Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[zxsix]

I coulda swore I read this here before but couldn't find the answer using the search.....

Anyway,  artist ABC has 10 individual albums and 1 greatest hits.
The songs aren't remixes or anything, so they are not unique.

I would prefer not to have duplicate songs on the hard drive.
I do want the greatest hits compilation listed though, as that's probably what I'll end up syncing to a portable device.

So, I'd like to have in the database 2 records pointing to the same physical file.  Like so.....   Will MC allow this?

Artist  Song   Album1      f:\music\artist\album1\song.mp3
Artist  Song   HitsAlbum  f:\music\artist\album1\song.mp3

[EpF]

One way of doing this is to replace the MC Album field with your own custom one, which would be a semicolon delimited field.  That way you could have more than one album entry for one track.

I also remember seeing more in-depth discussion of this topic, but I'm too lazy to search it out at the moment (long day); if you spend more time at it I'm sure you'll find some posts...

[meep]

zxsix

I've just posted a similar query (should have read through new posts first!). It's been on my mind for a few weeks.

My idea was for MC to support aliasing of tracks so that one could set up alias in the Greatest Hits album to tracks on other albums.

Apparently the ability to do this depends on the rip format for some reason. I await further details.....

Peter

[hit_ny]

This has been an ongoing request for some time now. It's yet to be filled

I suspect there is not a clear cut solution for it as yet.

- i suggested some time back that the alias be a windows shortcut. Of course if you move this shortcut as might happen if you re-org directories, one would expect MC to update it, rather than doing it manually. So "just" removing broken links is not adequate, but realising if any of the items in the folder need to be updated after the move.

How easy/practical this is to do, i have no idea but it makes things easier for the user.

- Others have suggested APL files for formats other than APE.

If you have any ideas, do shout out.

[meep]

Hi

I would not expect this to be a filesystem congig issue. I would expect MC to offer support for alias linking within it's own internal data storage structuires (not au fait with how MC manages internal data but I have seen reference to databse queries and the like on here so i assume some form of structured data management).

I'd like to be able to left-click an empty line in an album and have an "Add Alias..." option. That option would allow me select an existing track from the library which would then be virtually added to my album.

Peter

[Alex B]

This is on my unpublished wish list too.

APL files (=link files, currently usable only with Monkey's Audio format) could be used for this. APL files would also act as physical containers for file tags and with them it would be easier to make file renaming, moving, serving, burning and conversions to work.

Currently it is possible make virtual tracks with cue sheets, but that is not a simple task to do or maintain afterwards.

[dcwebman]

I'm not sure how most people pick songs to listen to, but I usually use just the Audio tree. It's been so long since I installed my first version of MC but I think the first default tree under Audio is Artist/Album. If within here, I could mix Playlists, that would solve this situation. I could pick the artist and along with the Albums listed there I could create a playlist. That way I could create complete playlists for each album pointing to the same song if necessary.

I started trying this concept in the Playlist area by creating Playlist Groups for the artist names and then creating the Playlists for the albums. It works fine but it's a pain to set up. That's why if playlists could be mixed within the automated, it should work fine.

But of course an alias would do it too.

[Alex B]

Here is an example of how I did a compilation album using tracks from separate albums.

Rock Theatre is a rare German Genesis compilation album from the 70s. I have it on vinyl, but not on CD. I have all early Genesis standard studio albums on CD and I have ripped them. Unfortunately that vinyl LP is in bad shape. Luckily the only unique track on it is in reasonable condition. So I recorded only that track and fixed it as well as I could with an audio editor. I gathered the other 5 tracks from the standard studio albums. I used CUE files because I wanted to avoid duplicate files. After that I tagged the virtual tracks properly and added a scanned cover art image. I am not going to listen to this album often (if ever). I just wanted to include it in my collection.

The album looks like this in MC:



Here are the 5 cue files I used for adding the virtual tracks:

Code: [Select]

PERFORMER "Genesis"
TITLE "Rock Theatre"
FILE "X:\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound\02 - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrope).mpc" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrope)"
    PERFORMER "Genesis"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00


Code: [Select]

PERFORMER "Genesis"
TITLE "Rock Theatre"
FILE "X:\Genesis\Nursery Cryme\05 - Harold The Barrel.mpc" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Harold The Barrel"
    PERFORMER "Genesis"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00


Code: [Select]

PERFORMER "Genesis"
TITLE "Rock Theatre"
FILE "X:\Genesis\Nursery Cryme\06 - Harlequin.mpc" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Harlequin"
    PERFORMER "Genesis"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00


Code: [Select]

PERFORMER "Genesis"
TITLE "Rock Theatre"
FILE "X:\Genesis\Nursery Cryme\07 - The Fountain Of Salmacis.mpc" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Fountain Of Salmacis"
    PERFORMER "Genesis"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00


Code: [Select]

PERFORMER "Genesis"
TITLE "Rock Theatre"
FILE "X:\Genesis\Foxtrot\06 - Supper's Ready.mpc" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Supper's Ready"
    PERFORMER "Genesis"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

Easy as pie, isn't it?

[Alex B]

Peter Gabriel wears a nice suit in this cover photo.   

An alias system would be needed for separate tagging, playcount and cover art. Playlists can contain only the original track info.

[hit_ny]

Re: Alex's method of making compilations

I guess you could save the album as a MPL file after dragging the cues into PN and all tagging is done.  and then get rid of the cue files.

It's a pity that you could not just add the tracks from differnet albums and make a MPL of it, directly that way. Since the album name of the added tracks would be that from the original album it came from. Changing it to represent the compilation album will result in it being changed in the orignal place as well.

Or could you ....

Just add what tracks you want into PN for the compilation. Save as MPL. Edit the [Album] tags in MPL to reflect the compilation name. Then import the MPL as new album.

Would that work ?

[Alex B]

Or could you ....

Just add what tracks you want into PN for the compilation. Save as MPL. Edit the [Album] tags in MPL to reflect the compilation name. Then import the MPL as new album.

Would that work ?

All library items must have unique filenames.

It will work if you edit the mpl file a bit more: add ;1 after the filename and a valid playback range. "0-0" means the whole file.

Like here:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<MPL Version="2.0">
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">X:\Genesis\Foxtrot\06 - Supper's Ready.mpc;1</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">Genesis</Field>
<Field Name="Album">Rock Theatre</Field>
<Field Name="Name">Supper's Ready</Field>
<Field Name="File Type">mpc</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Progressive Rock</Field>
<Field Name="Comment">Virtual Album</Field>
<Field Name="Image File">X:\Genesis\Rock Theatre\Rock Theatre - Front.jpg</Field>
<Field Name="Media Type">Audio</Field>
<Field Name="Last Played">1120194679</Field>
<Field Name="File Size">193</Field>
<Field Name="Duration">1375</Field>
<Field Name="Number Plays">1</Field>
<Field Name="Track #">6</Field>
<Field Name="Date Created">1120191947</Field>
<Field Name="Date Modified">1120191947</Field>
<Field Name="Date Imported">1120192021</Field>
<Field Name="Replay Gain">-9,3859399999999997</Field>
<Field Name="Peak Level">1</Field>
<Field Name="Intensity">1</Field>
<Field Name="BPM">90</Field>
<Field Name="Date">27395</Field>
<Field Name="Playback Range">0-0</Field>
<Field Name="CUE track">Y (virtual)</Field>
<Field Name="Album Gain">-9,3859395980834961</Field>
</Item>
</MPL>

If you want to use the same physical track file in several virtual albums you must add a different number to each filename instance. (;2, ;3, etc)

[hit_ny]

Hah, It's possible in theory, but workable only if directories where the original tracks came from never moved. A bit limiting !!!

What to do if they were moved ?

Another tag required to indicate the track was a compilation track [Compil track]
Another tag to indicate its original path [Compil track Path],
which could be filled by a copy from [Filename(path)]

A smartlist /expression that checked that current [Filename(path)] was the same as
[Compil track Path]

If so, then fine else list track, this will be the list of orphaned compiled tracks.

This could be simplified if MC (in the next iteration) could check whether there were any library references to a track before moving it. If so then update those references in the library with the new location. This might also fix moving cue files

And combined with meep's suggestion below ...

.. to be able to left-click an empty line in an album and have an "Add Alias..." option. That option would allow me select an existing track from the library which would then be virtually added to my album.

[Nolonemo]

Warning: this is not a helpful comment   

With huge hard drives consistently popping up for sale at under $0.50 per GB, it's far cheaper for me to store extra tracks than spend the time going through the gymnastics to work up a coding system...which by the way, locks you into MC.  I just don't care about the dupes.

[hit_ny]

Agreed, in that case export library to MPL, then XSL transform to whatever format the next app requires it. Assuming it can import XML.

But in the meantime...hehe

[glynor]

If only Windows supported "ln -s".  Sigh...

[hit_ny]

NTFS does..

..if you mean mounting directories

*Edit*

ln -s is shortcuts in windows.

I thought this might be the way to go with virtual files but there is one downside compared to the way its currently implmented.Shortcuts are outside MC, one degree removed, so if files they pointed to were moved, i doubt there would be a way for MC  to update them.

Also more clutter in the album directories.

[modelmaker]

Warning: this is not a helpful comment   

With huge hard drives consistently popping up for sale at under $0.50 per GB, it's far cheaper for me to store extra tracks than spend the time going through the gymnastics to work up a coding system...which by the way, locks you into MC.  I just don't care about the dupes.

I agree here, I just keep the dupes. For the amount of memory a few greatest hits or compilation albums use, it ain't worth all the trouble!

Alex: Check your PM.

[ChrisRainman]

Warning: this is not a helpful comment

With huge hard drives consistently popping up for sale at under $0.50 per GB, it's far cheaper for me to store extra tracks than spend the time going through the gymnastics to work up a coding system...which by the way, locks you into MC. I just don't care about the dupes.

I agree here, I just keep the dupes. For the amount of memory a few greatest hits or compilation albums use, it ain't worth all the trouble!

Alex: Check your PM.

Your argument is ok for users who don't care about a well-organized library. It's not only disk space but also a problem of having inconsistent ibrary tags. If there are multiple releases of a song you need to tag it multiple times. Moreover, it's likely you assigned different tag values.

So I would be very interested in a MC solution that handles "virtual" files and I'm sure a lot of users would also be happy.

[EpF]

So I would be very interested in a MC solution that handles "virtual" files and I'm sure a lot of users would also be happy.

This user definitely would! 

[meep]

Indeed, as long as it's not some filesystem hack. True aliasing or 'pointers' within MC itself.

Make it so

Peter

[hit_ny]

It's there already internally, (as Alex has long said), i only seem to have got it recently. It takes some work. Don't want to wait another year for a stable build

What is required is the front-end as was suggested by meep. In any case i have started to use MPLs for this already. It works. I use another tag CUE Path that includes the path of where the original mp3 is, that way i have a smartlist that knows if tracks go missing in the event of a move.

I used MPLs for cue files, as i dont like to import into the library without listening first.

I have a system here that ensures the same 'best quality' track out of all the dupes is always picked for inclusion in random smartlists, while retaining the others for "complete album" playback should I want to do that. I've not tackled creating or maintaining virtual albums as yet.

Go on then

[EpF]

It's there already internally ... It takes some work.

That's the problem; it takes some work - a lot actually.  It'd take me forever to create the mpl's for all the dups I have!

Anyway, I'd like to see a system implemented for creating tags independently from files altogether, so that you could also have auto-tagging such as; all tracks by certain artists get tagged with certain genres or certain artist-ratings; all tracks of a certain genre get tagged with certain genre-ratings; etc.  That's what I'd like! 

[hit_ny]

Anyway, I'd like to see a system implemented for creating tags independently from files altogether, so that you could also have auto-tagging such as; all tracks by certain artists get tagged with certain genres or certain artist-ratings; all tracks of a certain genre get tagged with certain genre-ratings; etc.  That's what I'd like! 

Actually it is independent of the file. MC treats the link as a unique file (internally that is).

I'd prefer that the blue icon (mp3 in my case) be slightly different for CUE files tho.

Auto-tagging will work for some artists in my collection, the rest don't like to be pigeon-holed, i would say they are genre benders not entirely in this genre or the other. Sub genres is too much work.

In any case you can do this yourself with the Locate->Artist and set all genres from there no ? But you have too many artists heh.

[modelmaker]

Quote from ChrisRainMan:

Your argument is ok for users who don't care about a well-organized library. It's not only disk space but also a problem of having inconsistent ibrary tags. If there are multiple releases of a song you need to tag it multiple times.

I kind of resent this comment. Just because I don't organize my library your way, does not mean it's not "well-organized" or that I don't care. The whole point of MC is to be able to organize things any way you wish. My system works very well for the way I use MC.

For myself and my friends, I have no need to tag everything to the nth degree. I use genres (less than 10) and the ?-5 ratings based on my preferences and dupes are always rated with ? if they are qualitivly the same or less than the original. Sometimes (oh my god! ) I may even replace the tbe original with a better quality duplicate (from a greatest hits album) and tag it as original!

I don't use a lot of smartlists to filter songlists for a portable as my portable (the carputer) is a duplicate of the HTPC. I use about a half dozen smartlists.

I guess my point is simply that not everyone needs or wants to use every single tool that MC has. And MC gives us the freedom to use it anyway we want.

[Fex]

I agree here, I just keep the dupes. For the amount of memory a few greatest hits or compilation albums use, it ain't worth all the trouble!...

I kept all my dupes until now.

But the result of my smartlist 'Possible duplicates' cries for a solution. There are currently 15'270 Files (81.0 GB - 43.3 days). So I think it could be worth to think about another way.

[EpF]

Auto-tagging will work for some artists in my collection, the rest don't like to be pigeon-holed, i would say they are genre benders not entirely in this genre or the other. Sub genres is too much work.

I agree; I assign tracks on the same albums to different genres.  As for sub genres, how many genres do you have?  I have 106 and still have trouble classifying some tracks!  So obviously I'd need a manual override in any auto-tagging scenario...

But you have too many artists heh.

Oh yes!   

[hit_ny]

I guess next step to discuss is criteria to select which of the dupes gets to stay.

I have a system where if a track is mixed with others i have a tag [Mixed] set to either Y or N. Removing the Y, i get half as much dupes but still 10+GB.

But it's really the tracks that have the same name and similar time range that are the ideal targets. Am not sure how to code an expression for that 

[glynor]

NTFS does..

..if you mean mounting directories

*Edit*

ln -s is shortcuts in windows.

It looks like you may have "kinda" gotten it there at the end, but "ln -s" in *NIX creates a symlink (symbolic or soft link).  This works similarly to Window's shortcuts, but much more robustly (a symlink actually works just like the actual file in FAR more cases than a windows shortcut - which are typically only seamless for folders, and only then if the applicaton is "shortcut aware").

However, I did make a mistake.  The real thing we would want Windows to support would be hard links (ln without the "-s").  These would continue to work even if the original file were moved, because hard links are just that cool.

If you happen to use SAMBA on a Linux box to serve your files, you can set up hard links for any files you want "mirrored".  Just remember that the file tags will have to be the same for each "copy" of the file (MC's database can have them in multiple Albums, but the ID3 tag will be stored only in the one true "master" copy).

[dcwebman]

bump...  Hey, Alex said this could be bumped.    It really would be nice to have some kind of pointer system for MP3's.