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[gpvillamil]

A lot of the issues I see people have with the MC11 (and MC12) UI have to do with usage scenarios. Perhaps by acknowledging these scenarios the UI can be much better tuned.

The scenarios I've come up with are the following:

1. Leaning forward - the user is at the computer, sitting close to the screen, focused on computing tasks with a capable keyboard and mouse available. Sub scenarios:
a. MC11 as a background task - ie the user is working, surfing, etc and MC11 is playing music in the background
b. MC11 as a foreground task - ie the user is actively tagging music, organizing, making CDs, playlists etc.

2. Sitting back - the user is not at the computer, or not focused on computing tasks. This is the real "media center" scenario, where you are using the computer as a replacement for stereo or DVD player. [Edit] The input devices available may be limited in capability, eg. remote control, simplified wireless keyboard, trackball.

3. Mixed (the DJ scenario) - one user is "leaning forward" mode, queuing up music, images and video, other users are "sitting back", watching the output on another screen.

I get the sense that a lot of MC development is focused on scenario 1.b. - lots of information, small fonts, the need for precise mouse movements and typing.

The Theater View was supposed to address scenario 2 but it is missing too many capabilities (eg. search). Scenario 2 needs larger fonts, less info on screen (but not necessarily a reduction of capabilities). Ideally I would like a simplified version of the main interface, not an entirely different interface. I end up trying to use an interface designed for 1.b.  in scenario 2, which is why I keep complaining about the need for fiddly drag & drop, deeply nested menus and small fonts. Consider what it means to be using MC on a large screen TV 15 feet away, using a wireless keyboard with a trackball - and this is also the system where most music organization and playlist creation is done. For me, scenarios 1.b and 2 almost always take place on a dedicated media center PC.

Scenario 3 seems to have emerged by accident, but quite a few users like it. In fact, it is a unique capability of MC - no other media player seems to do this as well as MC11. It is a real differentiator, don't make it go away. In fact, since my system is rather drastically multi-monitor, for me the scenario 3 case is identical to scenario 1.a. For me, scenario 1.a and scenario 3 are almost always on a laptop with a large screen, and 1 or more additional external monitors.

So my suggestion would be to see how you can optimize the MC12 UI for each of the above scenarios, without compromising each too much. I strongly believe these can all be addressed within the same basic framework, with just a few changeable parameters.

[datdude]

Bingo!

I am in scanario 2 most of the time now.

[Doof]

The Theater View was supposed to address scenario 2 but it is missing too many capabilities (eg. search). Scenario 2 needs larger fonts, less info on screen (but not necessarily a reduction of capabilities). Ideally I would like a simplified version of the main interface, not an entirely different interface. I end up trying to use an interface designed for 1.b.  in scenario 2, which is why I keep complaining about the need for fiddly drag & drop, deeply nested menus and small fonts. Consider what it means to be using MC on a large screen TV 15 feet away, using a wireless keyboard with a trackball - and this is also the system where most music organization and playlist creation is done. For me, scenarios 1.b and 2 almost always take place on a dedicated media center PC.

See, I kind of disagree with this. I really don't see how or why anybody would want to be doing all of their media management with a remote. It's just not going to be as good an interface for that kind of work as the main interface is. The remote-based interface needs to be simple to navigate and easy to play the media I want. I'm not going to spend any time at all tagging media with the remote, or trying to rip or burn CDs.  The main interface is great for the various jobs I need to do. Theater View is great (could be better) for letting me access and play my media on the TV using a remote. I'd hate it if I suddenly had to start navigating the main interface with a remote, and so would anybody who was at my house trying to figure out how to play some music.

[gpvillamil]

See, I kind of disagree with this. I really don't see how or why anybody would want to be doing all of their media management with a remote. It's just not going to be as good an interface for that kind of work as the main interface is. The remote-based interface needs to be simple to navigate and easy to play the media I want. I'm not going to spend any time at all tagging media with the remote, or trying to rip or burn CDs.  The main interface is great for the various jobs I need to do. Theater View is great (could be better) for letting me access and play my media on the TV using a remote. I'd hate it if I suddenly had to start navigating the main interface with a remote, and so would anybody who was at my house trying to figure out how to play some music.

I can see what you are saying - basically when you are in scenario 2, you never do anything in scenario 1.b.

The problem I have is that the computer I use for media playback ONLY has the big plasma screen, and the wireless keyboard. The current main interface is very hard to use for me, and I can't get what I need done in Theater view. I think the simplifications I propose for the main view will probably make it easier to use in any scenario, so nothing is lost.

I can understand how Theater view is useful as a remote-based playback view.

[Doof]

Exactly.

See, in my situation, I do all of my 1.b stuff on my main PC. Then for the Theater View PC, I just do a Library Update, and all of the tag changes I made carry through. Originally I tried using Library Server, but it's performance wasn't up to snuff (no APE playback was the biggest thing - I didn't rip all of my CDs to APE just to listen to MP3s on my surround sound). I don't actually create playlists on the Theater View PC. Now that I think about it, that's probably just because it's not really possible. But I don't miss it. I mostly just play individual albums on the Theater View PC. Come to think of it... I never really build playlists on my main PC either.

[gpvillamil]

This brings up an interesting point - we all have our own ways of doing things that influence our feedback.

For example, some people do music management on one PC and playback on another. Share libraries, multiple libraries. Access via media server or a via a shared drive. Others use the same PC. Some have multi-monitor setups, some a single monitor.

Perhaps it would make sense to build a poll around the usage scenarios?

[jgreen]

GP--
Another great thread!  I'm definitely a 1b/1a user.  I started out with Audio only at my desk, mostly as a 1a, and then found I loved the program's precision so much I made more 1b time and added in additional media types.

Up until a few weeks ago I only brought MC into the livingroom by extension, and then only audio.  I would configure the playlist in my office and then send the analogue tap out to my preamp. 

I definitely believe in multi-monitor support/configurations.  While 1a works well with a single monitor, 1b is greatly enhanced by twin monitors, IMO, and I think theater view needs a mode that would be a regular view (say, on a laptop) with a theater view video tap out.

All the same, I think jriver's got a great UI for MC12 and I doubt it will be changing in this verson.  I think it's more important for us to understand our own usage scenarios and how that colors our impressions of the GUI's usability.

[glynor]

Exactly.

See, in my situation, I do all of my 1.b stuff on my main PC. Then for the Theater View PC, I just do a Library Update, and all of the tag changes I made carry through. Originally I tried using Library Server, but it's performance wasn't up to snuff (no APE playback was the biggest thing - I didn't rip all of my CDs to APE just to listen to MP3s on my surround sound). I don't actually create playlists on the Theater View PC. Now that I think about it, that's probably just because it's not really possible. But I don't miss it. I mostly just play individual albums on the Theater View PC. Come to think of it... I never really build playlists on my main PC either.

I generally do a hybrid of the two points-of-view.  Most of my "hard core" tagging (1b) gets done in my "computer room" on what most people would think of as a computer (though I do have 3 monitors, 2 mice, and a baby grand piano in there all connected to the machine).  While I do sometimes play music in there (and occasionally a video or two - when the wife is using the HTPC), it's usually a 1a type scenario (while working on something else).

Then I have my HTPC.  I use this system for the vast majority of my "home" media playback.  Generally I find that I don't end up using Theater View.  It's just too slow.  Yes, in Standard View the fonts are very small and navigation is more difficult using my remote.... But, I just suffer through usually.  Installing Window's large fonts helps (and increasing MC's font size a smidge), but basically I'm just lucky that I have good vision.  I too, like gpvillamil, find that I often do some tagging and organization work in front of the HTPC.  Now, it is eased by the fact that I have a full wireless keyboard and mouse out there (though the keyboard is usually put away in a drawer).  But, quite often you think about it when you're using it and that's where I use it the most.  If it annoys me that something is in the wrong Genre, I often "need" to fix it right then.  I also build a lot of playlists in front of the TV, usually a little at a time (just in Playing Now) while people are over for an informal "party" -- kind of DJ-ing.

I find that I just don't end up using Theater View for a couple of reasons:

1) It's often much too slow to get to what I want.  To many "clicks" are needed to drill down to what I want, and there's not a very easy way to visually ID where I am in any particular View Scheme heirarchy.  I think unifying Theater View with the new "Tiles" system could GREATLY improve it's usability here (along with using a system similar to OSX's Finder's "Column View").

2) Some of simple the features I often want are either not available, hidden, or too hard to use.  For example, there's no way to tell if Shuffle is on or off in Theater View.  There's no way to easily "Add as Next To Play" from Theater View.

Mostly, I use Theater View so that others can see easily what is going on.  For example, if I have a large group of friends over and we are trying to pick what movie to watch... I'll go through my "New and Unwatched" View Scheme in Theater View a page at a time.  Also, my wife uses Theater View quite a bit (her eyes aren't as good as mine and we don't have a nice high-def TV... yet).  But, she almost always just navigates to one of my "Smartlist" View Schemes and clicks play (with Shuffle turned on).  She never uses it to drill down to find specific media files... For that she'll switch to Standard View.

One of the biggest problems that I find with my method is that it isn't very "drunk friendly".  When I'm building a playlist with friends over in Standard View, it's far too easy to mess something up if you are less-than-sober.  If Theater View was playback only (no tagging at all -- as it is now), but was a LOT more functional for regular use, I would be a very happy camper!

Lastly, I use MC heavily as a DJ (3).  For that, there's little I've found that's better.  Multi-zone playback, and the multi-monitor support (with G-Force thanks to Andy), crossfade, and a big external hard drive are my friends!  I don't do any real "mixing" as a DJ so I have no need for any of the fancier DJ software applications (with looping and whatnot).  I mostly do weddings and corporate events (and parties for friends), so that stuff isn't needed.