Topic: Tree View Oddities (Read 4122 times)

datdude · « **on:** June 29, 2006, 11:08:12 pm »

I see two playing now references, yet neither in this picture show the tracks playing.

The first playing now node is in between the audio tree and playlists tree. Does this not look obviously out of place?

Something needs to be done to make this view more consistent and usefull.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2006, 11:56:46 pm »

I don't get it. Click "Playing Now" and you'll see what's playing.

datdude · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2006, 12:34:19 am »

It is usable, I wil give you that.

A new song plays. and the display view 'takes over'. This creates extra clicks to get back to the other action items, and you can't view the library, display, and playing now tracks at the same time. To me this seems like a great thing to have, but maybe not a lot of other users agree, and it simply is not worth changing?

My comment also, was that overall it simply looks confusing, especially if I was a new user, and if I remember correctly, it took me a while to understand what referenced what in the tree/action view.

You can close this if it deffinetly is not changing. I can live with it obviously, it is not unusable, just thought it could be better.

GHammer · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2006, 03:32:13 am »

I think I'd like Now Playing to be the top of the tree too.
It certainly gets pushed WAY down when I open the Audio section.

marko · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2006, 04:19:50 am »

The more I use it, the more I dislike these expansion arrows on the right.

Pull the tree out, and the arrows move out too, and after expansion, all 'child expanders' are to the left.

I also do not like the way playing now gets moved down the window. It should always be in the same place. Where? I'm not sure...
Won't it fit on the top line to the left of Audio?

Then lock that top line right up there so that nothing else can replace it.

I really don't like the bolded text either...
compare mc11.1's tree...

with 12-29's...

Initially, I thought the new tabs were a neat trick, but now I see that the playing now node is plagued with the same problem that v11's 'library browser' node had. ie., it keeps jumping around in the tree window while we dig around in various locations.
New additions to the tree root are able to displace audio|image|video from the top row too which just makes it look unbalanced and silly. (please don't solve this by removing the option of adding root viewschemes

)

I'll persevere with it. But having just spent a fair bit of time with it, I came to vent my frustrations and found that datdude beat me to it

-marko.

Alex B · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2006, 08:05:54 am »

This is how I see the difference:

I prefer the old style.

I say "style" because the functionality has not changed much. The only difference seems to be that you cannot expand the default media type categories simultaneously anymore.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2006, 08:10:22 am »

Quote from: datdude on June 29, 2006, 11:08:12 pm

How do you get the lower playing now? I can't find it

Alex B · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2006, 08:18:29 am »

Quote from: Mr ChriZ on July 01, 2006, 08:10:22 am

How do you get the lower playing now? I can't find it

Action Window > Build Playlist > Edit Playing Now

Edit

I cannot see a problem with this. It has not changed from MC 11.1.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2006, 08:19:56 am »

Thats fantastic.... should be on the front of the action window
not piled deep to the back of it!

datdude · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2006, 04:46:31 pm »

On thing I do like about the new 'display' is that if you switch from the 'real' playing now back to a different view, the display pops up.

The problem is where is the rest of the playing now on the left hand side, i.e. the TRACKS?

datdude · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2006, 01:00:01 am »

I have always liked how MC's library view view scheme's menu switches when the left hand tree view is opened and closed. When its open, the view scheme menu is accessible through the library view header.

I propose that the playing now node in the tree view be placed along side the other 3 media's up top and when it is clicked the display and tracks are expanded below on the left hand side, thus closing the media trees, but at the same time allowing for control of the media by the library menu.

This would allow for users who prefer the tree to get what they want, and users who dont like it, a place to see the full display and playing now screen on, along with the standard library view all at the same time.

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2006, 01:53:07 am »

Quote from: Alex B on July 01, 2006, 08:05:54 am

I prefer the old style.

I say "style" because the functionality has not changed much. The only difference seems to be that you cannot expand the default media type categories simultaneously anymore.

What he said.

I still think this could be a workable solution that would please both the "pro" and "anti" tree camps, and help the noobs understand how to find what they want more easily.

datdude · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2006, 02:25:49 am »

Quote from: glynor on July 02, 2006, 01:53:07 am

What he said.

I still think this could be a workable solution that would please both the "pro" and "anti" tree camps, and help the noobs understand how to find what they want more easily.

That would be sweet.

I think MC as I have said in the previous posts, is smart enough to dynamically add or subtract functionality based on what is howing in the tree so you wooun't lose anything by going to glynor's sugggestion yet add the power of stickyness to important things that users want.

The key would be to customize what any possible tab could be by the users( i.e playing now, tag info, etc.... If JRiver doesn't add this customizablibty feature, then tabs would be useless.

marko · « **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2006, 02:16:14 am »

v12's tree is really beginning to irritate. the more I use it, the more it irritates.

the state of it in some of Alex's recent screenies are painful.

Novelty factor is a wierd thing. When I first launched v12, I thought, OK, looks quite good, nice idea, etc. etc.
Sadly, it's become very old, very quickly for me

Edit:=============
That was a right rubbish post huh?

let's try and be a bit more constructive/positive shall we?

For starters, lose the bold text, and if the two are not related, reduce the spacing between tree nodes.
Put the expanders back on the left where they are supposed to be.
Lock the top three (four if you have Docs) nodes up the top and lock playing now right beneath those. The rest can be our playground.
If you don't want the media modes to auto expand, at least keep the expansion area in sync with the chosen mode when it is open (or close it when the selection changes)

All of that, when I think about it, brings practically full circle back to what we already had in v11.1, which is probably not what you had in mind..

This tree discussion has gotten a tad fragmented already, but somewhere around here there's some talk of using 'real' tabs as opposed to these kid-on things we currently have. Alex came up with some seriously interesting ideas as to how the tabs should be broken down.
the outlook style is an interesting one too, one that I'd take over what we have now, though I've never been a huge fan of "MS outlook style" shortcut bars.

Whatever, please do something with the tree, 'coz it's slaying me atm

-marko.

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2006, 08:41:21 am »

Quote from: marko on July 04, 2006, 02:16:14 am

though I've never been a huge fan of "MS outlook style" shortcut bars.

I'm generally not either, but I think this is one instance where it could work well. So long as we still have access to the full tree.

datdude · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2006, 01:02:50 am »

Two things that have always buged me about the tree/action window view:

1) Can't view items vertically full screen.

2) Can't save items such as playing now or tag info and sticky them permanently.

MC through its complicated system is trying to do too much, too perfectly, with too many user based assumptions, and instead should eliminate this mess and allow the users to do what they want through more customizations and less controlling based navigation. Just open things up a bit, just like you did with view schemes, thats what makes MC so great.

Doof · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2006, 07:46:08 am »

FWIW, I don't much care about the little triangle indicator things.

What I do care about is consistency. If you single click on anything other than Audio, Images, Video or Documents, it will automatically open up to show you all of the child nodes. But for the top four, a single click won't do that. For consistency's sake, they should all behave the same way (one way or the other). Once that's done, the little arrow things are nothing more than a visual indicator that the item can be collapsed or expanded.

And I also agree that Playing Now needs a much more prominent role in things. Personally, I'd rip it out of the tree and make it the topmost level item, always there and never moving. Then below that have Audio, Images, Videos, and Documents.

glynor · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2006, 09:02:43 am »

Quote from: Doof on July 06, 2006, 07:46:08 am

Once that's done, the little arrow things are nothing more than a visual indicator that the item can be collapsed or expanded.

That's not all they're good for. You can use the arrows to expand the items in the tree without changing the currently displayed view on the right-hand pane of the window. This is essential for using the tree for tagging, as I explained in this thread.

If you eliminate the arrows, and the only way to expand the tree items was to actually "open" each node of the tree, it would ruin the tree's very useful drag-n-drop functionality. Generally, when I'm "tree-tagging" I have one of my "Recently Imported" view schemes open in details view on the right hand pane, and then I expand items on the tree (without "opening" them) and drag-drop files from the right pane onto the tree. If the arrows were eliminated, I wouldn't be able to look at my Recently Imported view scheme on the right and explore the different nodes on the tree on the left.

Marty3d · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2006, 09:21:46 am »

Quote from: glynor on July 06, 2006, 09:02:43 am

That's not all they're good for. You can use the arrows to expand the items in the tree without changing the currently displayed view on the right-hand pane of the window. This is essential for using the tree for tagging, as I explained in this thread.

If you eliminate the arrows, and the only way to expand the tree items was to actually "open" each node of the tree, it would ruin the tree's very useful drag-n-drop functionality. Generally, when I'm "tree-tagging" I have one of my "Recently Imported" view schemes open in details view on the right hand pane, and then I expand items on the tree (without "opening" them) and drag-drop files from the right pane onto the tree. If the arrows were eliminated, I wouldn't be able to look at my Recently Imported view scheme on the right and explore the different nodes on the tree on the left.

I do this as well, so yes, the arrows mean alot...if they just were all left-aligned, I'd be a happy camper.

Doof · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2006, 09:43:50 am »

Ah, good point. I hadn't thought it that far through.

datdude · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2006, 09:02:10 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 06, 2006, 09:02:43 am

That's not all they're good for. You can use the arrows to expand the items in the tree without changing the currently displayed view on the right-hand pane of the window. This is essential for using the tree for tagging, as I explained in this thread.

If you eliminate the arrows, and the only way to expand the tree items was to actually "open" each node of the tree, it would ruin the tree's very useful drag-n-drop functionality. Generally, when I'm "tree-tagging" I have one of my "Recently Imported" view schemes open in details view on the right hand pane, and then I expand items on the tree (without "opening" them) and drag-drop files from the right pane onto the tree. If the arrows were eliminated, I wouldn't be able to look at my Recently Imported view scheme on the right and explore the different nodes on the tree on the left.

When I click on the arrows it simply switches the media view. How do you make it now switch view as yo udescribe?

This as it is, makes it confusing to know when media type opens or not. I am still guessing sometimes, very confusing.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Tree View Oddities (Read 4122 times)