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[paragmehta]

Using 11.1.194.

Seems update to album art (inside file) and tags are not synced.  Would be great to see this working.  The file timestamp on PC does change, what data is used as key sync?

Thanks.

[Magic_Randy]

Any chance the iPod sync will be enhanced?

The only way to reflect changes to cover art and lyrics is to clear the iPod and sync from scratch - this takes a long time if you have 13,000 tracks on the iPod.

[lalittle]

I posted about this issue a while back (version 188 I believe.)  Adding album art to songs (which changes the file size as well) or making a change to the year tag do not result in the file being re-synched -- MC continues to think these files are already synched.

This has been an annoying issue for me as well, and has resulted in my re-initializing and doing a full sync from scratch on a few occasions (which takes a lot of time.)

We should post this issue to the main bug thread again (as I did with 188.)

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

I think they are:

1) Aware of the problem
2) Have no intention of fixing it in MC11

Assuming this is true, I hope it gets addressed in MC12 (oops - MC12 comment = delete or lock thread)

[SwellGuy]

This is something that we've thought about a lot but there are no simple solutions.

As we see it, using filesize or timestamp are either unreliable or will result in too many 'needs updating' false positives.

We can't use filesize in the comparison because of conversion. That is, we don't know what size the file will be after we convert the original file until we convert it and it only works if the images are stored in the files.

We can't use timestamp because several things could effect the timestamp of a file that shouldn't trigger a transfer and once again it's only effective if the images are stored in the files.

This is all complicated further when you consider that there may be a few different players and/or computers syncing files to the iPod. We can't be sure we're the ones that put the file there but we have to compare it with the tracks in the transfer queue that we have.

[lalittle]

Thanks for the informationn Swellguy -- I understand that these things are always a lot more complicated than they may seem on the surface.

That said, I'm still confused why the actual tags themselves can't be used for the sync comparison -- i.e. not the "timestamp," but the actual "year" tag or the "Image" field.  If the "image" tag or "year" tag are different between the file on the iPod and the file on the system, can't MC see this, or are these tags somehow "altered" when the file is transferred to the iPod such that it can't tell if changes occurred?  I'm not sure about the "image," but isn't the "year" a standard tag that remains part of the file even after it's transferred?  I know that with Rockbox, I can display the "year" of the songs that I sync via MC.  I'm just curious how this all works.

Thanks again for any clarification on this,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

Life and software can be complicated.  The trick is to find simple solutions to simple problems.  Even if the simple solutions are not perfect, they are better than no solutions.

Example 1.  If the lyrics tag or cover art tag is blank on the iPod and now has a value, sync it.  You may still miss changes, but many of us are trying to add missing information and have no way of syncing the tracks without wiping the iPod clean and starting over.  Takes a long time for a 60gb iPod that is full.

Example 2.  At least for the lyrics you could detect changes through a string compare.  Takes a long time maybe, but less than wiping the iPod clean and starting over.  This could be combined with example 1 (e.g. resync if the tag goes from blank to a value, and an option to compare for changes).

Example 3.  Give us a way to identify what we changed (e.g. build a playlist, like recently ripped, that has tag changes for cover art. Another one for lyrics).  Combine this with the ability to force a sync for a playlist (e.g. for this playlist, replace all for the tracks).

None of these solutions are perfect.  All are better than nothing.


Randy

[Magic_Randy]

One more comment - one more question – and I’ll stop my whining

Comment: I only use MC.  For users that are committed to a single way of managing the libraries, we do not care about catering for the flexibility of using multiple tools to manage the libraries and sync the iPod.  So, if the solution to the problem means tracking it in an MC database, and this will not work if we use some other combination of tools, so be it.  Why should the users committed to MC be penalized (no solution) to provide flexibility for those that are not committed to MC for managing everything.  The only obligation in the MC software is to not corrupt the data.  Not all features have to work with every combination, so long as the restrictions are clear.

Question:  Does iTunes work in this situation? Or does it have the same limitation?  If iTunes does handle it, what is their approach? (I know – this is really more than 1 question)

Randy

[lalittle]

On a related note, I just re-ripped some albums because I wanted them at a higher quality VBR (the were CBR previously.)  These were also considered to be already on the iPod when I synched it.  This definitely presents a problem since I'm slowly ripping my CDs at better VBR bitrates, and the only way to ensure that these are trasferred to the iPod is to manually delete them from the iPod before I sync.  This becomes tedious since it means extra manual steps necessary for synching, and I have to remember which albums I've re-ripped since the last sync.

The thing that strikes me about this is that I "thought" that this wasn't necessary a while back -- i.e. that when I re-ripped songs, MC could always tell that they were "new" even though they had the same filename.  I can't be sure of this, however, since I was never specifically paying that much attention to it before.  Did the process change from before?

What are the actual parameters that are used to determine if songs are new or not?  It seems like it's only looking at the song title tag right now.

Thanks again,

Larry

[Jakester]

I too have been asking for a solution here.

I like Magic_Randy's ideas.  But I'd make it even simpler.  Just have MC generate a playlist containing every song that has been modified by MC in any way since the last iPod sync.  MC knows when a sync takes place, so this should not be too hard.  Then the user can just have that playlist as one of the automatic sync playlists.  Done.  And as Magic_Randy states, why worry about those using multiple tools?  Just make it work right for MC!

[Magic_Randy]

This would work for me - again - any simple solution is better than what we have.

[SwellGuy]

Try this out...

Edit the PDT file (C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 11\Data\Default Resources\PDT.xml)

Add the following line to the iPod device entry (the very last entry)
<ChangeKeyExpression>[Rating]\1[Composer]\1[Date Modified]\1</ChangeKeyExpression>

This adds 'Date Modified' to the change key expression and will help to identify some of the types of tag changes you mention.

The drawback of course is that this isn't foolproof. For example, if you don't have 'Store images in tags also' specified for Track Images Location it won't get triggered on cover art changes. And if you sync on more than one machine MC's always going to want to update the files on the iPod.

If the benefits out weigh the drawbacks we may implement it as the default.

Let me know how it works out...

Rick

[Magic_Randy]

Try this out...

Edit the PDT file (C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 11\Data\Default Resources\PDT.xml)

Add the following line to the iPod device entry (the very last entry)
<ChangeKeyExpression>[Rating]\1[Composer]\1[Date Modified]\1</ChangeKeyExpression>

This adds 'Date Modified' to the change key expression and will help to identify some of the types of tag changes you mention.

Rick,

I can experiment with this - assuming this will create the list, how do we force a sync?  As I recall, there is no way to force a sync for things already on the iPod.

Randy

[SwellGuy]

This won't create a list - when you look at the status of the files on the iPod it will indicate that the updated files are out of sync. It will delete and replace the out of sync files.

[lalittle]

Swellguy,

I'll give this a try as soon as I can.  I understand that idea of this making things more difficult when synching with different machines, but I'd be willing to bet that most people just synch with one machine.

Unfortunatly, the drive on my main system just failed this weekend, so I won't be able to do any syncs for at least a few days.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Try this out...

Edit the PDT file (C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 11\Data\Default Resources\PDT.xml)

Add the following line to the iPod device entry (the very last entry)
<ChangeKeyExpression>[Rating]\1[Composer]\1[Date Modified]\1</ChangeKeyExpression>

This adds 'Date Modified' to the change key expression and will help to identify some of the types of tag changes you mention.

Rick,

This didn't work for me for some reason.  I closed MC and added the line as instructed.  I then re-opened MC and checked the sync.  It told me that ALL the songs would have to be synched -- i.e. this line made MC think ALL the songs had changed.

Is there perhaps an error on that line somewhere, or did I not put it in the right place?  Here is what this section of the file looked like after I added the line:

   <!-- **************************************************************************************
   Type 3 (iPod)
   *************************************************************************************** -->
   <Device>
      <Type>3</Type>
      <Vendor>Apple</Vendor>
      <Name>iPod</Name>
      <DeviceID>apple_computer__inc.&amp;ipod</DeviceID>
      <PlaylistBasePath>ROOT</PlaylistBasePath>
      <SupportedFileTypes>mp3;aa;wav;aif;iff;aac;m4b;m4a;m4p</SupportedFileTypes>
      <ChangeKeyExpression>[Rating]\1[Composer]\1[Date Modified]\1</ChangeKeyExpression>
   </Device>

</PDT>

Thanks for any further assistance with this,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

Rick,

This didn't work for me for some reason.  I closed MC and added the line as instructed.  I then re-opened MC and checked the sync.  It told me that ALL the songs would have to be synched -- i.e. this line made MC think ALL the songs had changed.

Is there perhaps an error on that line somewhere, or did I not put it in the right place?  Here is what this section of the file looked like after I added the line:

Thanks for any further assistance with this,

Larry

My guess is that it did work.  If I understand correctly you will now have to do a sync, which will sync everything.  The next time it will only sync the changes.

By adding the additional key - the first sync will create a new baseline.

Rick - if this works it would be a great standard feature.

Randy

[lalittle]

My guess is that it did work.  If I understand correctly you will now have to do a sync, which will sync everything.  The next time it will only sync the changes.

By adding the additional key - the first sync will create a new baseline.

Rick - if this works it would be a great standard feature.

Randy

Ah... that makes sense.

Rick -- If you read this, could you confirm Randy's hypothesis?

Thanks,

Larry

[SwellGuy]

No, it doesn't have to establish a new baseline? There are a couple of possibilities...

1) The files were converted as part of the transfer process - they would have a different modified date.

2) It's fallout from your harddrive crash.

3) You sync'd the files from another machine.

[lalittle]

No, it doesn't have to establish a new baseline? There are a couple of possibilities...

1) The files were converted as part of the transfer process - they would have a different modified date.

This was not the case -- the files were all created as mp3s using MC.

2) It's fallout from your harddrive crash.

It turned out to be something else -- full disc scans (including surface scans using both the windows scanner and checkdsk /R) reveal no errors.

3) You sync'd the files from another machine.

This is the only machine used to sync the iPod.

Something else is going on.  Could you confirm that I have the line placed correctly (see my post above.)  Also, could somebody else confirm whether or not they get the same behavior I'm seeing on their system?  When I add this line, MC wants to delete and resync everything.

One thing I noticed is that sometime since my last "full" sync, MC has changed the way it names files placed on the iPod.  Rather than a truncated version of the filename, it now renames the files to a random 4 letter word such as "WXPE.MP3" for example.  Could this change have something to do with what I'm seeing?

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Did anything about the way MC stored certain tags change over the last few months?  I haven't made any changes to all my songs, but I'm wondering if the "changes" that MC is seeing are due to some new way MC works rather than the actual files changing.

Rick -- did you confirm that I placed the line correctly (see a few posts back)?

Thanks again for any help with this.  I'd like to use this feature if possible.

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

Larry

I can try it over the weekend myself.  Right now it takes too long to do the test as my full sync takes 5 hours – this is also the reason I’m so keen to figure out how to make this work.

Also, I don’t understand how MC really does the sync, so I can only guess why it does not work for you.

The reason for my prior hypothesis is that MC must be maintaining something in a database.  The change we are trying to add in the .xml file is adding the change date to this database.  So this is what is driving the sync.  It must also be checking something on the iPod (the file change date for that track?).  By comparing the change date in the iPod vs. the change date in the MC database it has determined what to sync.  Thant’s why I concluded that the second time thru this may work.

On the other hand, what is added in the .xml file may only be a logical expression used to do the sync.  That would suggest it is taking the result of this logical expression, which now contains the change date, and dynamically compares that to what is on the PC vs. what is on the iPod.  If that is the case, running it twice has no value – something else is wrong.

Rick – any comments?

Randy

[lalittle]

Just to test, I tried deleting "[Rating]\1[Composer]\1" from the new line, but I still had the same problem.  Until I got rid of the "Date Modified" part of the line, MC continued to think that ALL of the songs were "new."

Thanks again for any help with this,

Larry

[SwellGuy]

Here's the logic in a nutshell...

1) First we look for a file match based on the follow matchkey:

[Name][Artist][Album][Genre][Track #][Media Type]

2) Once we establish a file match we check for change based on the following changekey:

[Ratings][Composer]

(Note: This is the default changekey for iPod's. By adding the changekey line to the PDT file you overrode the default to [Ratings][Composer][Date Modified].)

By process of elimination you can determine which of the changekey components is sounding the alarm. It looks like [Date Modified] is the culprit. There's nothing wrong with the entry in the PDT - that's exactly how it should look.

Use explorer to check the Date Modified for a few files and see if it's actually working as intended. You'll have to hover over one of the criptic files on the iPod to figure out what file it is - then check it with it's counterpart on your PC. Can you confirm the dates are different? If you add one more file to the sync, sync, and then recheck sync, does that file require resyncing?

Note: The criptic filenames are not causing the problem - as you can see filename isn't part of the matchkey or changekey.

Have you run any library-wide maintainence commands like update tags from files?

Also, Date Modified is not being saved by the MC database it is the file date modified attribute. Adding it to the changekey just instructs MC to compare the date modified info for the two files it's comparing.

[Magic_Randy]

Rick,

Thanks for the sync logic.  I'll start testing based on this explanation.

Larry - I'll let everyone know what I find.

[Magic_Randy]

Well, I did my test.  Maybe it works – maybe there is a problem. 

1) I took an iPod with 13,000 tracks on it.  I made sure it was 100% in sync
2) I made the change to the .xml file.
3) I tries a sync but it was 100% in sync (as it should have been)
4) I changed the lyrics on 1 song
5) I did a sync – MC showed 1 track to sync (as it should have been)
6) I checked the iPod – the changed lyrics showed up
7) I changed the lyrics back & did another sync
Again a single track was sync’d (as it should have been)
9) I checked the iPod and everything was perfect.

Before throwing the party, I decided to bring my wife’s iPod up to current.

1) It showed 12000+ tracks to sync – it should have shown ~100 (same as my step 1 above)
2) It looks like the same problem Larry was reporting.
3) Other than the iPod name – both my wife’s and my iPod should have been the same ?

So, I plugged my iPod back in, and MC said it was 100% in sync.

My next step will be to do a full sync on my wife’s iPod to see if I can get that to work.

So – I think this solution works – I just don’t know why it worked on 1 iPod and not the other.

Randy

[lalittle]

Randy,

Thanks for the report.  I'm wondering if this somehow has something to do with using two different iPods on the same system, which I'm doing as well.  I'll have to check my other iPod and see if I get a "fully synched" response from MC.

Regarding this question:

Have you run any library-wide maintainence commands like update tags from files?

No -- I've made no changes that would effect all the files, or even a large portion of the files for that matter.  99% of my files are identical to the way they were on my last sync.

Thanks again,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

1/3 of the way thru a sync estimated at 7 1/2 hours - the PC froze.

This has happened before with MC.  I had to kill the PC.  Even task manager could not function.

Anyway - I hate full sync's with a large database.

I will now initialize the iPod and start again.

[lalittle]

1/3 of the way thru a sync estimated at 7 1/2 hours - the PC froze.

This has happened before with MC.  I had to kill the PC.  Even task manager could not function.

Anyway - I hate full sync's with a large database.

I will now initialize the iPod and start again.

Sorry to hear that.

On a side note, 7.5 hours sounds awfully long to me.  How big is the iPod, and how fast is the computer?  If memory serves, on the system I use for synching, a full sync from scratch of around 40gigs only takes a couple hours.  This is on a pretty old system (dual P3 1Gig) and a virus scanner IS running during the sync.

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

3.2 GHz  Pentium 4 PC with 1 gb of memory - XP
going to a 60gb iPod video - 13,000 tracks - free space after sinc 2gb.

This should be a sufficient spec PC to sync an iPod. 

BTW the 7 1/2 hour is what MC said it would take when I kicked off the sync.  It actually may have taken less if it had not froze up.

Anyway - This is a long time & I'm hoping MC12 helps in this regard.

[lalittle]

3.2 GHz  Pentium 4 PC with 1 gb of memory - XP
going to a 60gb iPod video - 13,000 tracks - free space after sinc 2gb.

That's obviously a MUCH faster system, but you're also synching about 30% more data, and about 50% more files.  I must encode at a higher average bitrate.

This should be a sufficient spec PC to sync an iPod.

No question.  As I said, I'm using a dual 1Gig P3.

Anyway - This is a long time & I'm hoping MC12 helps in this regard.

I'm not sure MC12 can sync any faster than MC11, but I also don't know if it would have really taken all that time (as you noted.)  You might want to try disabling any virus scanner you have running during the sync and see if this speeds things up.  Just remember to turn it back on after the sync.

Larry

PS.  I've never had MC freeze during a sync.  I've been using two iPods over about the last 3 or 4 years, starting with MC9.0.

[Magic_Randy]

The results are in:  Everything is perfect

Rick – you sure are a SwellGuy

Larry – I think I know the source of your trouble

Summary:
Everything works fine based on changing the .xml file.  I’ve been doing all of my testing based on changing the lyrics tag, but anything that changes the file, therefore the change date, should work just as well.  Keep in mind Rick’s comment regarding cover art – if it is not stored in the file, at may not give you the results you are looking for.  I cannot test that because all of my cover art is in the file.

Why I had trouble on 1 iPod and not the other?  Why it does not work for Larry?

I think I know.  First of all, it worked on 1 iPod and not the other - so I did a full sync on the second iPod – after that it works fine on both of my iPods.

Why did I have to do a full sync?  I think I know (this is only a guess)

Something impacting the check we are forcing has changed in different versions of MC.  I probably did a sync with 1 version for my wife’s iPod and did a more recent sync with a later version for my iPod.  As an example: awhile back there was a bug in MC where songs on the iPod were sorted in alphabetic order, not track order.  This has subsequently been fixed.  This fix had something to do with what was written to the iPod itself. 

Rick – this may be a simple solution – but very important to many users.  I would suggest that you make this an option, or even the default behavior, so other people can benefit.   

Rick – a quick question, when I do my next upgrade of MC (e.g. from 11.1.196 to 11.1.197) will this workaround go away?  Of course I could redo it if it’s gone, I’m just wondering.

[Magic_Randy]

That's obviously a MUCH faster system, but you're also synching about 30% more data, and about 50% more files.  I must encode at a higher average bitrate.

No question.  As I said, I'm using a dual 1Gig P3.

I'm not sure MC12 can sync any faster than MC11, but I also don't know if it would have really taken all that time (as you noted.)  You might want to try disabling any virus scanner you have running during the sync and see if this speeds things up.  Just remember to turn it back on after the sync.

Larry

PS.  I've never had MC freeze during a sync.  I've been using two iPods over about the last 3 or 4 years, starting with MC9.0.

Larry,

I've not had many situations where the PC froze - it's just painful when it happens during a multi-hour sync - also, the culprit could be something else (e.g. Norton), but the effect is the same...

This last one - while estimated at 7 1/2 hours - came in at 5 hours

[lalittle]

Something impacting the check we are forcing has changed in different versions of MC.  I probably did a sync with 1 version for my wife’s iPod and did a more recent sync with a later version for my iPod.  As an example: awhile back there was a bug in MC where songs on the iPod were sorted in alphabetic order, not track order.  This has subsequently been fixed.  This fix had something to do with what was written to the iPod itself. 

One question:  I've done very recent "update" syncs on my iPod using one of the most recent versions of MC.  The files added by these syncs are STILL considered to be "different" by MC.  Does this still work with your theory?  It seems like if your theory was correct, these recently synched songs would be considered okay, and only the songs synched with the earlier version of MC would show as needing to be re-synched.  This, however, is not the case on my iPod, where MC wants to re-sync ALL the songs.

I still haven't tried doing a FULL re-sync and then checking it, and based on your report, my bet would be that it will start working at that point.  I'm just wondering if we know yet what the actual issue is that is leading to the behavior that you saw, and that I'm still seeing.

I'm just not ready to take the time to do a full sync from scratch at this point.

Thanks for your tests,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

Larry,

Even with mine, the sync on each iPod was pretty recent, and I stay pretty current on downloads, but I don't know what versions - for sure - I used for these syncs.

Anyway, I suggest you do a full sync.  Only the computer has to work - not you.  My guess is it will do what you want after you do the full sync.

Good luck....

Randy

[lalittle]

Anyway, I suggest you do a full sync.  Only the computer has to work - not you.  My guess is it will do what you want after you do the full sync.

I think you're probably right.  There are other factors involved, however, and I just don't want to mess with something that is basically working at the moment.  I'll eventually do it, and I'll report back.

Thanks again,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

I think you're probably right.  There are other factors involved, however, and I just don't want to mess with something that is basically working at the moment.  I'll eventually do it, and I'll report back.

Thanks again,

Larry

When Rick comes back on line he may be able to sort out the problem.  If I'm correct in the assumption that something changed in one of the MC versions - maybe fixing a bug - he may know about it.

In any case - this makes me happy.  I'm working on lyrics now - 2206 are still missing - and without this capability it's hard to keep the iPod current.  I have to do a full sync every now and again.

[SwellGuy]

Larry,

Can you verify that the Date Modified for a file on the iPod and on the PC are identical - and yet they require syncing?

Rick

[lalittle]

Larry,

Can you verify that the Date Modified for a file on the iPod and on the PC are identical - and yet they require syncing?

Rick

I'll do this as soon as possible and post back.

Thanks,

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

Larry,

Can you verify that the Date Modified for a file on the iPod and on the PC are identical - and yet they require syncing?

Rick

Rick,

I'm still guessing there is something else related to a change in MC versions.  I have 2 iPods.  One was OK, the other showed 12,000+ needed to be syncronized.  I know the 2 iPods were syncronized at different times, probably with different MC versions, but they were not 12,000 changes part.  After the full sync of the second iPod, it started working just fine.  In part I wish I had checked the details on the 2nd iPod to track it down, but it's too late now.

Randy

[lalittle]

Larry,

Can you verify that the Date Modified for a file on the iPod and on the PC are identical - and yet they require syncing?

Rick

My initial checks show that the "Date Modified" field for the files on the iPod is blank.  The "Date Created" is the same, the "Date Imported" is different, but the "Date Modified" is blank on the iPod.

UPDATE:  On further investigation, I've discovered that the files that have been synched recently DO show as "On Device," and that these files (unlike the files that were synched earlier) DO have a date in the "Date Modified" field, and that it does in fact match the "Date Modified" on the original file.  In other words, it IS working for files that have been synched recently -- MC does NOT consider these files as needing to be re-synched.

I am confused at this point why my earlier investigation indicated that ALL files needed to be synched.  It seemed clear at the time that NONE of the songs were listed as "On Device," but perhaps I made an error -- there's no way to tell at this point.  Regardless of this, I can say at this point is that it only fails with files that were synched a while back, and this is because the "Date Modified" field is missing from these files on the iPod.

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

My initial checks show that the "Date Modified" field for the files on the iPod is blank.  The "Date Created" is the same, the "Date Imported" is different, but the "Date Modified" is blank on the iPod.

UPDATE:  On further investigation, I've discovered that the files that have been synched recently DO show as "On Device," and that these files (unlike the files that were synched earlier) DO have a date in the "Date Modified" field, and that it does in fact match the "Date Modified" on the original file.  In other words, it IS working for files that have been synched recently -- MC does NOT consider these files as needing to be re-synched.

I am confused at this point why my earlier investigation indicated that ALL files needed to be synched.  It seemed clear at the time that NONE of the songs were listed as "On Device," but perhaps I made an error -- there's no way to tell at this point.  Regardless of this, I can say at this point is that it only fails with files that were synched a while back, and this is because the "Date Modified" field is missing from these files on the iPod.

Larry

Larry & Rick,

This is consistent with my guess - a recent MC bug fix changed what is being updated on the iPod.  There was a sync fix provided awhile back.  A full resync should cure this.

My guess is that the change was in either:

11.1.192 (8/11/2006) 1. Fixed: Several iPod database corruption problems.
-or-
11.1.194 (8/16/2006) 1. Fixed: File ordering inside albums on an iPod could show up alphabetical instead of in disc # / track # order.

Randy

[BartMan01]

On a side note, 7.5 hours sounds awfully long to me.

7.5 hours is NOTHING.  It takes mine a lot longer than that to do a full sync (60 GB iPod with 8-9000 files).  This is why those of us that use lossless on the PC are so desperate for a good solution that allows us to keep multiple versions of files in various formats (lossless for PC and one or more lossy versions for different portables).

Back on topic - is there a list of fields that can be used for this sync logic?
I have issues where files don't sync when I do the following:
Add/change album art.
Add/change lyrics.
Add/change audio analysis.

[SwellGuy]

There is a workaround discussed earlier in this thread that will catch all of those changes. Give it a try - we're still kicking the tires on it a bit...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=35525.msg242721#msg242721

[BartMan01]

There is a workaround discussed earlier in this thread that will catch all of those changes. Give it a try - we're still kicking the tires on it a bit...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=35525.msg242721#msg242721

I saw that, and will probably give it a try next week (about to leave town for a couple of days).

What I was asking is what fields (other than [Date Modified]) can be used as triggers?  I am assuming that the fields would need to exist on both the iPod DB and the MC DB.

[SwellGuy]

Date Modified will catch any tag changes - so changes to any fields that are stored as tags will trigger a change notice regardless of whether or not the tag is exposed by the iPod. I would have to do some digging to see what other fields would work with MC and the iPod.

[lalittle]

7.5 hours is NOTHING.  It takes mine a lot longer than that to do a full sync (60 GB iPod with 8-9000 files).  This is why those of us that use lossless on the PC are so desperate for a good solution that allows us to keep multiple versions of files in various formats (lossless for PC and one or more lossy versions for different portables).

7.5 hours is not long if you need conversion, but I "think" Randy was just synching mp3s (although I'm not sure about this now) and didn't need any conversion, in which case this struck me as a long sync time.  In the end, however, it only took him 5 hours.

Larry

[Magic_Randy]

7.5 hours is not long if you need conversion, but I "think" Randy was just synching mp3s (although I'm not sure about this now) and didn't need any conversion, in which case this struck me as a long sync time.  In the end, however, it only took him 5 hours.

Larry

Larry,

You are correct - I'm doing MP3s only.

Randy

[Magic_Randy]

Rick – a quick question, when I do my next upgrade of MC (e.g. from 11.1.196 to 11.1.197) will this workaround go away?  Of course I could redo it if it’s gone, I’m just wondering.

Rick

The answer is - the workaround has to be re-applied.

At least this is what I had to do when upgrading to 11.1.198.

Can you be make this the default or an option?

Randy

[SwellGuy]

Sorry I missed that question. The workaround will have to be reapplied every time you upgrade and every time you run check for updates and it updates your PDT file. We're still discussing how we want to implement the workaround.