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[Mr ChriZ]

I know this was discussed some time ago,
when the whole breadcrumb idea was originally brought up.
However having used it for a month or too, I wonder what
peoples opinions are on it now?

I don't feel it affords clicking, to get back up to the layer above.
I'd like to see a proper button to do this.
It just feels unpleasant at present!

[Matt]

Use the back button on your mouse.

[Doof]

I've missed a bunch of stuff, it seems.

What's the breadcrumb idea?

[Mr ChriZ]

breadcrumbs...

My new mouse has no back button.
My last one did have back/forward buttons but I always turned them
off because I accidently tapped them!

It never dawned on me that I could use Alt-Left,Alt Right,
thats an improvement, but most users aren't using keyboard shortcuts,
and I can't be the only one with a mouse without a back button!

[Doof]

Ah, ok.

I actually really like the breadcrumbs. I'll tell you what I don't like, though. I personally hate the View menu.

I really wish there was an option that double clicking on the thumbnail just drills you down to the next level. The Play menu can handle sending things to Playing Now. To me, a double click on the thumbnail seems much more intuitive as a drill down. I don't know how many times I started playing an entire genre when I only meant to go down to the Artist level.

[Matt]

If you use bigger thumbs or smaller view schemes, you'll get single click links to drill in. (instead of the view drop menu)

[Doof]

Yeah, I've seen that, and it's kind of nice. But I'd still like to just be able to double click and drill down. Then once I get to the file level, a double click can send to playing now or whatever I have set in options.

[Mr ChriZ]

Yeah, I've seen that, and it's kind of nice. But I'd still like to just be able to double click and drill down. Then once I get to the file level, a double click can send to playing now or whatever I have set in options.

Yeh that sounds good to me too =)

[hit_ny]

How to tell the diff between a dbl click to drill down and a dbl click to play ?

[Matt]

Double-click always plays.

As long as they're single click access into a tile, it doesn't seem worth breaking that convention.

[Mr ChriZ]

How to tell the diff between a dbl click to drill down and a dbl click to play ?

Ah, didn't think of that!

[stuart_tetley]

I like the 'breadcrumbs' feature a lot too (which I found by accident by pressing Alt-Left arrow as I would in a web browser.

It seems to me it may make sense to keep the mini toolbar with the browser buttons (that appear in the 'Start' area) throughout the various media library areas, and also put the other new options in there too.

Kinda hard to describe in words, so I mocked up how it might look in Photoshop:



Not sure the 'refresh' button would be that useful, though

[Dutch Peter]

May I add that I dislike that it sometimes takes a click to open a dropdown, and sometimes it happens on 'mouse over'.
It is not consistent.
 

Stuart:
I like your mock-up!!

[Deivit]

I like the 'breadcrumbs' feature a lot too (which I found by accident by pressing Alt-Left arrow as I would in a web browser.

It seems to me it may make sense to keep the mini toolbar with the browser buttons (that appear in the 'Start' area) throughout the various media library areas, and also put the other new options in there too.

Kinda hard to describe in words, so I mocked up how it might look in Photoshop:



Not sure the 'refresh' button would be that useful, though

You probably know that, but you can customize your top or bottom toolbar by adding those and many other buttons, so that they are always visible wherever you are in the program. Just right click anywhere on the bottom toolbar and choose "Customize Toolbar". Sorry if it was obvious to you.

[Dutch Peter]

It would be nice if the 'library toolbar' could be customized also.

[Doof]

How to tell the diff between a dbl click to drill down and a dbl click to play ?

The idea is that the "Play" link stays where it is. So if you want to play the whole album, you can just click that link. But if you want to drill down further to play just a single file, you can double click the album and get to the file level.

Maybe it's just me. But having this behavior as an option would be really nice. I realize the View menu is often quicker to get right to the files, but if you're just browsing, then being able to double click on a genre and see the list of Artists that are there would be nice.

[rebootjac]

I agree with you too Doof. The problem I think with the view is that the thumbnails look too much like folders. It's hard to get used to something that doesn't follow normal computer behavior. MC with their album views is terrific but I keep thinking they are just winxp thumbnailed folders.. so I catch myself doing the same thing you do (double-clicking them).

Also, combined with the fact that the tree view on the left side follows the drill down rule (although single-click) it does still drill down. The combination of these two navigational systems on the same screen therefore presents a UI paradigm for the user imo.

It is my understanding that when a user sets up their own viewscheme, that user is explicitly saying they want their properties viewed in a certain order. It's like creating subfolders or a system to traverse thru. MC ALWAYS returns to this same system you setup when you click on the viewscheme so behavior-wise, it should be as simple as possible to navigate thru from beginning to end no? It's easy for  a user using the current hover links that show up to traverse thru viewschemes such as Artist/Album... but what if you have something like "Styles/Genre/Intensity/BPM/Artist/Album"? The dropdown menu that results breaks your organization = counter-productive.

What would be cool is if MC could interactively switch (based on the size of the viewscheme) or just let the user decide the navigational behavior in the options.

[hit_ny]

The idea is that the "Play" link stays where it is. So if you want to play the whole album, you can just click that link. But if you want to drill down further to play just a single file, you can double click the album and get to the file level.

I realize the View menu is often quicker to get right to the files, but if you're just browsing, then being able to double click on a genre and see the list of Artists that are there would be nice.

I'm trying to visualise what happens when you dbl click a thumbnail.

- Do the thumbnails get replaced by a detailed files list of that album ?

When you single click an album currently, it's tracks are automatically show in the details list below.


- Do i see as many track thumbnails as there are tracks in the album ?
Not sure how useful this is.

[Doof]

Ok, let's say you have an Image View Scheme of Picture Type/Album/Sub Album 1/Sub Album 2 (like I do).

You open the view scheme and see your Picture Types. In my case that's Personal and Non Personal.

I'd like to just double click on Personal and then see all the Album thumbnails. Double click on an Album and see all the Sub Album 1s that belong to that album. Then if I wanted to play that entire Sub Album 1, I could just click the Play link that's already there. If wanted to continue down, I could double click on a Sub Album 2 and then get to just the files. At this point, because there's no deeper level I can get to based on the way this View Scheme is set up, double clicking on a file plays it.

The way it is now, if I want to ultimately navigate to the file level, but still have the list narrow down for me as I get there, I have to hover over the Personal thumbnail, click View, click Album, then hover over the Album I want, click View, click Sub Album 1, hover over the Sub Album 1 that I want, click View, click Sub Album 2, hover over the Sub Album 2 I want, click View, click Files, THEN I can double click the file I want. If, in the beginning, I just hover over Personal, click View, and go straight to Files, then I have my entire list of Personal pictures.

You kind of lose the ease of narrowing down your list of pictures the way it is. The panes are still easier to navigate in that sense. Just double clicking on a thumbnail to drill down would make this whole thing much easier and faster to navigate and eliminiate a ton of clicking. I think the View menu has its place. It's nice to be able to jump straight to the Files level if you want, but when you want MC to also narrow down your list of files as you navigate, then it's a real pain.

[Matt]

Again:

If you use bigger thumbs or smaller view schemes, you'll get single click links to drill in. (instead of the view drop menu)

A single click is less clicking than a double click.

[Doof]

If I want my default Images view scheme to show all of the single click links, then my thumbnails have to be an obscenely large size.

It's really not about the number of cllicks. It's about how long it takes to get to where you can do the clicking. A thumbnail is a nice big target. A little link, not so much. Especially when your view scheme is just long enough that you can't see all of the links and so everything gets buried under the View menu. A double click really doesn't take any longer to execute than a single click (espcially when you have a button on your mouse programmed to execute a double click). But navigating to the thumbnail is a hell of a lot faster than navigating the links.

I'm not asking to have the links or the View menu or any of that to go away. I'm just asking for the option (I know you hate that word) to double click the thumbnails to drill down. A simple radio button...

* Double Click Moves Down a Level
0 Double Click Plays

[hit_ny]

* Double Click Moves Down a Level
0 Double Click Plays

I have dbl click queue to the end of PN. I've been burnt in the past, create a playlist only to lose it by accidentally dbl clicking in a viewscheme. right click->add to PN is the way i do it now.

Reading your post i get the impression, drilling down by dbl click is most useful in image viewschemes ie thumbnail folders in explorer where the file level could be thumbnails that you see instantly than say in an audio viewschemes (right?)

It's hard to have a one size fits all for differnet types of media.

[skeeterfood]

I totally agree with Doof on this one.

I have my main Audio view scheme set up as:
Decade /Genre / Artist / Album.

I never want to play all files from a particular Decade, or Genre, so the current double-click operation is basically useless to me.  I don't want HUGE tiles, so I'm stuck navigating a drop-down menu for my everyday browsing.  I spend more time browsing the files, than I do adding them to playing now, so it should be the one with the simplest operation.  There are already three ways (play link, right-click menu, Play button) to play the files, so why do I need to waste another one with the double-click?

-John

[Matt]

We'll try it for a build.  It does feel nice to me after trying it.

We're happy with any solution except "make it optional, or better yet, optional per view scheme and page inside the view scheme."

[Doof]

I have dbl click queue to the end of PN. I've been burnt in the past, create a playlist only to lose it by accidentally dbl clicking in a viewscheme. right click->add to PN is the way i do it now.

Reading your post i get the impression, drilling down by dbl click is most useful in image viewschemes ie thumbnail folders in explorer where the file level could be thumbnails that you see instantly than say in an audio viewschemes (right?)

It's hard to have a one size fits all for differnet types of media.

Yeah, the option should honor whatever you set your default double click behavior to be.

And it's not really about just images. Let's say you have every CD that Johnny Cash ever put out, and you want to add Folsom Prison Blues and I Walk The Line to a playlist. You know they're on the I Walk The Line album, so it's easier to find them if you can quickly navigate right to that album rather than try to sift through all the songs that were on the 100+ Johnny Cash albums you have.

We use View Schemes to narrow the list of songs down until we find what we're looking for. With the library browser as it is now, you can easily jump to the list of files in a genre, or an artist, but if you want to narrow the list down as you navigate the library, then continuously having to go the View menu can be a real pain. If all the links are able to be shown, great. And this works for really simple view schemes, but for a more complicated view scheme, then you find yourself going to the View menu a lot. Sometimes even if you have the thumbnail size cranked all the way up.

[Doof]

We'll try it for a build.  It does feel nice to me after trying it.

We're happy with any solution except "make it optional, or better yet, optional per view scheme and page inside the view scheme."

Thanks, Matt!

[glynor]

Thanks for fighting this fight Doof.  I love the new system because of the exact reason you describe.  Everywhere in Windows, you double click on items to open them and "drill down" to the next level.  If there is no next level, then it "opens/plays" that item.  If you want it to open a whole folder of items, you need to do something extra (not the other way around).  The old MC way was counter-intuitive, and it always bothered me.

I've just been too busy with work and classes to visit the forum as much as I'd like, or else I'd have been fighting this fight right with you.

[Doof]

Yeah, this view is perfect for me now. I hope everybody else agrees, because I'd really like to see this stay.

[glynor]

Same here.  I actually had to disable and not use at all the new Tiles View system because no one else seemed to be able to use it properly and all I got was complaints.  This irked me because it really had so much potential, and was one of the best new features of MC 11.1.

Now, it's so intuitive that I'm sure my mom could use it, and the single-click Breadcrumbs navigation just takes the cake!  I actually just went through and switched most of my main view schemes over from Details view to the new Tile View.

We'll have to see what the wife says tonight, but I think she'll like it.

Now, if only Theater View worked the EXACT same way, only in the context of the simplified Theater View-type display!

[Mr ChriZ]

Now, it's so intuitive that I'm sure my mom could use it, and the single-click Breadcrumbs navigation just takes the cake!  I actually just went through and switched most of my main view schemes over from Details view to the new Tile View.

Had my Mom using it for a while now :-)
My Dad now that could be a challenge 

Love the new system.  I think it would make more sense if the views defaulted to tile view.
Guess I'm outvoted in the up button for the breadcrumbs but I guess something came of it at least!

Slight OT but:
Heres a Screenshot from todays build.
I still think it would be so nice to get to the following :-
Screenshot
Which I photoshopped a month ago...

[glynor]

Had my Mom using it for a while now :-)
My Dad now that could be a challenge 

I should have said, "my mom could use it without me showing her how."

 

[park]

And it's not really about just images. Let's say you have every CD that Johnny Cash ever put out, and you want to add Folsom Prison Blues and I Walk The Line to a playlist. You know they're on the I Walk The Line album, so it's easier to find them if you can quickly navigate right to that album rather than try to sift through all the songs that were on the 100+ Johnny Cash albums you have.

We use View Schemes to narrow the list of songs down until we find what we're looking for. With the library browser as it is now, you can easily jump to the list of files in a genre, or an artist, but if you want to narrow the list down as you navigate the library, then continuously having to go the View menu can be a real pain. If all the links are able to be shown, great. And this works for really simple view schemes, but for a more complicated view scheme, then you find yourself going to the View menu a lot. Sometimes even if you have the thumbnail size cranked all the way up.

For precisely this reason I'd love to see a "View Files" link appear over album thumbnails in the bottom list when you hover over it for a while. I imagine it would work a lot like "Locate/Album" does now, except that it would jump you through all the all the levels of the tiles leaving a nice trial of breadcrumbs with it (allowing you to do spider diagram style backwards browsing), and of course it would automatically change the bottom view from "Album Thumbnails" to "Details".

I really hope that people like that idea. But it seems pretty difficult to pull off. Maybe MC12?

[datdude]

We'll try it for a build.  It does feel nice to me after trying it.

We're happy with any solution except "make it optional, or better yet, optional per view scheme and page inside the view scheme."

I like it as well.  However when drilling down to the album level, you should be able to double click and play & there should be an option like there used to be that all files for that album play in track order even when the sorting is different.

[Jakester]

What build has this new click notation?  I think I'll like this too.

Also, I always find myself clicking something in the tree view on the LHS and changing the wrong window on the RHS.  I'd like to be able to create two separate trees, each one with only the top-level data types I want, for each window on the RHS.  No need to make sure the correct window is 'active' before selecting a media type.  That would be nice!

[Doof]

What build has this new click notation?  I think I'll like this too.

Also, I always find myself clicking something in the tree view on the LHS and changing the wrong window on the RHS.  I'd like to be able to create two separate trees, each one with only the top-level data types I want, for each window on the RHS.  No need to make sure the correct window is 'active' before selecting a media type.  That would be nice!

It first showed up in .151. It's still there in .153.

[Jakester]

Great - thanks

[RhinoBanga]

I like it as well.  However when drilling down to the album level, you should be able to double click and play & there should be an option like there used to be that all files for that album play in track order even when the sorting is different.

I agree with the playing of the album but not that it should ignore the current sort order.

MC is limited in that doesn't recognise the ID3 CD number tag therefore if it were to to play an album with multiple CD's they would be played in the wrong order.   To get around this issue in MC I have organised my files in <Artist>\<Album>\<CD#_TOTCD#>\<TRACK#> - <NAME> and have configured the pane to always sort by filename.

[Matt]

Rhino, next build:
Changed: "Disc #" is mapped to the ID3v2 field "TPOS", or "Part of a set" frame.

[glynor]

I agree with the playing of the album but not that it should ignore the current sort order.

Same here.  That option doesn't work well if you happen to have an "album" full of video files some of which happen to have a track number assigned, and some of which do not.