Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[molarman]

As I understand it, the new 2nd generation nanos require the updater found integral to iTunes 7.0.  Furthermore, the updater is not available by itself.  As I am not wanting to install iTunes on my PC (since I prefer MC) this creates a dilemma.  What is the official recommendation?

[olarte]

  Ditto here, same goes for the 5th gen ipods.

is the 1.2 update worth it?
does it conflict with MC to begin with, and
will Itunes screw up the album art as usual...

[Magic_Randy]

Anyone have any experience with iTunes 7 and only getting the iPod updater as part of the iTunes bundle?

I don’t like iTunes on my PC – it does too many things – tries to control too much – therefore conflicts with other software.

Before Apple started providing the updater separately I used to install everything and then un-install iTunes.  I even found problems with this approach.  On one version of iTunes if you did the uninstall you no longer had access to your CD/DVD drive (depending on how many driver letters, etc.).  In other works, Apple is not a Windows OS expert – they come from their own world.

Does iTunes 7 work side by side with MC?

Randy

[Magic_Randy]

I'm trying it now.

I wanted to find the updater within iTunes 7.  It does not appear to be a seperate program.

Upon connecting my iPod - iTunes launched & it has been updating something for the past 30 minutes.

This is why I hate iTunes - 

If this is the way of the future, my next iPod (I've purchased 6 so far) will not be an iPod.  I'll buy someone else's product instead of Apple's.

[molarman]

Yeah,  I thought that if the executable merely installed both iTunes and the updater together, it might be possible to uninstall iTunes (while keeping the updater).  However, the way it was explained to me made it sound as if this is not possible - so I did not even try.  iTunes tends to want to take over any interaction wth media files, so I'd rather not have it on my PC.  I have quite a few older PC's lying around the garage, unused, so I may just dedicate one of those to iTunes, making the updater accessible.

Sheesh, what a hassle.

[NoCodeUK]

I am not sure why you have problems.  I have always had iTunes and MC installed side by side including now having version 7.  ITunes has never taken over any files, it has never done anythng automatically and has never given MC any problems...  Just make sure that before you do anything and import any files to it you turn off all the auto features in the options.  This is the same for installing any other audio software.  All players try and take control of respective file types.  So long as you do a custom install and tell them not too there are no problems. As for iTunes initailly trying to update things on startup all it actually does is update its own library.  MC does this when its library format has ben updated too.  iTunes really isn't that sinister

Adam

[Magic_Randy]

I am not sure why you have problems.  I have always had iTunes and MC installed side by side including now having version 7.  ITunes has never taken over any files, it has never done anythng automatically and has never given MC any problems...  Just make sure that before you do anything and import any files to it you turn off all the auto features in the options.  This is the same for installing any other audio software.  All players try and take control of respective file types.  So long as you do a custom install and tell them not too there are no problems. As for iTunes initailly trying to update things on startup all it actually does is update its own library.  MC does this when its library format has ben updated too.  iTunes really isn't that sinister

Adam

I just installed iTunes 7.  I turned off all options that could be turned off during the installation process.  The main one at this step is make iTunes the default media player.

From there I plug in an iPod.  iTunes then does a step called “Updating Library on iPod”. This step takes about 1 hour.   ?

It then asks me to name the iPod and gives me the option to turn off more features.  After turning everything off, iTunes then does a step called “determining gapless playback information”. This step is for each track and takes a couple of hours. ?

I can then go to the step of checking for system software updates in the summary screen.  This is also where I can turn off another device specific option (open iTunes when this iPod is connected).

So if all of these steps are required before you can even turn the options all off, taking about 3-4 hours per iPod, I would call that intrusive and unacceptable.

If you have multiple iPods, all this starts again with the next iPod.

After all this, you still have to go to some startup manager software and turn off the iTunesHelper Module.

Unacceptable - especially when all I want to do is keep current with th iPod software - I don't need iTunes for that.

Randy

[BartMan01]

Unacceptable - especially when all I want to do is keep current with th iPod software - I don't need iTunes for that.

Randy

You are not the only one.  Just did a quick Google search and found lots of posts of people complaining about the bloatware that IT7 has become.  Quite a few people downgrading to 6.  That being said, I just installed IT7 to check it out and it only took about 10 minutes to update the library (60 GB iPod w/ ~40GB used by ~8000 files).  Also never got the 'gapless playback' step on mine.  So for me it was just a 10 minute process and not the 3-4 hour process that you had.

I agree with NoCodeUK - never had a problem with iTunes "taking over" my machine.  ALL music management software (Including MC) defaults to taking control of at least some of your media files.  If you don't want that to happen you just have to pay attention during the install.  These days it is almost critical to always do a custom install given the 'helper apps' and toolbars that everyone seems to want to 'give' you.

[Magic_Randy]

When I installed iTunes 7 it was not an upgrade - I did not have 6 on the PC.  I'm sure that is part of the the reason why this was so painful for me - but I still prefer a seperate updater. 

Apple, I think, is trying to force people to have iTunes on their PC - they make the real money from the on-line media sales, not from the hardware.

[BartMan01]

One thing that will be an issue:

Open iPod with iTunes 7 for the first time and wait for it to 'update library'.
Open iPod with MC and about 50 of my files now want to be resynced due to the 'update library'.
Open iPod with iTuens 7 again after an MC sync and it has to do the whole 'update library' again.  This is a pain if it takes a few minutes, but a problem if it takes an hour for you.

[Magic_Randy]

One thing that will be an issue:

Open iPod with iTunes 7 for the first time and wait for it to 'update library'.
Open iPod with MC and about 50 of my files now want to be resynced due to the 'update library'.
Open iPod with iTuens 7 again after an MC sync and it has to do the whole 'update library' again.  This is a pain if it takes a few minutes, but a problem if it takes an hour for you.

You are correct - alot on the web regarding iTunes 7. 

I'm going to test through the senerio you described.
It rebuilt the library - which was your third point.  I don't know what iTunes is doing that get's wiped out by MC, but there must be something.

Currently I'm waiting for the gapless playback indexing to complete - I've done this on another iPod, but not the one I'm using for testing now - this takes a couple fo hours.

BTW - 'gapless playback' eliminates pauses between two consecutive songs on an album, allowing for smooth transitions between songs.  in Itunes 7 the new 'gapless playback' feature requires the software to index the user's entire music collection.

[Magic_Randy]

One thing that will be an issue:

Open iPod with iTunes 7 for the first time and wait for it to 'update library'.
Open iPod with MC and about 50 of my files now want to be resynced due to the 'update library'.
Open iPod with iTuens 7 again after an MC sync and it has to do the whole 'update library' again.  This is a pain if it takes a few minutes, but a problem if it takes an hour for you.

OK, I tested everything.

To start with, the iPod is fully sync’d with MC.

The library is fully updated in iTunes.

I go to MC – I do not see the problem you referenced – it is still 100% in sync.

I go to iTunes – nothing required (e.g. it is not updating library)

I go to MC – change 16 tracks to force a sync – do the sync

Go back to iTunes – it Updates library from scratch

Go back to MC – still fully sync’d

Still a very heavy setup if all you need iTunes for is updating the system software.

[BartMan01]

On mine there are 47 tracks (46 podcasts and one music track) that show in MC as 'Delete On Sync' and 'In Queue' after iTunes gets done with 'updating' the iPod database.  They seem to be the same tracks every time, but there is nothing special about them compared to the other tracks on the device (that I can see).

[Magic_Randy]

On mine there are 47 tracks (46 podcasts and one music track) that show in MC as 'Delete On Sync' and 'In Queue' after iTunes gets done with 'updating' the iPod database.  They seem to be the same tracks every time, but there is nothing special about them compared to the other tracks on the device (that I can see).

I do not have any podcasts, which is where most of your changes are coming from.  Do you some podcasts that do not have to be sync'd or is this 100% of your podcasts?

As for the music track, maybe there is something funny about that track.  I tried everything with 2 different iPods.  MC is always fine and stays 100% in sync.  BTW - I have over 13,000 tracks on my iPods. 

Randy

[BartMan01]

Do you some podcasts that do not have to be sync'd or is this 100% of your podcasts?

It's not all of them.  I have just over 100 files at the moment, but only 46 of them are 'problems'.

[SwellGuy]

Do the Ratings or Composer fields differ among MC/iTunes/iPod?

[BartMan01]

Do the Ratings or Composer fields differ among MC/iTunes/iPod?

I have a handfull of items that I put in iTunes just to see how v7 handled ratings (still a DB only field).  My iTunes setting for syncing is 'manual sync' and none of the files are the 'problem' files.  The problem was also happening when I had an empty iTunes DB.

[Magic_Randy]

I've done more testing here.  iTunes always wants to update the library, but MC never requires a sync that is not really needed.  This is also with multiple iPods.

[BartMan01]

Did some more digging and those files tags did not match the MC database.

The iTunes 'update' changed the iPod database to match the file tags, then MC didn't see it as the same file since the db now differed from the library.  Did an update tags from library and now MC no longer wants to sync after iTunes 'fixes' things. 

iTunes only wants to 'update' after MC has written to the db, so they must be putting something new in there that MC doesn't emulate yet.

[molarman]

As I said, I would rather not have iTunes on the same PC as MC.

[lalittle]

I also do NOT want iTunes on the system -- I've just read too many horror stories from people that had their media libraries messed up by iTunes, and I don't like the way Apple keeps trying to bully us into using their software.  Is the ONLY recourse to go to an Apple store and have THEM do the update there?

Thanks,

Larry

[slipknot]

Currently I'm waiting for the gapless playback indexing to complete - I've done this on another iPod, but not the one I'm using for testing now - this takes a couple fo hours.

BTW - 'gapless playback' eliminates pauses between two consecutive songs on an album, allowing for smooth transitions between songs.  in Itunes 7 the new 'gapless playback' feature requires the software to index the user's entire music collection.

PLEASE let us know if gapless playback works for new music copied from MC to the ipod.  Thanks.

[ForsakenArdor]

My old computer broke and I just got a brand new computer and bought MC12 and my 60GB iPod Photo broke, so I also got a brand new 5.5G 80GB iPod Video and, as my old computer ran Windows98, I have zero experience with iTunes, and judging from everyone else's experience, I have no desire to use it at all.  I've used my new iPod with MC12 and I can confirm that gapless playback works right out of the box.  I've tested using mp3s of live concerts, and I even rip as one big file and cut out bits for little pieces between songs so the songs are more iPod-friendly and also so I can listen to a whole show if I wanted to.  It sounds seamless.  Even at parts where it seemed like it didn't sound seamless, I question my audio files instead of the iPod.  Although I still have this occassional problem that existed on my 4g iPod Photo where a song played for two seconds, hung for another 2 seconds, then played as normally.  That's really annoying.  It didn't happen with my first few days of use, but it happened today.  Also, firewire does not work anymore.  I tried using my old 3g dock as usual with the firewire connection and the screen said something like, "Firewire not supported.  Please use the cable supplied with your iPod."

[lalittle]

I've used my new iPod with MC12 and I can confirm that gapless playback works right out of the box.

It's already been confirmed by other users (inlcuding myself) that gapless playback does NOT work when transferring songs with MC12.  The "gap" is eliminated, but a small piece of the song is ALSO eliminated, and sometimes a pop is heard.  This apparently does not happen when transferring with iTunes.  With MC12, it's "nearly" gapless, but if you listen to a transition where the beat continues across the seam, you'll see that it "jumps" a bit.

I tried using my old 3g dock as usual with the firewire connection and the screen said something like, "Firewire not supported.  Please use the cable supplied with your iPod."

The newer iPods do not support firewire -- they are USB2 only.

Larry