be the standard one that you see now, so there really wouldn't be a draw back.

[hit_ny]

I don't know if you would need 5 tabs but that could be possible, its about what the user wants I would assume it could be dynamic such that there is only one in the beginning and the user can add as many or as little as they like.

As far as what the tabs could be, you could have a a playlist group, a specific playlist, tag info, visualizations, playing now(really important), lyrics, web media, a specific hard drive location, statistics, anyone of the  media formats.

I mentioned 5 as the mamximum i could use for icon tabs and my current resolution.

Need to understand the exact play here between the various sections.

Tree - PN - Action Window.
It's quite useful to have these 3 visible duing tagging. A tabbed view would give you
tree - PN or action window - PN, not as good as all 3.

Many times it was asked to have action window maximised to cover the tree, but that was shot down as not being intuitive to beginners. A tabbed view would be in the same boat so no go.

So let the first tab be exactly like it is now.
second tab maybe action window
third tab, 4th tab playlists & smartlist groups.

Thing is you can kind of get at what you need right now without any need for tabs.

Can you put it another way, why tabs are needed. What can't be done ?

[datdude]

Ok, the lite version of playing now sucks.  It is only maximized when the tree is minimized, nothing else is  active in the action view, AND already have it full of tracks, plus no visualization so THAT can't be done.

As before, the first tab would be as is, and users would not get lost since its there and would take a right click to add tabs at the top.  Granted JRiver might not agree but from that usability perspective, it would work well for new and experienced users.

Yes, you can get to MOST things however they have various viewing problems with them as listed above in the first post as the reasoning for having tabs.

They are maximised, they don't go away at odd times,  and the user does not have to click 2 -3 times to get back to that 'sweet spot'. 

Due to the current state of the tree/action view I rarely use it at all since it too difficult to manage only what I want.

Tabs allow you to customize that AND allow the new users to only see ONE tab and not get confused.

On top of that I think there are plug ins that could take advantage of this that could create many possibilities not available with the current stickied tree view and changing large view which I would actually prefer not to change from my standard library browser and would rather change things with tabs on the left since that is much smaller and prevents from having to switch views and then hit the back and forward buttons.

The whole point is that it is customisable beyond the first tab.  It doesn't have to be anything, it doesn't have to be play lists, it could simply be on thing from the action window that is always stickied because of how YOU use MC not how JRiver  thinks you use it which for them, the current view is obviously intended for new users.  NOt that pro users don't use it or don't like it but myself and others find it not as useful since we just want to browse and play.  Tabs would give us other functionality that could be stickied.

[Marty3d]

On order to get MC more user friendly, I believe that it should be more action-based.
The tabs would be great to actually let the user select what she wants to do.
Like:
1. Playing now
- Shows only files being played. No editing.
2. Tagging/Editing
- Here you can do the various maintenance veterans do all the time
3. Ripping
- Well...


You get the picture? I believe the interface would be much clearer and connected to what users intend to do instead of trying to present all at once.

/Martin

[Mr ChriZ]

I reckon all this could be better done if the tree was 100% configurable.
This way the persistancy problem could be solved.  (put the view you want one click away)
The space problem would be solved (View only what you want to view)
etc

A tree at the end of the day has all the functions of a tab bar, it's just vertical and more compressable.

[Mr ChriZ]

On order to get MC more user friendly, I believe that it should be more action-based.
The tabs would be great to actually let the user select what she wants to do.
Like:
1. Playing now
- Shows only files being played. No editing.

Do you never do editing from Playing Now?
I use this all the time! 

[Marty3d]

Do you never do editing from Playing Now?
I use this all the time! 

Of course I do, but with a more action-based interface, this could be split up so one would a clearer view on things.
Difference is that at parties for example, now the guests (with or without "party mode") easily could change your tags. With an action-based interface, this would perhaps only be available within the "edit" tab, which could be locked in party mode or something.

In the edit section (of my imaginary MC), you could have a playing now list or any view you'd like, but with emphasize on editing possibilities.

[Mr ChriZ]

In my mind party mode should have an option to ban editing regardless of where you are...

[datdude]

I reckon all this could be better done if the tree was 100% configurable.
This way the persistancy problem could be solved.  (put the view you want one click away)
The space problem would be solved (View only what you want to view)
etc

A tree at the end of the day has all the functions of a tab bar, it's just vertical and more compressable.

It would be nice if it was editable however I don't know if that would be as clean.  I that were to be the case we might as well just go with vertical split views!  Tabs just make it more easily selectable.

The tree view you would still have to worry about size issues simply because of everything else already there and when an event happens, worry about the whole disoriented feel it causes('hey man where did my box go?').

I think the options are either vertical split views, or tabs.  If you had to choose I would go with tabs.

I don't consider a more configurable tree view to be an answer unless you have a great idea?

[Marty3d]

Just a quick history lesson:

Back in the days (MC/MJ version 8 or 9) we had this discussion. One of the arguments against tabs from JRiver were that tabs would be too complicated for inexperienced users.

Now, since MC has evolved far beyond inexperienced Windows users, this argument is not accurate anymore.

Just my 2 öres...

Thanks for your time

[tcman41]

Tabs would be awesome much like tabbed browsing in the firefox browser. Have 5 or 6 tabs at the top of the screen and  have each one can be customized by the owner as he see's fit, i see awesome things in this concept.

TC

[Quixote]

If Tab creation could be configured to work like Firefox middle-click that would be that cat's meow.  That is the most used/valuable feature for me in Firefox, and I could see MC benefitting from it too.  When I want to use other views, middle-click (or right-click then select "Open in New Tab" for those middle-clickless micen) and bam! the View opens in a new tab.