Topic: Request: kill the action window (Read 8820 times)

Bill Kearney · « **on:** March 29, 2006, 07:36:14 am »

Could you please provide a way to keep the action box from expanding itself all the danged time? I have next to NO use for the actions it offers. What's worse is it wastes screen real estate when on our touchscreen setup. Just give us a boolean that dis/enables it's tendency to open itself back up again all the time.

Frankly, I'd be happy to have it disabled entirely.

hit_ny · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2006, 08:39:53 am »

Requested so many times i've lost count.

Std reply was that it would be confusing to new users.

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:23:00 am »

While I sympathize with the notion that it'd confuse new users, I think that's bunk. The user interface is ALREADY confusing enough, by it's nature its it sort of HAS to be.

Here's an example where it bugs me. Say you're looking at a bunch of tracks and you want to make a blanket change to a genre. The Action Window is currently minimized. You select the tracks, hit Alt-Enter and the Tag Info dialog appears. You edit the genre and

the Tag Info box to close it. For some stupid reason MC11 then raises the danged Action Window! This is irritating. Made even worse when it's running on an 800x600 touchscreen in an AV rack.

This is not the only place the Action Window keeps getting raised. Please, if I minimize a window it's entirely reasonable to expect the danged thing to STAY THAT WAY.

Don't get me wrong, MC11 is amazing and little else comes close, but all this creeping-featuritis seems like it keeps failing to take basic usability into account.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:26:23 am »

I'm trying to imagine using a touch screen on the main interface.
I'd have thought you'd have to have tiny fingers or something!
Why don't you use the theatre view out of curiosity?

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:07:01 am »

Don't get me started on Theatre View. Just simple little things like buttons moving around. For example, go into playlists, select the Change View button. Once it changes it doesn't default to the Change View button, no that'd be TOO OBVIOUS, instead it just leaps to the end of the button list. It should've stayed on the Change View button as a way to make it easy on the user, not confuse them by leaping around. But if that was thought out the Back button would do it. Ick, it's just a mess.

And "Full Screen", How do I disable it?

tcman41 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:16:04 am »

Do away with the action window?, i think not. I use it all the time to correct tag info on my albums and give ratings to them, very fast and handy that way.

I do wish that there was a way to have it hidden 100% of the time and then an option to have it reappear, when not being used it does take up a lot of screen space.

TC

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:19:07 am »

It's kinda difficult to watch DVD's without fullscreen

hit_ny · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:41:30 am »

Quote from: Bill Kearney on March 29, 2006, 10:07:01 am

No thanks, Theatre View just comes across like yet another creeping-feature that's not seen any serious attention paid to anything resembling usability.

I suspect they don't want to compete with other front ends, that integrate with MC, ie
Cinemar's Music Lobby, there is another too but the name escapes me.

If the above is correct, then there won't be changes here.

I'd still expect a basic interface that worked well tho.

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2006, 03:25:23 pm »

I believe it was already stated by Jim in the version 12 suggestions thread that was going a while back that Video playback improvements and Theater View improvements were high on the priority list for version 12.

I personally would rather have the Action Window stay minimized as well. I don't like when it gobbles my screen real estate on my 1024x768 HTPC either (even though I do use it from time to time).

However, I can see their point. It is important enough that for many novice users not finding it could make a lot of features "invisible". It's always difficult for us expert users to try to get into the mind of someone who barely knows what a window is. I work with people who if you minimize something in Windows they'll never find it again and just start over.

I'm not sure what your ranting about Full Screen View was about though. Using MC with visualizations or for video of any kind would be pretty useless without the ability to go fullscreen for playback. Just because you don't have a particular need for the feature doesn't make it useless...

Oh, and why not try building your own "perfect interface" with NetRemote?

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2006, 03:36:09 pm »

It wasn't actually in that thread, it was here... (He didn't mention Theater View, but I suspect that's part of it from other comments he's made.)

He did mention Theater View priority here, and I would suspect that with the Intel VIIV push and all the recent HTPC talk around, that time is fast approaching.

Absurrrd · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2006, 04:05:13 pm »

Greetings and felicitations,
First I'd like to say all the hard work you guys put into media center is appreciated. Perhaps the problem with the action window is whether it should be more customizeable to fill up as much or as little of the pane as the user would like. If you don't like it then turn it off and if you can't live without it give it a sliding feature so it can fill up the entire pane. When you guys first introduced it in a beta it had that ability for the first couple days. I really liked that........ Something to consider..
Best Fishes,
Chris

modelmaker · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:03:36 am »

Yeah, I don't really see why you can't put a "keep action window mininimized" choice in the "gerneral" section of the options.

Keep the install default "maximized" for the new users, but give the rest of us the option of turning it off.

It's present behavior is most annoying!

Tab · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:01:55 pm »

Yes, its one of the 2 things I really dont like about MC11. I would think blundering newcomers could be catered for with a 'restore defaults,' 'show all buttons,' 'help/where has this button gone,' or similar.

MC is mind bogglingly powerful software, I cant help thinking this issue could be approached in a different way that would satisfy everyone.

Tab

Ps is it possible to skin it so that althought its technically there, every part of it is exactly the same colour?

datdude · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2006, 11:58:57 pm »

Quote from: Tab on April 02, 2006, 11:01:55 pm

Yes, its one of the 2 things I really dont like about MC11. I would think blundering newcomers could be catered for with a 'restore defaults,' 'show all buttons,' 'help/where has this button gone,' or similar.

MC is mind bogglingly powerful software, I cant help thinking this issue could be approached in a different way that would satisfy everyone.

Tab

Ps is it possible to skin it so that althought its technically there, every part of it is exactly the same colour?

Oooo. a blind man's MC...

raym · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2006, 01:50:06 am »

What would surely do the trick is if MC remembered your UI settings on exit! I asked a related question recently regarding the left-hand-side navigation tree... With the latest library view enhancements, I'm finding I just don't need this nearly as often as I used to. It takes up valuable screen real-estate and ruins the slick look of the library view IMO. Unfortunately, just like the Action Window, you can hide it but the darn thing keeps comming back! $:-\$

Deivit · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2006, 04:16:09 am »

Most programs (Outlook for instance) have the ability to show-hide the tree and remember the last state.

MC could do the same, show the tree as default for new users and let the most experienced user hide it and remember this state between sessions.

Also, I'd like to see the "Action Window" in 2 possibilities. Docked under the tree as it is now for those novice users and those who like the tree open and a "floating" action window that pops-up when needed. You could invoke it by pressing F2 when not in details view, pressing another hotkey, a toolbar button or it would automatically pop-up if hidden when you try to edit a field. This way, you could always have the tree hidden and do not need to open it to find the action window when you want to edit tags.

hit_ny · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2006, 04:55:24 am »

Alt + Enter brings up the action window

...all you need to remember if it gets lost.

Deivit · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2006, 12:22:54 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on April 03, 2006, 04:55:24 am

Alt + Enter brings up the action window

...all you need to remember if it gets lost.

Yes, but this only works with the tree unhidden. If you hide the tree there is no way (as far as I know) to bring up the action window, therefore you have to unveil the tree, open the action window (alt + enter is Ok here), do your thing and hide the tree again... here's where a "popping-up floating" action window would be welcomed.

Tab · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:01:34 pm »

AIUI the issue is that newbies could close the window then fail to find out how to open it again, fail to work out how to access the functions it contains, and give up on MC in frustration. Maybe another toolbar button could solve that. Theres plenty of space on most such toolbars (the one with file, edit etc).

Tab

LonWar · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2006, 07:29:18 am »

I'm hoping in one of these versions, the tree will be a toast.... Don't really like the AW either.

Tab · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2006, 09:30:45 pm »

How about each window having a minimise button that disappears the window, and simultaneously adds a button to the toolbar for it, so effectively its being minimised to a toolbar? Then users that dont need the action/tree/visi/playlist window can minimise them, but they never get lost.

I dunno.

Tab

mackie824 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2006, 12:32:56 pm »

I also use the library view. The Tree view/action needs to stay minimized after closing and re-opening.. As everyone else has said this is taking up prime real estate. Come on guys please implement this!

Thanks.

Great software by the way

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #22 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:36:32 am »

bump. suppress the action window.

Matt · « **Reply #23 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:44:47 am »

We'll add this to MC 12.

gpvillamil · « **Reply #24 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:00:16 am »

What bugs me about the Action Window is that it is sort of a catch-all for stuff that won't fit anywhere else. It is not integrated or consistent with anything else in the user interface.

For example, the Tools menu covers about 75% of what is in the Action Window, and the AW covers about 25% of what is in the Tools menu. Why not make them 100% consistent?

Some aspects of the AW have a keyboard shortcut, but some do not.

Some things that are in the AW don't have any other reference in the UI - eg. Handheld, doesn't appear in any obvious menus. Maybe in right-click menus in the tree...

It is not clear when the AW will open another "tile" versus just go "deeper" in the same pane.

Why not add an entry to View menu to show/hide the Action Window?

The File Properties are not really that - they are the properties of the SELECTION. Look at the Tag Info or the Statistics entries.

And finally, the title of the Action Window is in ALL CAPS, a design element used nowhere else in MC11.

If the Action Window is the *only* way to access some MC11 functionality, then it needs a bit more attention. If it is to be hidden, then ALL of its functionality needs to be available via menus.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:09:32 am »

Hehe. Nice list gpvillamil. Think you got the most of them.

Quote from: Matt on May 19, 2006, 10:44:47 am

We'll add this to MC 12.

Hurray!
Throw in half star rating while you're at it will you?

gpvillamil · « **Reply #26 on:** May 20, 2006, 07:02:16 am »

Here's a few more:

If you select a file in the list and do Alt-Enter or Right-Click -> Tag Info, then info opens in the Action Window.

All the library tools open a separate dialog.

Choosing to Play/Open the Image (Cover Art) shows the cover art in the Playing Now window, in spite of the fact that the AW actually has File Properties/Image... what is the latter for? If you happen to be playing music, would it not be more convenient to show the cover art in the AW?

The icon for "Print" in the Action Window is exactly the same as the icon for Action Window/File Properties/Image. Bug?

It's called the Action Window - yet some of the items it contains are nouns and some are verbs (actions). I can understand Print, Burn CD & Rip. Yet Build Playlist actually takes you to a submenu starting with... Build Playlist and including 3 other options, two of which have to do with editing, not building, playlists. Shouldn't the top level be Manage Playlists? How about File Properties, Camera & Handheld? These are not actions. As far as I can tell, the only action that Camera does is Acquire Images from Camera, so why not call it Get Images from Camera? (And it is not really just cameras - it actually refers to TWAIN devices, including scanners...)

Aren't there other actions that are more common? For example, Library/Import Media is a much more common action, which actually runs IN the Action Window, yet it is not accessible FROM the AW!

If the AW is supposed to be a sort of Action Wizard, how about the most common actions of all - Play Music, Play Video, Show Images?

Why not make the AW aware of the selection? File Properties pops up something relevant to the selection. Print, then Print File List prints, not the selection but the contents of the current window. However, Burn CD completely disregards the selection.

Sometimes in the AW there is a back arrow to return to previous screen, sometimes you have to click on the underlined title (another UI element used *nowhere else* in MC11). Sometimes the underline returns you to the AW home, sometimes it minimizes the panel. Compare difference in behavior between Print and Tag Info...

Choosing Print... from the File Menu, which you'd expect to take you to a standard system Print dialog, instead opens the two sub-options in the AW. No obvious way to change print settings there.

Conceptually, the AW could be something like common tasks sidebar in explorer, that changes according to the content of the selection. The other mission in life for the AW would be to act as a home for time-consuming background processes, like synchronization, or library updates, or audio analysis. However, it should be clear when the AW is acting in one capacity or the other.

I mean, MC11 is complex, but the AW seems willfully confusing...

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2006, 07:19:39 am »

I'm less worried about the UI inconsistencies than getting rid of things that actually impede my making effective use of MC. The inconsistences are worth addressing, but not if it means pushing simple fixes back further.

Fixes for these annoying issues have been requested over, and over, and over by PLENTY of folks and JRiver keeps ignoring them. Or pushes them off to "the next release" and puts a boatload of other cruft in there instead. This sort of foolishness really prevents me from recommending MC to others. PLEASE, step back and FIX the simple stuff! NOW!

gpvillamil · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:17:47 pm »

Quote from: Bill Kearney on May 20, 2006, 07:19:39 am

I'm less worried about the UI inconsistencies than getting rid of things that actually impede my making effective use of MC. The inconsistences are worth addressing, but not if it means pushing simple fixes back further.

Fixes for these annoying issues have been requested over, and over, and over by PLENTY of folks and JRiver keeps ignoring them. Or pushes them off to "the next release" and puts a boatload of other cruft in there instead. This sort of foolishness really prevents me from recommending MC to others. PLEASE, step back and FIX the simple stuff! NOW!

Yep, I have a real issue explaining MC to others. It just doesn't seem "inviting".

gpvillamil · « **Reply #29 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:21:02 pm »

Oh, if the Action Window is really about actions, then how about "Get Music", which would link to the online stores? Nice high visibility positioning for something which generates revenue.

Tab · « **Reply #30 on:** December 28, 2006, 08:25:32 pm »

gpvillamil: Yep, I have a real issue explaining MC to others. It just doesn't seem "inviting".

AIUI this is why the action window was introduced. It was an attempt to present what is a complex piece of software in a simple way for new users. Its one thing to criticise it, but whats needed is another idea that would achieve the aim of taking a piece of software with more capabilities than the average user discovers in a year and making it easy to use for first timers, without the issues the AW has caused to non-first timers.

A look at how Microsoft went about it in the development of win 95 might make a few principles clear.

Tab

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #31 on:** December 28, 2006, 09:43:02 pm »

Well, if you really want a simple interface wouldn't it be better to improve theatre view or use something along those lines? The action window ends up getting too cluttered anyway, beyond the annoyance of it popping up all the dang time. But hey, give us an option to disable/stifle it's tendency to pop-up in the meanwhile.

modelmaker · « **Reply #32 on:** December 28, 2006, 11:18:52 pm »

Quote from: Bill Kearney on December 28, 2006, 09:43:02 pm

But hey, give us an option to disable/stifle it's tendency to pop-up in the meanwhile.

AMEN!

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #33 on:** December 29, 2006, 06:24:10 am »

I love it when people start responding to a post that hasn't been
responded to for over 6 months, as if it was yesterday

Bill Kearney · « **Reply #34 on:** December 29, 2006, 08:02:55 am »

Were it not an issue that resonated with people they wouldn't respond. It's clear that it's something that bothers folks enough to reply, even to an older post. Sure, it's not the 'end of the world' and there's plenty of other great features, but this remains one that a lot of users don't like.

marko · « **Reply #35 on:** December 29, 2006, 12:18:51 pm »

A while back, during early beta testing of v12, a bug caused the action window to go on vacation...

Sadly, I was never able to reproduce the effect, but it sure was a blast while it lasted

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Request: kill the action window (Read 8820 times)