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[gpvillamil]

A friend of mine stayed in my apartment for 3 weeks while I was away, had access to my media computer.

This is a smart guy, years of Java programming experience, admins his own webserver, builds his own computer, compiles Linux, etc. So not a computer newbie by any means.

He gave up on MC11 after 2 days, and downloaded another program instead to listen to music.

His specific gripes (which will not be news to anyone who's read my posts):

1) Naming of stuff - use of nouns and verbs is inconsistent - most actions are treated as verbs, but editing tags, a very common action, is called "Tag Info" - should be "Edit Tags" or better "Edit Info about Song|Image|Video" or "Open Tag Editing Window". Also a lot of stuff is very inaccurately or abstrusely named eg. DSP Studio, or "Acquire Images" which seems to suggest buying stock photos.  Pressing F2 is an action called "Rename" but most users would say that it is really "Edit field" or "Edit info about selected item" - the immediate assumption from the menu is that it renames a song (only the name).

Now - some of this might appear to be nitpicking - but my friend comes from an environment where precision is important. So if you have a menu item called Rename, with shortcut F2, the assumption is that it will do exactly what Rename (F2) does in Windows Explorer - rename the file. Since there is another item about editing tags, it seems reasonable to assume that F2 is in fact a rename option.

In the same way, he figured that the DSP studio must be some way of directly controlling the DSP in my (rather advanced) soundcard.

2) Redundant submenus - eg. Action Window/Build Playlist -> Build Playlist, Player/Playback Options -> Playback Options...

3) Can't find obvious functions - eg. turn crossfade on and off

4) Hard to establish what the various views do, and when they are applicable - specific complaint, why can't you apply a view to a playlist. I explained using Playlist as a filter in the search box, which allows this, but he pointed out that most users would not consider this a "search" function.

5) Role of Playing Now vs library views - here an easy solution is proposed, the little yellow triangle icon in front of Playing Now should reflect playing state (ie change to square when stopped, two lines when paused), and maybe pulse when active.

6) Start page considered completely useless, the functions present there should be moved to the Action Window or the About box. (The Start Page has not changed materially in a year, and doesn't do anything useful.)

7) Confusion about playing images and audio at the same time - no obvious way of seeing what images are cued.

[GHammer]

Hmmm.

I have no problem with DSP Studio. I wouldn't expect a player to configure chipsets.

I'd like to see the menus consolidated/updated. Like items should be grouped together.
You know, like the DSP functions, gapless, crossfade, etc all in one spot.
Library functions should be in one spot. Library tools doesn't have backup/restore/etc.

Views are something I haven't used much, I'm a simple guy.

I'd like to see it be easier to just have a random slideshow play along with audio.
Having the option to setup a particular slideshow is nice, but so is just having your photos slide by while you are listening to tunes.

Start page? What's that? Seriously, I have accidently opened it once or twice.
Make a seperate "Welcome" file that opens to give tips, point to the website, link to help.

[Marty3d]

About the start page... I agree. For me, it's totally useless (and time consuming since it takes 1-2 seconds to update).
And when we are in this topic: I'm not keen at all that Playing now expands when clicked upon. I have unchecked auto collapse and Auto Expand in Options, but to no avail.

[glynor]

3) Can't find obvious functions - eg. turn crossfade on and off

5) Role of Playing Now vs library views - here an easy solution is proposed, the little yellow triangle icon in front of Playing Now should reflect playing state (ie change to square when stopped, two lines when paused), and maybe pulse when active.

6) Start page considered completely useless, the functions present there should be moved to the Action Window or the About box. (The Start Page has not changed materially in a year, and doesn't do anything useful.)

I strongly agree with these few items.  The crossfade selections should really be under the DSP (and I've already said that should be renamed).  I think the Playing Display will help a bit with the Playing Now problem, but the suggestion of the icon reflecting play state (and moving the weird sub items under it that don't really seem to belong there) are very good ones.

I know Jim & Co. are pretty attached to the start page.  WiMP has one too, which is equally useless and slow (though quite a bit "flashier" at least).  I never open it.

[Doof]

1) Naming of stuff - use of nouns and verbs is inconsistent - most actions are treated as verbs, but editing tags, a very common action, is called "Tag Info" - should be "Edit Tags" or better "Edit Info about Song|Image|Video" or "Open Tag Editing Window". Also a lot of stuff is very inaccurately or abstrusely named eg. DSP Studio, or "Acquire Images" which seems to suggest buying stock photos.  Pressing F2 is an action called "Rename" but most users would say that it is really "Edit field" or "Edit info about selected item" - the immediate assumption from the menu is that it renames a song (only the name).

I really only kind of agree with this. The use of the word "Action" in the Action Window does kind of require you to then label everything as an action. So I can agree with that. However, griping about the term "Aquire Images" kind of draws your friend's experience into question. That's the phrasing EVERY image editing program I've ever seen uses for aquiring images from an imagind device. To say that he thought it meant he was going to be purchasing images shows his lack of experience in that area, IMO. The question is, should MC go against the standard in this? Maybe they should (personally I don't think that "Aquire Images" is all that descriptive for computer newbies - but anybody who has even a little experience with scanning should recognize the term). I'm not trying to insult your friend or anything. Just hearing that kind of makes me put him into more of the computer newbie group, which for this discussion is great because people who don't have vast amounts of experience are the ones who are going to get completely lost using this app.

Now - some of this might appear to be nitpicking - but my friend comes from an environment where precision is important. So if you have a menu item called Rename, with shortcut F2, the assumption is that it will do exactly what Rename (F2) does in Windows Explorer - rename the file. Since there is another item about editing tags, it seems reasonable to assume that F2 is in fact a rename option.

I completely agree.

In the same way, he figured that the DSP studio must be some way of directly controlling the DSP in my (rather advanced) soundcard.

Like GHammer said, I would never expect a media player to be messing around with the chipset on my soundcard. I don't see an issue with "DSP Studio". That's pretty much what it is. I think somebody mentioned stripping the "Studio" part out of the name, and that would be fine by me.

2) Redundant submenus - eg. Action Window/Build Playlist -> Build Playlist, Player/Playback Options -> Playback Options...

3) Can't find obvious functions - eg. turn crossfade on and off

4) Hard to establish what the various views do, and when they are applicable - specific complaint, why can't you apply a view to a playlist. I explained using Playlist as a filter in the search box, which allows this, but he pointed out that most users would not consider this a "search" function.

5) Role of Playing Now vs library views - here an easy solution is proposed, the little yellow triangle icon in front of Playing Now should reflect playing state (ie change to square when stopped, two lines when paused), and maybe pulse when active.

6) Start page considered completely useless, the functions present there should be moved to the Action Window or the About box. (The Start Page has not changed materially in a year, and doesn't do anything useful.)

7) Confusion about playing images and audio at the same time - no obvious way of seeing what images are cued.

Complete agreement here.

[jgreen]

GP--

I've always been flumoxed as to why a playlist can't conform to a view scheme.  Could you 'splain again about using playlist as a filter to arrive at this?  Is this a two-step workaround, or a twelve-step workaround?

Glynor--

Regarding the Start Page, we all know why it's there and we all know how to make it less annoying.  I don't think jriver's currently working on their start page, but if they are, I think the page ought to go straight to Performer Digital, where free tracks can occassionally be had as a loyalty reward, etc.  That would make jriver the first company in the post-singularity universe to make their start page something users look forward to.

[gpvillamil]

I've always been flumoxed as to why a playlist can't conform to a view scheme.  Could you 'splain again about using playlist as a filter to arrive at this?  Is this a two-step workaround, or a twelve-step workaround?

...

Choose your view scheme, then click the little triangle in the Search box, choose Playlist, choose a Playlist from the list. Your Playlist is displayed according to the view scheme.

[gpvillamil]

...However, griping about the term "Aquire Images" kind of draws your friend's experience into question. That's the phrasing EVERY image editing program I've ever seen uses for aquiring images from an imagind device. To say that he thought it meant he was going to be purchasing images shows his lack of experience in that area, IMO. The question is, should MC go against the standard in this? ...

Actually this was someone else. The Java programmer understood "Acquire Images" fine.

Re DSP, the context is important. He knows I have a decent programmable DSP in my system. So first guess is that the DSP studio was some kind of plugin related to that (and not the place where sounds are adjusted.) Note that this means that this function was misinterpreted (reasonably) by a knowledgeable user. A newbie would be even less likely to guess that the DSP Studio conceals the equalizer!

I think "DSP Studio" should be changed to "Sound Adjustment" or "Audio Tuning" or "Adjust how things sound". Neither "DSP" or "Studio" convey any kind of useful information in this context. Expanding "DSP" to "Digital Signal Processor" makes it even less useful.

[JimH]

The language.txt file might allow you to name things the way you want to.

It's pretty hard to find universally acceptable terms.

[glynor]

It's pretty hard to find universally acceptable terms.

He speaketh the truth.

[glynor]

Choose your view scheme, then click the little triangle in the Search box, choose Playlist, choose a Playlist from the list. Your Playlist is displayed according to the view scheme.

While I never knew you could do this, I really don't fully understand why you'd want to.  I really never use regular playlists unless I need the files to play in a specific order (such as if I'm scripting out music for an event).  In that case,   Otherwise, I just create view schemes and add a Search to Step 4.  Just like a Smart Playlist but better (because you can use the Tree/Panes filtering on them).

My point is that it's cool you can do it, but I really don't think it's important that it be super intuitive.  It's not something I think grandma would use.

[Doof]

Actually this was someone else. The Java programmer understood "Acquire Images" fine.

Ah, ok. Your post wasn't very clear about that.

Re DSP, the context is important. He knows I have a decent programmable DSP in my system. So first guess is that the DSP studio was some kind of plugin related to that (and not the place where sounds are adjusted.) Note that this means that this function was misinterpreted (reasonably) by a knowledgeable user. A newbie would be even less likely to guess that the DSP Studio conceals the equalizer!

I think "DSP Studio" should be changed to "Sound Adjustment" or "Audio Tuning" or "Adjust how things sound". Neither "DSP" or "Studio" convey any kind of useful information in this context. Expanding "DSP" to "Digital Signal Processor" makes it even less useful.

I think in any kind of "industry" there's a certain learning curve, and part of that learning curve is learning some of the terms that are used. DSP is a very common term in the digital audio world, and I'm not sure that shielding new users from that is really the answer. Maybe changing the tooltip to read "DSP Settings : Changes the way your audio sounds" or "DSP and Equalizer Settings" or something would be helpful.

[GHammer]

I recall no problem in finding the functions of the DSP Studio when I first loaded MC.
I'm kinda backward. I don't read names of stuff and try to guess its function. I usually click on this or that and see what it offers. Ok, I sometimes (not often) make an educated guess.

Then handicapped by my limited knowledge, I assume that 'Equalizer' in this DSP Studio just might do what the equalizer in my car or in WinAmp does. Clicking on that sure enough shows me a familar group of sliders marked by frequencies. It really doesn't make the sound equal at all though. To do that I'd have to choose Replay Gain. But I don't want to replay anything I just want them all to be the same volume. That could certainly be confusing to someone with no knowledge of any audio terms.

Of course I'm much more adventurous than some. For the I want to know what this is but don't wish to look at it" types, there's always Help, which even in MC follows the F1 protocol.

[gpvillamil]

Ah, ok. Your post wasn't very clear about that.

I think in any kind of "industry" there's a certain learning curve, and part of that learning curve is learning some of the terms that are used. DSP is a very common term in the digital audio world, and I'm not sure that shielding new users from that is really the answer. Maybe changing the tooltip to read "DSP Settings : Changes the way your audio sounds" or "DSP and Equalizer Settings" or something would be helpful.

Sure, except that in this case "DSP Studio" does not actually refer to a DSP, or to DSP in anything except the most general way (decoding a JPEG and applying gamma adjustment is also "digital signal processing"), and it is definitely not a "Studio". It leads to a dialog that in most other programs would be called "Playback Settings".

[gpvillamil]

I recall no problem in finding the functions of the DSP Studio when I first loaded MC.
I'm kinda backward. I don't read names of stuff and try to guess its function...

This might be fine for you, but a lot of people whose primary interest is *not* computing do read the names of stuff, and assume they describe its function.

The reason I bring this up is because I've struggled to explain MC11 to people with all levels of skill, and there's never a clear "aha - I get it" - it's always a process to adapt to the peculiar internal terminology of the program. Often, when Windows standard terms or controls are used (eg. Rename - F2, or the window control widgets) they do something non-standard. (At least the catastrophic "Mega-Me" is gone - that was 2 steps removed from the original joke in an "Austin Powers" movie.)

For new users, there is a first layer of learning about trying to figure out what MC11 is *saying*, and once that is done, then they can try to figure out what it is *doing*. What MC *does* is complex enough - there shouldn't be an extra overlay of complexity around what it *says*. Notice the number of posts on Interact along the lines of "THAT's what that does".