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Author Topic: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?  (Read 8307 times)

john h

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Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« on: July 07, 2006, 02:03:52 pm »

This may seem like a dumb question, but I've read thru posts made as recently as several months ago that explain that MC will not work on macs unless you do some kind of virtual window or something.

Now that macs say they can run XP at the same time they run the Mac OS, can I buy a Macbook and install MC on it and run it through the XP window?

I'm buying a new laptop and was about to get the Toshiba, but have always been very curious to buy a mac.  Anyone have any thoughts???

Thanks,
John
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johnh

glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2006, 02:13:22 pm »

Yes.  I've run MC on our MacBook Pro through BootCamp.  In order for this to work, you need to actually install a full version of Windows XP on the Mac and boot into it (you won't be able to use the Mac software simultaneously -- as you have to actually reboot the computer to switch back and forth).  However, if you also buy MacDrive and install it on the Windows partition, you will be able to "see" the same media from both OSX and Windows (assuming it is on the OSX partition).

You can also use a "Virtual Machine" to run Windows XP inside a window on the Mac from within OSX (using Parallels Workstation for OSX).  I have not tried this, but it is very unlikely that it would work well because all video acceleration is disabled when running under the virtual machine.  This may improve in the future, but it also may not.

So, yes it is possible.  If you're hoping to run MC in a window on OSX as though it wasn't using Windows though, that's not going to work well.
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john h

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2006, 02:26:37 pm »

Thanks, Glynor.  I'm still a bit confused, though.  On the apple website, it describes a program called Parallels Desktop that allows you to run the Mac OS programs and the XP windows at the same time. 

Here's a quote: "That’s a prospect that has the Wall Street Journal’s Walt Mossberg very excited. “You can run any combination of Mac and Windows programs at the same time, on the same screen.” For example, you could “simultaneously download your corporate email in Outlook using Windows while editing a home video in iMovie using the Mac OS.” Or how about this multi-tasking example from Mossberg: “I was able to do email in Apple’s Mail program while simultaneously watching a baseball game in Internet Explorer.”"
http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

So, under this program, could I get the mac to run MC while also using the mac video editing software and switch back and forth, without having to reboot in between?




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johnh

glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2006, 03:35:25 pm »

On the apple website, it describes a program called Parallels Desktop that allows you to run the Mac OS programs and the XP windows at the same time. 

That's what I was referring to in my explanation of the Virtual Machine.  The Parallels Desktop software does allow you to do what you describe.  It works quite well, and the Windows applications run at "near native speeds" (meaning almost just as fast as they would if you rebooted to regular Windows XP.  This is due to the new built-in virtualization technology built into the Intel Core processors (called Vanderpool).

However, one major limitation currently is that it does not work with hardware graphics acceleration.  In other words, while the program will run at full speed, graphic effects (such as MC's video display) will mostly need to be drawn by the CPU rather than the video card.  I'm not 100% sure how this would affect use of MC, but I would guess that using it for video or high-end visualizations may not work as well as you would hope.

I could be wrong on this though.  People are very impressed with the performance of the system it may be okay.  I haven't tried it myself, so I can't say for sure.

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john h

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2006, 04:27:34 pm »

I see now what you're saying.  The rebooting was under the older software.  I looked at the link for parallels desktop and see now what you mean.  I very much appreciate your opinions, too, on the graphics acceleration.  I don't run movies off MC other than my grainy clips from my digital camera, so maybe it won't be much of a problem.  If it's just a matter of using MC to play my music using my playlists and smartlists, I may be in business.

Do you think that using this format would affect MC's ability communicate with uPnP devices, such as the Tivo, Roku, etc???

I also noticed that, if you buy the Mac, you also have to buy the Parallels Desktop software ($79) and then your own copy of XP, which begins to add up.  Maybe I should just go ahead and get the Toshiba.
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johnh

glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 07:32:09 pm »

BootCamp (which is free, Apple provided software) allows you to reboot the computer into a full-fledged Windows XP laptop, which really provides the best of both worlds.

You still get to use all your Windows software, but you can also "try out" OSX.  Plus, it's just me talking, but no one builds a laptop quite as well designed and engineered as Apple.  I'm really more of a desktop PC guy, but if I were to buy a laptop... It would definately be a MacBook Pro.

Most windows machines are just flimsy in comparison, and now that Apple uses a processor that doesn't stink, and that I can boot to full, native Windows XP...  Then, if you find you're switching back and forth a lot, you can always spring for Parallels Desktop later (and save up for it).  There certainly is a price premium (about 10% in most estimates), but IMHO it's worth it.
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2006, 12:48:20 am »

I thought you might be interested, ArsTechnica has a review up of the new final release of Parallels Desktop 1.0 here.  They usually do a good job with these, but I haven't checked it out yet.
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hit_ny

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2006, 04:09:24 am »

BootCamp (which is free, Apple provided software) allows you to reboot the computer into a full-fledged Windows XP laptop, which really provides the best of both worlds.

You still get to use all your Windows software, but you can also "try out" OSX.  Plus, it's just me talking, but no one builds a laptop quite as well designed and engineered as Apple.  I'm really more of a desktop PC guy, but if I were to buy a laptop... It would definately be a MacBook Pro.
I'm curious about the device driver situation here.

You plan to run XP on a Macbook Pro.

How will XP drivers be available for what is effectively only Mac hardware ?
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darichman

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2006, 08:21:40 am »

From the Bootcamp website:

Code: [Select]
Boot Camp will burn a CD of all the required drivers for Windows so you don't have to scrounge around the Internet looking for them.
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NickM

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2006, 07:27:02 am »

So, has anyone used BootCamp, runs WinXP and has installed and used MC without any issues???
[On a Mac Pro Duo Intel]
nick
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sapnho

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2006, 12:07:26 pm »

I run MC through Parallel on a Duo Core Mac Mini without any problems.

It would be nice to see a Mac version of MC though.
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2006, 10:47:22 pm »

So, has anyone used BootCamp, runs WinXP and has installed and used MC without any issues???
[On a Mac Pro Duo Intel]
nick

I have on a MacBook Pro (Yonah dual core).  The Mac Pros, workstation machines, haven't been released yet (they're expected at the upcoming WWDC).  BootCamp allows you to boot to Windows, so MC runs just as it would on a Dell laptop.

Haven't gotten around to trying out Parallels yet.  sapnho, do you use it with video at all (XviD and the like) on Parallels Desktop?
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sapnho

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 05:23:29 pm »

No, I don't use video at at with parallels because I have no need to. I would recommend 2 GB if you want to use Parallels. It's pretty fast in fact.
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Listener

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2006, 12:53:04 pm »

I run MC through Parallel on a Duo Core Mac Mini without any problems.



Some questions for sapnho:

How much have you used MC 11 on your Mac? 

Are your music files stored in folders on a MAC OSX managed folder?  I would want to store music files on disk space manaaged by OSX.c

Do you find that audio playback is glitch free?

Do you consider that running MC 11 through Parallel on a Mac is good enough to be your only way to run MC 11?

I'll appreciate any details about your practical experience.

Bill


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sapnho

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2006, 02:11:00 am »

Bill,

running MC through Parallels on a Mac is glitch free indeed. Currently my music is stored on a Windows server. Having an OSX server should be a problem either. Just using an OSX formatted hard disk may not work-I just haven't tried that one yet. Using a NAS will work.

I generally don't like reverting to Windows given the fact that the user experience with a Mac is so much nicer. But if you start to compare iTunes with MC, the clear winner is MC, there is just no doubt here.
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Listener

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2006, 05:01:10 pm »

Bill,

running MC through Parallels on a Mac is glitch free indeed. Currently my music is stored on a Windows server. Having an OSX server should be a problem either. Just using an OSX formatted hard disk may not work-I just haven't tried that one yet. Using a NAS will work.

I generally don't like reverting wo Windows given the fact that the user experience with a Mac is so much nicer. But if you start to compare iTunes with MC, the clear winner is MC, there is just no doubt here.

Thanks for the detailed response. 

I would prefer to had the music files on an OSX managed volume.

I agree that MC is much, much better than iTunes. 

Bill

 
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2006, 08:27:36 pm »

Having the music files on an HFS formatted volume (in your parlance "managed by OSX") is fine, as long as you've installed HFS drivers on the Windows "virtual machine".  There is a product called MacDrive which will do this (it is not free but it works perfectly and there is a free trial).  You just need to load up your Windows virtual machine, and then install MacDrive on it.  Windows apps will then be able to see and read/write to your HFS and HFS+ partitions.

I actually format many of my external drives to HFS+ because it is a much more flexible file system (as far as file sizes, format sizes, and fragmentation) than FAT32, and with MacDrive it can be read/written by both my Macs and my PCs.  NTFS (while nice) is obviously out for any disks that I might need to use with my Macs, as Microsoft won't open up the standard for it so that other OSes can properly use those partitions.
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Listener

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2006, 01:42:42 am »

More good, detailed info.  Thanks, Glynor.

Bill
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john h

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2006, 08:24:50 pm »

Glynor and saphno, more questions from the peanut gallery if you have the time:

Right now, I have a PC with a 150 GB hard drive that houses all my music.  I like the idea of adding the macbook and using it as another computer to run MC11.  Based on earlier emails, I would likely leave my music on the PC hard drive and access it on the macbook through my home network.

(1) From what I have read so far here and on the net, should I be able to access the music on the Mac using either Parallels or BootCamp?  Or, since the music is stored on a FAT32 hard drive, do I need to install MacDrive on the Macbook in order for the Mac to play the files on the FAT32 hard drive? 

(2) If I then format the mac's hard drive with HFS Plus, do I need to install MacDrive on my PC to be able to play this music on the PC MC11 program?

(2.5) is it actually possible to create a partition on the Mac's hard drive that uses the FAT32 format, maybe losing some of the benefits of the HFS Plus in order to gain the ease of playing the music easily on my PC? 

(3) If, following glynor's example, I then hooked up an external HD to the Mac and formatted it using HFS Plus, would I then need to install MacDrive on the Mac in order for MC11 to play the files (since technically, on the mac the MC11 software is running thru Windows XP)?

This really is just a bit confusing, but I still like the idea of trying out the Mac....

Thanks, guys!
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johnh

glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2006, 08:49:48 am »

You're making it a little harder than it needs to be.  I'll address your points, one by one...

Right now, I have a PC with a 150 GB hard drive that houses all my music.  I like the idea of adding the macbook and using it as another computer to run MC11.  Based on earlier emails, I would likely leave my music on the PC hard drive and access it on the macbook through my home network.

(1) From what I have read so far here and on the net, should I be able to access the music on the Mac using either Parallels or BootCamp?  Or, since the music is stored on a FAT32 hard drive, do I need to install MacDrive on the Macbook in order for the Mac to play the files on the FAT32 hard drive?

Macs can, by default, both read and write to FAT32 partitions.  They can also read-only NTFS partitions.  No additional software is needed.  However...

This applies only to local partitions (meaning partitions on drives that are directly connected to the Mac via SATA, ATA, USB, FireWire, or some other direct means).  When you access files over a network, the computers involved don't really care what the filesystem on the actual drive is, as long as it is shared via a method that they understand.  Windows shares files using the SMB protocol, which Mac's handle perfectly well.  To share files over a network from the Mac to a Windows box, you just need to turn on Windows file sharing on the Mac (and put the files in a shared folder).  The computer connecting over the network doesn't know or care what the file system of the actual shared drive is.  Macs can also see and use Windows file shares without any additional software.  You can just click on Go --> Connect to Server (from inside the finder) and type in smb://<windows-machine's-name-here> and click Connect (or use any of the other network browsing tools).

On the Mac, you can download the free SharePoints app to define your own shared folders (by default it only shares the "Public" folder in your account's home folder.  Sharepoints lets you specify your own folders to share via AFP (Apple's Network sharing system for Macs) or SMB (Windows version of the same).

(2) If I then format the mac's hard drive with HFS Plus, do I need to install MacDrive on my PC to be able to play this music on the PC MC11 program?

The hard drive in the Mac will be formatted to HFS+.  That's the default file system for OSX.  The only time you need to use MacDrive (which is a Windows-only application) is to access the music from within either BootCamp (which reboots the Mac into Windows XP), or from within the Parallels "virtual machine" (which loads Windows XP in a window inside OSX).  While Macs can read NTFS and read/write FAT32/16, Windows isn't so friendly.  MacDrive allows Windows to read/write a locally connected HFS partition.  Also, when I say "use" MacDrive, you don't really need to do anything once it's installed.  It's kinda just a driver.  The only time you really "use" the application is to format a local disc to HFS from within Windows.  This is rarely needed though because you could just use OSX to do the formatting (which is quicker and easier).

What BootCamp does when you install it is it dynamically resizes the HFS+ partition on your Mac's hard drive to give you some free space.  Then, during the Windows install process you can format this space as NTFS or FAT as usual.  When you are booted to OSX, it can see both partitions (it's own and the new Windows one).  However, without MacDrive installed on the "Windows Side", when you are booted to Windows it can only see it's own partition (it will "see" the mac HFS partition, but it won't be able to read/write it, and will probably report it as unformatted space).  With MacDrive installed, then Windows will see it and assign it a drive letter.

The same thing applies to Parallels.  Instead of forcing you to reboot to Windows, Parallels lets you run Windows inside a "window" from within OSX.  It's still regular old windows though.  Instead of formatting an actual partition though, Parallels tricks Windows into thinking a special (large) file on the Mac's hard drive is it's disk (and it formats that file and sees it as it's drive).  Unless you install MacDrive on THAT windows install, then that "drive" is all the Parallels version of Windows will see (once you do install MacDrive, then it will "see" the rest of the Mac's hard drive).

(2.5) is it actually possible to create a partition on the Mac's hard drive that uses the FAT32 format, maybe losing some of the benefits of the HFS Plus in order to gain the ease of playing the music easily on my PC? 

Yes.  OSX can read/write and create FAT32 partitions.  The biggest limitation of these partitions is file size though (no files can be bigger than 2 GB).  That's why I install MacDrive on all of my Windows machines and format my external drives to HFS+ (usually anyway).  HFS is a much better file system (it doesn't have those size limits, it's journaled, and it doesn't fragment easily).

(3) If, following glynor's example, I then hooked up an external HD to the Mac and formatted it using HFS Plus, would I then need to install MacDrive on the Mac in order for MC11 to play the files (since technically, on the mac the MC11 software is running thru Windows XP)?

Yes.  However, you'd only install MacDrive into the "windows side" of the Mac, be it BootCamp or Parallels or both.  Again, MacDrive is a Windows application.  While technically, I believe MacDrive's license is per-computer, they don't prevent you from installing it multiple times in any way.  I don't know how it works on multiple physical machines, but I'm sure you're fine installing it on the same machine in both Parallels and Bootcamp (if you do both).

Keep in mind one important thing.  Anything you save from inside Parallels (unless you save it to a real FAT32 partition or you use MacDrive) will be inaccessable from basically anywhere else.  That's because it isn't using a "real" partition but that special file I mentioned earlier.  I don't think there's any way to "open" this file up and "see" the stuff inside it from within OSX or "real" windows.  I could be wrong on this, as I haven't tried it (you might be able to load it from inside OSX)....
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 09:04:35 am »

The general rule-of-thumb is that Macs play well with other Windows machines and drives, but Windows does not play well with Mac stuff.  This is because Microsoft doesn't have to work with others (because their market share is so much bigger).

The only exception is NTFS formatted drives.  Macs can read those fine, but can't write to them.  That's because Microsoft owns patents on that file system and prevents other operating systems from properly writing to it (those Linux geeks are working on it, but progress has been very slow).
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john h

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2006, 08:53:27 pm »

Thank you, kind sir.  That's awfully helpful, and I will put your guidance to good use.

You're making it a little harder than it needs to be.
 

Dude, you have no idea.  You must have spoken with my wife (and kids, coworkers, dogs, etc...)
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johnh

glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2006, 02:50:04 pm »

Hmmmmm.....

http://www.codeweavers.com/beta/cxmac/

Quote
CrossOver Mac will be the very best way to run your Windows applications on your Intel based Mac. It will let you install and run Windows programs as though they were native, all without having to buy or run a copy of Windows itself.

Any takers to test it out with MC?  My MacBook Pro is currently out-of-commission for a little while, but I'd be interested in seeing how this works!
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Listener

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2006, 10:35:40 am »

Hmmmmm.....

http://www.codeweavers.com/beta/cxmac/


Thanks for adding this to the thread.

The website has compatibility info.  The page for media players is at

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=113

I don't have a Mac but I'm interested.

Bill
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Marc

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2006, 10:39:04 am »

Hmmmmm.....

http://www.codeweavers.com/beta/cxmac/

Any takers to test it out with MC?  My MacBook Pro is currently out-of-commission for a little while, but I'd be interested in seeing how this works!
I'm interested in seeing the outcome of this as well.

Marc
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2006, 07:03:21 am »

i have been using MC with parallels desktop on a macbook pro for playing my audio collection for a few days now and mostly it works fine.  i have been able to use the server to play music on another pc laptop.  the one problem i am having is that i cannot access the YADB database to get info on CDs.

i have just tried to install MC with crossover and the installation seems to go fine but when i try to launch MC the splash screen comes up but then nothing happens after that.

anyone else out there experimenting with this?

nick
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2006, 07:26:10 am »

using MC12 in parallels now and generally seems to be working fine, though i cant connect to the internet via MC with either MC11 or MC12, i.e. can't access YADB or Artist Info, etc. i can access internet using firefox in parallels, so it isnt a problem with my internet connection.

anyone got any ideas?

thanks

nick
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JimH

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2006, 08:18:34 am »

MC uses the IE control.  Can you install IE?
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2006, 09:11:53 am »

hi

IE was installed but when i checked it i couldn't connect to the internet through IE, only through firefox.  i restarted windows and then could access the internet through IE and could access artist info in MC12, but still cant access YADB through MC11 or 12. 

nick
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JimH

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2006, 09:21:50 am »

What version of IE is it?  6.0 or higher?
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2006, 11:39:57 am »

version 6.0.2990.2180.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519

nick
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2006, 03:26:59 pm »

has anyone got any ideas why i can't connect to YADB in MC11 or 12 via parallels (Mac Virtual PC software). I can access the internet OK in MC for artist info.  It isn't a firewall issue, as i have disabled firewall and still it doesn't work

thanks

nick
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2006, 03:34:41 pm »

Just to check... Does it make any difference if you set IE's Security level to Medium-Low or Low?

(Of course, and then just use Firefox from within Parallels for any real browsing you happen to need to do from withing Parallels for some weird reason).
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nickharambee

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2006, 03:44:48 pm »

no - but i just tried something else....

if i choose, 'lookup track info from YADB' under library options, i can connect to YADB - the track info it finds has nothing to do with the CD, but there must be a connection for it to find some info.  also i can submit info to YADB.  so why doesn't it find any info when i either insert a cd or choose 'update from CD database' under drives & devices i wonder?

nick
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glynor

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Re: Now that Macs run XP, will MC work on Macs?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2006, 03:00:22 pm »

Just thought I'd mention.

Some new Parallels beta goodness out today!  More here:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/12/1/6146
Quote
    *  New UI with emphasis on usability
    * Parallels can now use a BootCamp partition as a virtual HDD
    * Parallels can now boot from a Windows XP BootCamp partition directly
    * Improved graphic performance of up to 50 percent
    * Drag and drop files and folders between Windows and Mac
    * Coherency shows Windows applications as if they were actual Mac applications
    * Virtual Machines Catalog displays multiple virtual machines
    * Parallels application window can now be resized like any other application
    * Windows can now automatically adjust the screen resolution to the actual main window size
    * One-click Virtual Machine aliases
    * Improved USB support
    * Parallels Transporter Beta for migrating Windows PC, VMware, or Virtual PC VMs to Parallels VMs

This will be a free upgrade for Parallels users when released.
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