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[lalittle]

With MC12, how can I tell which songs in any given directory (viewing via "Drives and Devices") are in the Library and which are not?  In MC9/10/11, the little "note" icon was gold when a song was not in the library, and blue once it was imported.  I used this fact in my work so I could browse my drives via "Drives and Devices" and immediately tell which songs were imported and which were not.

With MC12, you see album art for all the icons, so I can't tell at a glance if any give song is in the library or not -- the gold vs. blue icon is no longer there.  I feel like I must be missing some way of doing this since I don't think MC12 would have completely eliminated this capability.

Thanks,

Larry

[marko]

it has.

AlexB, myself, and now yourself makes 3 users to lament the current state of affairs.

Everyone else is cock-a-hoop over the little art icons, affectionately dubbed 'alexicons' by jgreen.

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

so far, there's been no take-up...

[lalittle]

I don't even understand the concept of using art that small.  In my opinion, it's too small to really see the art, so what's the point?  It seems like a feature that was implemented "because it was possible" rather than because it served a purpose.

Files use "icons" -- i.e. "representations" of what the file is.  In my opinion, the icon should not be album art at all -- it should show what "type" of file it is (image, song, video, etc.) and whether or not it's currently imported (blue vs gold.)

This should hold for other media types as well in my opinion.  I've never liked the way video icons are always the same in MC.  I think that these should use the "gold/blue" status as well.

Larry 

[hit_ny]

Count me in the support as well.

The blue, gold icons were quite good. I'm not a fan of the art replacing them for all the reasons mentioned above.

personally i found the earlier system, effective and do not see the current system as improving on the former.

[Alex B]

Besides the missing import status display the icons make quick browsing of new video and big image files awkward because they trigger thumbnail generation. This is especially problematic if the files are on a slow network drive.

I would prefer to be able to use MC without building thumbnails when browsing even if the files are already imported. Previously it was possible in details view.

If my more comprehensive suggestions are not possible please just make these icons optional. The old system still works with audio files if no cover art is available. I guess that adding an on-off switch wouldn't be very difficult.

Also, please extend the import status display at least to video and image files. Perhaps it could be extended to all file types. For example, the icon could be grayscale when the file is not imported and in color when it is imported.

[marko]

Also, please extend the import status display at least to video and image files. Perhaps it could be extended to all file types. For example, the icon could be grayscale when the file is not imported and in color when it is imported.

previously, the image media type icon would be slightly less bright for non-imported images, for me, it was barely perceptible, and only any use in details view. I like the greyscale idea a lot. Good thinking.

[RobOK]

AlexB, myself, and now yourself makes 3 users to lament the current state of affairs.

Everyone else is cock-a-hoop over the little art icons, affectionately dubbed 'alexicons' by jgreen.

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

so far, there's been no take-up...

I think there are more than 3 people on this side.  It's hard to know when to post regarding these issues and when it was seen as "piling on" (do you use that saying in the UK?).

I think the initial impression by me was favorable, but I do miss knowing whether something is in or not in library.

[dcwebman]

I don't even understand the concept of using art that small.  In my opinion, it's too small to really see the art, so what's the point?  It seems like a feature that was implemented "because it was possible" rather than because it served a purpose.

I guess I'm in the minority on this one because I like the little cover art icons. I have always had a special column in my view for Image that said Yes or No whether an image was assigned to it. Now I can tell immediately if it does and can get rid of that column.

Regarding:

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

For version 60 it is working almost exactly like that in Drives & Devices except for displaying the cover art image if that file already has the artist/album in the library. In the Audio views, it works with the blue note if no art and cover art icon if there like suggested.

[NoCodeUK]

I didn't think much to these the first time they appeared in wa it v10?  They were removed then after similar complaints.  What I would really like is the ability to add a full size album cover by the side of a listing like WMP 11 does.  That would be nice.  These little icons are too small to be of any real use and we lose the ability to see something that was useful e.g. import status.

Adam

[Doof]

You can add me to the list as well. I hated it the first time it reared its ugly head.

I guess I'm in the minority on this one because I like the little cover art icons. I have always had a special column in my view for Image that said Yes or No whether an image was assigned to it. Now I can tell immediately if it does and can get rid of that column.

I just created a smartlist that shows me all files with no cover art. And then I just made sure it was empty. Everytime I import music I go through that smartlist until it's empty. Then I don't need a special column telling me if there's cover art, or useless little icons that are nearly indistinguishable from each other.

[glynor]

I actually kinda like the little thumb "alexicons" but I have absolutely no reason at all that I do.  I just like them.  The only remotely rational reason I can come up with is that when looking at a very large list of files (such as songs all by the same artist sorted by album -- but not drilled down to the album-only level) you can now visually easily tell where the "album borders" are.  This would make navigation in Standard View a small bit easier for me on my TV (where the text is sometimes hard to read).

Quite often, I'll be playing a large playlist (usually a View Scheme with a complicated smartlist style filter, with MC set to shuffle mode) but like to scroll through and choose a particular song every so often.  Since my "Mix" View Schemes are so huge, I sometimes don't bother to Add (as next to play) but just double-click to start a new track -- and just let it re-shuffle the rest of the tracks.  Visually discerning the album "borders" can make this task a little quicker and easier.

That's a fairly lame reason though.  I thought the previously mentioned idea of making the tiny thumbs their own "column" (and adding a new "status" column with the old color coded icons) was a great one.  That way, those of us who irrationally like the little buggers could have them, and those of you who hate them (but want the color coded icons) could have it your way.

I'd personally probably display both columns, though the color coded column would probably be off to the right (off screen) somewhere.  I, personally, don't have any reason to have files on my media drives that are not imported into the library.  I suppose if you have multiple libraries it could be useful...

[jgreen]

Okay, but if they get rid of the Alexicons, what feature are we going to name after Alex B?

The reason I don't rue the lack of a "blue note/gold note/red x" dingus is that I use Marko's great "Connected?" expression field.  This frees up that tiny square for the world's smallest cover art, the Alexicon, which I find marvelously relaxing to look at.  I suggest you guys try marko's script and start relaxing a bit yourselves.

[GHammer]

I like them because...
Well, I like them!

As for the status of in or out of the library, I really don't have any files that are out of the library and if I did, they wouldn't have cover art associated would they?

[hit_ny]

"Connected?"

This requires an extra column, it's also an expression call in userland for each file(!) in the viewscheme. Longer the list, the slower it will be to get the result.

Ok so you say, only use it for certain viewschemes then.

...whereas blue/gold are already in the name column and inlined, therefore much faster to display.

That expression is nevertheless a very important one, i have a smartlist that i use it with,called "find missing files". Let's me know MC can find everything and if not which.

[jgreen]

First Pluto, now the Alexicon.  I suppose that Rhode Island is next on their list . . .

[lalittle]

From a programming perspective, would it be complicated to offer a "show album art for icon" switch?  If not, then maybe this could be added to the "Tree and View" page in Options.

I'm not sure the "greyscale" idea would work given that it may not present enough visual difference with some monitors/lighting conditions -- especially with the already "grey" movie icon.  I think the blue/gold approach already worked very well, and could be applied to any icons.  It could even be an anything-other-than-gold/gold system -- i.e. where the icon was only gold if it was NOT imported, and changed to it's "normal color" after import.

Larry

[Deivit]

I like the Alexicons too... although for no particular reason. I also liked the small icons in the tree headers that have been recently pulled off.

Having said that, I think that Marko's suggestions are a reasonable solution.

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

[Alex B]

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

This would not be enough for me.

One thing that is not mentioned in thread yet is the missing ability to quickly distinguish different media types in a Details view that contains imported music and image files (sometimes music videos too). In use all media views a lot. I have tagged my album related images and videos with the same artist, album and year tags as the music files have.

Also, my newly added folders contain usually at least music and images. Because I name the actual cover art file correctly MC shows the music files with the icon even before importing. Before importing I often browse the folder in Drives & Devices or just drag everything to Playing Now and import from there.

[GHammer]

I drop files into Playing Now before importing them too. And though I'm sometimes absent minded, I know that the files are not imported and are available. I just put them there, I'm listening/tagging/whatever before I finalize the import by moving them to their proper location. Then Otto can do his thing.

To tell what kind of file I have in Playing Now, I look at the File Type column.

I can see a use for a "This file is missing" indicator (if Otto is not removing missing files).
Other than that, I think it's a reach.

[Alex B]

My file type and/or media type columns are usually placed somewhere far right. They are not visible without scrolling. I could move one of them, but these columns are wider than the plain "icon", which I cannot switch off or move. The icon reserves some space anyway. I would like to spend that space for something useful as before with MC11.1.

Also, when I select files in an all media view with MC11.1 I can instantly distinguish the difference between audio and image files. Sometimes I select just audio files and sometimes album images too for a slideshow. Currently they all show a small icon and the front cover image uses the same cover art icon as the audio files. If I have a playlist that contains tracks from various albums and several images I usually have to scroll horizontally.

I could change how I use these views, but MC11.1 worked perfectly fine for me.

Some of my MC 11.x screenshots:



In this screenshot I changed my usual column order to make the file type column visible.










Click to enlarge.

[Shelly]

I'm also one that initially missed being able to determine import status by the icon color.  However, I'm finding that, as glynor stated, the coverart icons are helpful to visually group tracks within albums.  My workaround has been to add the "date imported" field to my view schemes, which when scrolling lets me get a quick eyeshot of those tracks without a value and therefore not imported.

I've always used library tooltips to quickly determine the tracks without coverart.  To double check, I use the task smartlist - "no images."

[Alex B]

An option(s ?) would make everybody happy.

Here's what I suggested previously:

The current system:




A fully configurable system would make possible to move the icon columns, have one or two visible columns and also switch the columns off.

An example of how it could look:



two simultaneous icon columns



the "image icon" column is moved further right

[hit_ny]

However, I'm finding that, as glynor stated, the coverart icons are helpful to visually group tracks within albums.

Why isn't the album column sufficient enough for this ? If you add [Album] to any sort rule it will be grouped this way automatically.

Whereas as Alex shows in the above pics, its not possible to distinguish between audio, video, other media etc with just those icons. I'd say thats another disadvanatage in addition to losing the import status.

So we are 2 features lost vs. (?) gained.

The way it was in 11.1 and below did all of this elegantly w.o resorting to workarounds etc.

I'm still waiting to see any more reasons where the icons are functionally more useful other than aesthetics(?) when compared to the older system.

[glynor]

Why isn't the album column sufficient enough for this ? If you add [Album] to any sort rule it will be grouped this way automatically.

As I said before ... It's a fairly lame reason.  However, what I was referring to was quick visual identification of the album borders.  I generally do have most of my view schemes (music ones anyway) sorted using [Artist] [Album] [Disc #] [Track #] [Name]... However, visually IDing the difference between Pink Floyd - Meddle and Pink Floyd - Meddler isn't always very easy when you're quickly scanning a list of 9000 tracks on a TV screen that isn't super "text friendly".  The little thumbs allow you to see the "edges" of the albums without even thinking about it.

That said.... That isn't a very good reason.  I, personally, really like Alex's idea.

[lalittle]

Is this subject still being considered for changes by the developement team?  I'm just curious if further discussion of this is helpful to the developers.  My vote would still be to be able to CHOOSE "art" or "media type icon" for the icon, and to have ALL the icons use the blue vs gold theme.  To ME, the icon does not serve it's purpose if it's a "picture" rather than an icon.  The "generic" icons (i.e. notes, film reel, blue vs gold) have always been useful to me.

Thanks,

Larry

[GHammer]

Well, I still must be missing the boat.
I have no idea what functional difference there is.
I have not lost anything yet, maybe I'm not trying hard enough.
You have the ability to know what is imported and not imported.




Even with properly named cover art, the files not imported still have the gold note.

For imported files, I can use the filetype.
Not wanting to display that column or scroll to its location seems a rather poor reason to remove the tiny icons.

[hit_ny]

Is this subject still being considered for changes by the developement team?  I'm just curious if further discussion of this is helpful to the developers.  My vote would still be to be able to CHOOSE "art" or "media type icon" for the icon, and to have ALL the icons use the blue vs gold theme.  To ME, the icon does not serve it's purpose if it's a "picture" rather than an icon.  The "generic" icons (i.e. notes, film reel, blue vs gold) have always been useful to me.

Defnitely !!!

..i think they are waiting to see how the rest feel about this when 12 goes public. If enough ppl create a stink then ..maybe.

..but you know, i bet an equal amt of ppl will think its a good idea..n00bs that were not used to the previous system and others for nothing more than personal reasons. In which case it just gets left in as thats the easiest thing to do.

The only purpose AFAICT is eye-candy. It looks interesting (maybe) on a screen-shot for the product. Something you spend how long, maybe a few seconds looking at, i found it gets old quite fast, if you (actually) use MC. If it were just that, ie did not replace a useful, effective system i would care less.

One place the icons (might) be useful is if you have an enormous playlist in PN. You prolly dont care much if its imported or not, but then you can spot tracks from the same album just by looking at the icons, without having to look at the Album column.

[Alex B]

I wonder if the new system includes something that prevents from easily making the choice between the old and new icon display style optional? Otherwise, I don't understand why a simple global option is not added.

The requests for new features are naturally more debatable.

[lalittle]

Even with properly named cover art, the files not imported still have the gold note.

Not on my system.  Regardless of whether or not a file is imported, if the file has cover art embedded in it, it displays the art and NOT the gold icon.  Perhaps the difference is that my art is embedded.

The bottom line is that I prefer to scan the "name" column and immediately see 1) which type of file it is (i.e. note for music, etc.) and 2) whether or not it's already in the library (blue vs. gold icon.)

Larry

[GHammer]

Not on my system.  Regardless of whether or not a file is imported, if the file has cover art embedded in it, it displays the art and NOT the gold icon.  Perhaps the difference is that my art is embedded.

Likely. Another good reason not to embed images IMO.

[lalittle]

Likely. Another good reason not to embed images IMO.

Assuming it's true that they DON'T display if they're embedded, I'd say this was more likely a bug in MC than a limitation from using embedded images.  That said, if you DO prefer to see the embedded images (as some people have said), then embedding images would be considered a good thing.

I prefer to embed the images since this is the only way that I'm guaranteed to NEVER lose the cover art or have any issues with it not being found.  If the art is embedded, I don't have to keep track of any seperate files -- the art is ALWAYS included with the file.

Larry

[Alex B]

MC displays cover art if it can when media files are introduced to MC. The permanent import status and the used cover art system don't affect this. MC has temporary Explorer and Playing Now databases, which store the cover art info as well. MC builds the thumbnails and icons automatically if the cover art files are embedded or the external cover art files match the rules.

[GHammer]

I prefer to embed the images since this is the only way that I'm guaranteed to NEVER lose the cover art or have any issues with it not being found.  If the art is embedded, I don't have to keep track of any seperate files -- the art is ALWAYS included with the file.

I use external art because I can first.
But that came from the days I used -v2 or CBR 320 MP3s and scanned in CD covers for the art. The files were smallish and the cover art was quite large. To add a high res scan to each of that size MP3 was silly IMO. Using lossless and a MUCH smaller cover as I do now, it would make little difference.

[lalittle]

I want to keep this discussion going since this issue came up for me again today, and created a situation that was a pain in the butt.

I wanted to view some folders and change which songs were officially imported into my library and which ones were not.  I effectively COULD NOT do this since there was not way of telling which songs were already in my library.  ALL the files get the "Album Art" icon regardless of which were already imported.

On top of this, my movies are not easily distinguishable from my music since they ALL get little square "pictures" for icons.  I MUCH prefer using the actual "icons" for icons (i.e. the "note" icon for audio, the "reel" for video, etc. rather than using art for the icon.)  Is there any way to force MC to NOT use art for the file icons?  It just makes the view confusing, and the TINY art is not even identifiable anyway since it's way too small to see the picture.  Is there perhaps settings file I could edit to get the traditional icons to be displayed for the track view, but still have the art display in other windows (playing now, etc.)?  This issue drives me a bit nutty every once in a while.

Thanks,

Larry

[StFeder]

Please add me to the imaginary list.

Today I did my first steps with MC12 and I was quiet impressed. But these little Icons beside every file... I don't like them either. First I thought I must be doing something wrong and was sure, it happened when I was playing with all its options, but I didn’t find some for this. I just was searching the forum to find out how to switch it back but I just find discussions about it.

Just one point to add: I wasn’t able to find the playing file in my library just with scrolling through it, because with all that thumbnails the little green arrow isn’t seen as fast as in the past. I had to do a search…

So because MCs people always say “But don’t beg us making it an option” I would say: just kick it Referring to the fact so many people out here like it and even many dislike: perhaps you should think about
a) making it an option or
b) do it as AlexB said.

IMHO making it an option would be the better way for it, because with AlexB there’re the two icons (thumbnail cover art plus the little note / film role / picture).

[Alex B]

I requested:

- put the icons in a separate movable column that can be "switched" on or off indepedently in each view scheme in "Customize Current View". This column could be dragged to a preferred location in the row of columns.

- make possible to separately change the column behavior in each view scheme
(cover art icons - or - the import status/media type icons)

- add the import status display to other media types too. (In MC11.1 it works only with audio files.)

- make possible to add a second movable column in each view scheme so that both types of these icons could by visible in a details view at the same time.


A simple "cover art icons"/ "old system" option would be needed at least. This option should be in the "Customize Current View" so that it could be set differently in different views.

The current behavior forces MC to create a thumbnail for each browsed file in details view. This reduces browsing speed and is especially problematic with networked video files when they are initially browsed.

[StFeder]

I fully agree with Alex Bs request!

Sorry for getting you wrong first, Alex.

[lepa]

Count me in the list too. Didn't like them before and for same reasons don't like them now either.
They take away usability, slows the browsing down and also look ugly to me. Sorry.

[rjm]

I support Alex's proposal.

I've gotta have the ability to easily tell if a file is imported.

[jgreen]

Alex, Why not just have the Alexicons (sorry) visible only if the "blue note" is the current status?  Granted, you would have multiple icons (blue notes+alexicons) denoting the same status, but at least you wouldn't have all this columnizing and optionating which in my short experience here seems to get nowhere.

[hit_ny]

slows the browsing down

That's one i missed,

How much longer will displaying the full library take now ?

Maybe the display is just as quick, but scrolling

so they respond by caching...

but why bother at all.

[lalittle]

A simple "cover art icons"/ "old system" option would be needed at least. This option should be in the "Customize Current View" so that it could be set differently in different views.

This is what I'd like.  I don't want to completely "turn off" the icon column (I definitely WANT an icon for every file.)  I simply don't like the tiny Album Art icons as much as the generic icons.

Note also that even with the old system, you could not tell which movies were imported and which were not.  I still feel that it would work well if the icons for any file NOT imported into the library was gold, including both audio AND video icons.  At the moment, video icons look the same whether or not the file is imported into the library.

Thanks,

Larry

[4BYE]

Here another vote for the old way. (blue/gold)

[coolblue]

I'll add my vote for the old way. I'm not as concerned about the indicator about whether or not the song is in my library - as another poster commented (somewhere else, if not here) that the only time a song *isn't* in my lib is when I've dragged it from Explorer directly to Playing Now. To me, those itty-bitty splotches of color are a distraction. If I want to see album art I'll use the Thumbnails or Album Thumbnails views.

[johnnyboy]

I requested:

- put the icons in a separate movable column that can be "switched" on or off indepedently in each view scheme in "Customize Current View". This column could be dragged to a preferred location in the row of columns.

- make possible to separately change the column behavior in each view scheme
(cover art icons - or - the import status/media type icons)

- add the import status display to other media types too. (In MC11.1 it works only with audio files.)

- make possible to add a second movable column in each view scheme so that both types of these icons could by visible in a details view at the same time.


A simple "cover art icons"/ "old system" option would be needed at least. This option should be in the "Customize Current View" so that it could be set differently in different views.

The current behavior forces MC to create a thumbnail for each browsed file in details view. This reduces browsing speed and is especially problematic with networked video files when they are initially browsed.

This sounds like the best/most logical solution to me.

Per View Scheme would be great (I think making each view scheme behave as independantly as possible from each other gives the app incredibly HUGE amounts of power in terms of how useful it can be both for an individual and in terms of meeting every seperate users needs).

At the very least make it a global option that people can choose to use or not.

As a seperate column is of course another option that seems logical and a good solution?

[lee269]

In my first 5 mins with v12 I picked up on this and now I see the beta team have thoroughly analysed it. I guess this might be a regular discovery. Might there be any sense in a sticky thread explaining the 'common' requests discussed and subsequently discarded/revised during the closed beta period to avoid latecomers like me flogging dead horses?

Anyway, add me to the list for reinstating the doctype/import status icons. Id vote for AlexBs options or just a return to v11.1 if simpler.

[jgreen]

Lee--

Speaking for myself, I hope the "latecomers" go ahead and start re-flogging the "dead horses".  Yes, a lot of the stuff you're seeing has been talked about before, but I for one don't think a horse can truly die around here, no matter how much it's flogged.  IMO, the point is for us to keep offering input on things we feel are important. 

[Quixote]

I would like to vote for the Alex solution too 

[Matt]

There are unsubstantiated rumors that something is happening in this area soon.

[jgreen]

Lee, looks like your "dead horse" just got up and started trotting the back stretch at Pimlico.