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[zurn]

Hi,
I'm running out of space on my PC, and so planning an upgrade.  I just want to make sure i've got a process down by which i won't lose custom tags, play stats, smartlist definitions, etc. 

I gather that basically, if i do my moving within MC(10) and backup my library and restore it when i've got the new drive installed, that will do it.  However, the distribution of my media files makes it a little more complex, so i wanted to make sure my thinking is correct.

Here's how it's set up now.  I have two drives, and MC10 is installed on the master C drive, but the media is mostly in the following locations (but all in one MC library):
C:\music\
D:\mp3\
D:\music\
D:\vinyl\
D:\etc (there are a few more, but you get the idea)

After that everything is under Artist\Album subdirectories.

SO, my plan is: 
1. Move all the content of C:\music to D:\cmusic (or something) USING MC10 (Library Tools > Move/Copy Disk file).
2. Backup Library.
3. Physically remove the old 40GB master drive and replace it with the new master drive. 
4. Reinstall the OS and MC10 on the new drive.
5. Restore backed up Library to new MC10 install. 
6. Move D:\music, D:\mp3 etc, to NEW C:\music, C:\mp3, whatever USING MC10.
7. Physically remove slave drive.

I think that should work, no?   Will that preserve the Artist\Album subdirectories?  Or is there an additional step to take care of that?

Now here's a question:  i figure i'll keep the other two drives as a backup using a USB enclosure, but i will still need to explicitly use the MOVE rather than COPY option in all of the above examples, and then afterwards (--Step 8--), copy all the content back to the external drive, no?

Seems like a lot of copying back and forth, but if i use COPY in steps 1 and 6, it's not going to change the ultimate location of those files in the library, correct?

Thanks for any help!

steve

[Rob L]

I've just done pretty much exactly this.

However, I didn't bother getting MC to do the moving of the files - I moved them myself, and then used MC's search and replace functionality to change the drive letters (and in fact directories, since I decided to go for a slightly different way of organising it all)

But your approach sounds fine.

The only other difference is that I'm using MC11, but I don't think the functionality is much different in this respect.

[zurn]

Thanks for the response Rob, and for re-pointing out the find/replace, which i have not used very much--good to know of the other options.
steve

[jgreen]

Zurn--
I'd like to make a couple of suggestions, based on my own experiences.

1.  Do not replace your system drive (c:), unless you are forced to by a catastophic crash.  Instead, migrate your major data to a new drive, either a replacement for (d:), or an additional drive, (e:).  40gb is fine for a system disk, once the data is on a dedicated drive.  Performance will NEVER be enhanced by a fast system drive.  If you are upgrading to a new OS, think twice, 3X, 4X, etc.  Disruptions are (almost) inevitable.

2.  As far as data migration goes, your instincts are correct.  Use MC and go in stages.  I did mine using "Rename from properties", although "move disk file" will work fine.  The key is to go in steps and verify.  Be carefule of long filenames, which will bug out in either method. 

[zurn]

1.  Do not replace your system drive (c:), unless you are forced to by a catastophic crash.  Instead, migrate your major data to a new drive, either a replacement for (d:), or an additional drive, (e:).  40gb is fine for a system disk, once the data is on a dedicated drive.  Performance will NEVER be enhanced by a fast system drive.  If you are upgrading to a new OS, think twice, 3X, 4X, etc.  Disruptions are (almost) inevitable.

Thanks for this advice: it is always worth thinking through twice    Actually, though, my goal isn't necessarily performance, and i don't plan on upgrading the OS at this time.  My goals are generally to increase space (that's the given), but also eliminate the need for two drives--though i'd be interested in hearing opinions on this.  Let me explain:

My PC is not a dedicated media player, but almost.  It is located inside a the cabinet space in a very nice wooden desk that i have.  This stashes it out of the way, but makes heat somewhat of a problem--i SAY "problem," but i really haven't had any per se (hardware stoppage due to overheating)...it's just one of those things that obsesses me: i hate to leave it in there all cooped up and generating heat, esp if i'm just using it to play tunes (which is most of the time, but not all).  Anyway, every year when the weather starts heating up i start thinking about that old dillemma: how to keep it cool with a minimum of noise and a minimum of funds. 

SO: my thinking this year is that, since i'm running out of space, why not reduce my two drives to one, and that's one less thing generating heat.

I do like the idea of having a clean system drive and keeping all media data on an external drive, as it would make backups easier, but i already have an extensive (ridiculous, but cheap ) system for backing up my media, so that's not really an issue.

Though i would guess i could hear an argument that would say that having the media and system on the same drive might inevitably affect performance, but i'm not one to notice such differences, really.

2.  As far as data migration goes, your instincts are correct.  Use MC and go in stages.  I did mine using "Rename from properties", although "move disk file" will work fine.  The key is to go in steps and verify.  Be carefule of long filenames, which will bug out in either method. 

Could you elaborate on that a little?  Most of my filnames are 'Track#-Title.format'.  Surely moving within MC doesn't truncate filenames...?

[jgreen]

MC doesn't truncate filenames unless you tell it to, either through confusion or a sudden overwhelming self-destructive urge (these things happen).  This is why it pays to try out slowly a tool as powerful as "Rename files from properties".  As for illegally long filenames, I believe it is possible to get this when creating additional folders above the existing file.  Pile on enough names and the absolute path will exeed the limit, even though the individual file will still play, based on its relative location.  Only when it comes time to move it, windows objects.  MC doesn't truncate it, it will just leave it where it is, and give you an error dialogue box at the end of the transfer.  Therefore it pays to verify each group as you go.

I've moved my library around several times, as I consolidated existing data on to fewer, larger drives, or as I grew my collection.  Each time I used "rename", thanks to the advise of Alex and Marko, as I remember it.  My experience with "Move disk file" and "Copy disk file" is limited, but I believe neither option allows you to recreate your existing directory structure on your destination drive, at least not without additional steps that had my eyes glazing over. 

As for your cabinet-embedded hardware, a couple of thoughts from someone who's dreamed of doing the same thing.  If the computer is still in a case, but the case is hidden, crack the case open.  That will increase airflow.  I was even thinking of installing a bare board in a drawer, and hanging the power supply (the greatest source of heat) off the back end of the drawer, away from the components.  Also if you can put a small, slow fan to draw hot air out the back from the top, you will be fine.  A 2.5" drive (notebook size) can withstand an amazing amount of heat.  No law against you using that as your sys drive (many server farms do), but only a 3.5" drive has the speed and cache you want for your data.  You can bolt the hard drive to the back of the cabinet--they're fairly quiet without the fans.

[zurn]

MC doesn't truncate filenames unless you tell it to, either through confusion or a sudden overwhelming self-destructive urge (these things happen).  This is why it pays to try out slowly a tool as powerful as "Rename files from properties".  As for illegally long filenames, I believe it is possible to get this when creating additional folders above the existing file.  Pile on enough names and the absolute path will exeed the limit, even though the individual file will still play, based on its relative location.  Only when it comes time to move it, windows objects.  MC doesn't truncate it, it will just leave it where it is, and give you an error dialogue box at the end of the transfer.  Therefore it pays to verify each group as you go.

I've moved my library around several times, as I consolidated existing data on to fewer, larger drives, or as I grew my collection.  Each time I used "rename", thanks to the advise of Alex and Marko, as I remember it.  My experience with "Move disk file" and "Copy disk file" is limited, but I believe neither option allows you to recreate your existing directory structure on your destination drive, at least not without additional steps that had my eyes glazing over. 

I see, thanks.  And actually--i'd forgotten about that part of my question about the directory structure.  I actually use "Rename from properites" more often anyway, so it sounds like i should stick with that as the moving mechanism.

As for your cabinet-embedded hardware, a couple of thoughts from someone who's dreamed of doing the same thing.  If the computer is still in a case, but the case is hidden, crack the case open.  That will increase airflow.  I was even thinking of installing a bare board in a drawer, and hanging the power supply (the greatest source of heat) off the back end of the drawer, away from the components.  Also if you can put a small, slow fan to draw hot air out the back from the top, you will be fine.  A 2.5" drive (notebook size) can withstand an amazing amount of heat.  No law against you using that as your sys drive (many server farms do), but only a 3.5" drive has the speed and cache you want for your data.  You can bolt the hard drive to the back of the cabinet--they're fairly quiet without the fans.

That's a great suggestion, and yes, it's in a case, but will all available panels taken off/out.  I've always begun to think about going the next step and have it totally case-less.  Since mine is not a drawer but a big empty space, i'd have to install something somewhat removable to be able to work on the thing.  I think about it, but just haven't ever taken the next steps....like see how far i can dismantle the case, or see if there are other separate "case parts" that i could use as fixtures or something.  But yeah, that's where i'm headed, i think...

[hit_ny]

I separate OS from data from media, C: is OS only +apps, D: is data only, E:, F: etc are media only.

When i moved from 120GB HDs to 250GB HDs, i kept the partition letters for media the same, even tho partition sizes doubled as a result. I use partition magic 8.05 now for some yrs and it's worked great. Same approach will apply when i move to 500GB HDs in the distant future.

No need for any renaming from properties etc, everything worked since no paths had in reality changed.

[Alex B]

I separate OS from data from media, C: is OS only +apps, D: is data only, E:, F: etc are media only.

When i moved from 120GB HDs to 250GB HDs, i kept the partition letters for media the same, even tho partition sizes doubled as a result. I use partition magic 8.05 now for some yrs and it's worked great. Same approach will apply when i move to 500GB HDs in the distant future.

No need for any renaming from properties etc, everything worked since no paths had in reality changed.

Just like this. You can use separate HDs or partition a single HD. Just keep the OS and programs separate. It will make the system much more flexible in the future.

I have a media PC that has a 50 GB C: partition for the OS and all programs. The other partitions (D: and E:) contain 550 GB of storage space for media files. The C: and D: partitions are on one 300 GB drive and the E: partition occupies another 300 GB drive completely. I have to make the next upgrade soon. Probably I add a third 300 GB drive and move the media files from the current D: partition to it. I assign the new drive with the letter D: and give the current D: partition a new drive letter. I am going to use this new 250 GB partition for TV time shifting, video editing etc. (Currently I am constantly running out of temp space.)

I also have all HDs twice in my backup archive. I connect the other HDs externally when I make backups. So this configuration needs 1.8 TB of HD space at the moment. (...soon 2.7 TB and when I add a 300 GB drive I actually have to buy three 300 GB drives. )

[hit_ny]

I connect the other HDs externally when I make backups.

Could you expand a little on this external backup solution. Do you use an USB2 enclosure ?

[Alex B]

Could you expand a little on this external backup solution. Do you use an USB2 enclosure ?

Earlier I used rack mounted HDs, but the rack system I had was a bit unreliable. I have a couple of external Firewire/USB2 drives for mobile use and quick daily backups, but i have not used them anymore for my main backup archives. My MB has several free HD connecters. I simply thread the SATA data & power cables through a back panel opening and connect a bulk HD when needed. Naturally I must do that when the PC is unpowered. I use a separate small table fan for cooling the external bulk drive if it is going to be used longer than a few minutes.

[hit_ny]

Sounds similar to my setup..

I toyed with the removable drawer method but that requires a drawer/HD since no vendor  makes a reliable drawer that can load/eject HDs smoothly. I don't have a spare bay for it atm anyway.

My approach is bit clunky but cheap, involving hooking up IDE drives one by one to a PCI controller card and then running syncback, pull IDE cable from bulk HD and replace with next etc. You get quite adept at this after a few tries The older 120GBs used for backup of the new 250GB HDs. Swapping drives requires power cycling.

All works at UDMA 4 or 66MB/s. Only got USB1.1 so USB drives are out.

[jgreen]

When WD first crossed the 120 GB barrier, their 160 GB retail drives included a Promise IDE add-on card. I stream the two ribbons out the back of my workstation and let the destination backup drives lay on the floor.  You can buy the Promise cards for $30-$40 bucks, or you can spend two grand on a hot-swappable rack box.