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[raym]

A strange issue with OTTO:

If I ask him to monitor three or more NETWORK folders, this breaks OTTO's ability to AUTO-detect external changes. Two or less folders are fine. Three or more local watch folders is also ok. If I run auto-import manually or restart MC to force this, changes are detected as expected. It's the "real-time" monitoring which breaks.

A symptom of the problem is exhibited in the introduction of constant network utilization (only about 1-3% on my systems). As soon as I remove any 1 of the 3 network folders from OTTO's list, this stops and Auto-Import resumes as normal.

In addition to this, I've discovered some other odd behaviour:

If I do run the auto-import task manually, regardless of how often I do it, it always reports the following even though nothing has changed:

"Updated 31 files that had external changes."

The 31 files it's referring to always appear to be the same. A bunch of dvr-ms and vob files. But they are old and definately unchanged.

The auto-import thing is the main problem for me though.

Thankyou.

[Matt]

I can't reproduce this.

Otto waits for 20 seconds of inactivity (max 5 minutes) in watch folders before reconciling changes.

Ensure "Run auto-import in background" is checked.

Also, make sure the file types you're adding to the test folder are selected for that watch folder.

Thanks.

[raym]

Hi Matt. I've done all of the above. I've since rebooted, reinstalled MC and started from scratch. I started with one watch folder and then prgressed to three from there and sure enough, things broke once I added the 3rd one  .

Thankyou.

[Matt]

I'm still having trouble reproducing this.

I don't know if it's because one watch is a network folder, or because of the dvr type, or because there are two folders, or some other reason.

Perhaps you could try a simple test with two folders on the same local drive.  Also, try MP3 only to start.

Then add complexity. (network folders, dvr types, etc.)

Thanks for all the help.

[raym]

Hi Matt. Ok, after about a week of investigating this I've finally worked out what the problem is. I've changed the title of the thread to better reflect the issue and I've updated the detail of the problem in the first post.

Please take a look. I hope this makes it easier for you to replicate.

Thanks.

[glynor]

I'm not exactly clear on what is not working for you, but I'm interested...

I have:

1) Way more than 3 network folders watched by Otto.

2) Files which seem to be constantly showing up as having external changes (BeyondTV's recording MPEG-2 files, but these are regular old Mpeg-2 Program Stream DVD-Ready files).

EDIT: I just ran a Check Folders Now routine twice in a row (as soon as one finished and I clicked OK, I started the next).  It found 25 external changes both times.  The changed files listed in the log are local files (on my BeyondTV recording drive on my HTPC).

3) Otto seems to behave slowly.  I find I often have to run the "Check Folders Now" task when new media has been moved remotely into a watched folder (or restart MC) to get the new files to show up.  I've never timed it but it certainly seems I've waited a lot more than 5 minutes.

[raym]

Hi Glynor, sounds like you are experiencing the exact same thing as me! <<raym does the "so-glad-it's-not-just-me" dance of joy>>

Ie,

...I find I often have to run the "Check Folders Now" task when new media has been moved remotely into a watched folder (or restart MC) to get the new files to show up.  I've never timed it but it certainly seems I've waited a lot more than 5 minutes.

Exactly! Try winding down the number of network folders to 1 and make an external change to this folder. OTTO will kick in within 20 seconds of you making that external change. This is how it's meant to be!!.

NOTE> As you've also observed... "Check Folders Now" or re-starting MC will ALWAYS work. What this thread is about is OTTO's inability to AUTOMATICALLY detect external changes as they happen on more than 2 networked watch-folders.  Mutiple LOCAL watch folders are OK.

Files which seem to be constantly showing up as having external changes

Yep, as stated in my original post also.

[evsol]

I have exactly 3 network folders (on 2 different machines) and haven't experienced any issues with Otto. I have 1 watched local folder. Within 5 minutes, a new album will be recognized..usually in under a minute or so (haven't timed it out yet  )


Here is my setup (note the new build, but this hasn't changed since Otto was introduced)...I don't know what might be different in my setup.

My Otto setup has all three boxes checked and Fix broken links: Yes

I know I am not experiencing this problem...I also have a Gigabit network (one of the machines is on 10/100 though, but still goes through the GbE switch)

Media Center Registered 12.0.106 -- f:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

5.2 Service Pack 1 (Build 3790)
AMD Unknown 2000 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 2096 MB, Free - 1090 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.3790.1830 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.3790 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.3790 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.3790 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping /   Drive D:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Drive E:   Mode:Normal  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
  Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: Yes /  Copy volume: 32767
  Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No 

Burning /  Drive D: TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S182M   Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:48  MaxSpeed:48  BurnProof:Yes
  Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: Yes
  Use playback settings: No /

Portable Device Info
  Removed devices:

[raym]

I have exactly 3 network folders (on 2 different machines) and haven't experienced any issues with Otto. I have 1 watched local folder. Within 5 minutes, a new album will be recognized..usually in under a minute or so (haven't timed it out yet  )

Thanks for your feedback. I am on a 10/100 lan tho I doubt this is the issue. I also have the same check boxes set as you.

I really don't know. All I know is it ain't working if I add a third network drive. By the sounds of Glynor's post, it would appear I'm at least not the only one.

[glynor]

Just to address the network speed thing, I'm on a Gigabit network which has undergone some serious speed and reliability testing (due to a problem I was having a while back).  I did a bit more investigating last night...

I am certainly experiencing this issue, even if most of the watched folders are local drives (less than 3 on network drives).  I currently have 10 or 11 folders watched on my HTPC (I'm at work and I'm not sure about 1 of them), and one additional subfolder "excluded".  Of these, only 2 are on the network right now, as I moved my "media repository" RAID5 volume into the HTPC box itself a few months back.

This issue certainly seems to occur even on the HTPC, and even relating to media which resides on the local drives.  There is a network access component though... I mainly have Otto fail to "see" new files when I copy them onto the RAID volume from another computer.  This is the most common way that I "obtain" new files onto my media repository.  I record them with BeyondTV (or other methods) onto a local drive on my HTPC (drive T), move them via the network over to a non-watched "work drive" on my video editing workstation.  Trim, edit, and compress to MPEG-4.  Then I move the finished AVI, MP4, or MKV file back over the network to my RAID media drive (drive M).

These files, the "new" files coming in from my editing workstation, are the ones that fail to show up.  Again, I admit, I have not yet been able to test it thoroughly but I generally need to either restart MC or manually run the import scan to get these new files to appear.  As I mentioned earlier,  I have not absolutely made sure I waited more than 5 minutes (I remember walking away from the HTPC for a "while" to see if it would import, and it didn't, but I didn't look at a watch).

I will try my darnedest to test with a stopwatch this weekend and post back.   

That said, I am certainly seeing the "constantly changed files" thing that raym reported, and it doesn't seem (for me at least) to be related to having more than 1 network drive folder watched.

[raym]

Hi Matt.

I'm still having loads of problems with this. Any luck reproducing the problem based on my revised findings in the first post?

Thankyou.

[raym]

Well, since I've not really had a great deal of feedback on this and it's absolutely driving me insane, I decided to get busy on a work-around.

Instead of trying to get Auto-Import watching and managing these multiple shared network folders, Ive opted for just one and thrown all the other shared folders under this. Therefore, Auto-Import is only really configured to watch this single share and this means external changes get detected pretty much as they happen - which is all I've ever wanted!! It's not elegant but it works.

I'm still convinced that there's definately a bug there with Auto-Import and multiple network shares even if no one else has reported it. It could be my configuration but I've honestly tried everything. Anyway, thought I'd post so that if others do end up experiencing this issue, there is a way around it.

Thanks.

[glynor]

I've reported it too!  I just can't help much, and it stinks.   

That "way around" only works if all the folders can be moved to the same root directory.  That's not possible when they're spread around on 3-4 different machines.

[Matt]

We still haven't been able to reproduce the issue.

Part of the trouble is that we're not sure if it's because of the network, the multiple watches, or what.  Any other clues would be appreciated.

Also, if a folder in a watch is continually changing, MC will try to wait for it to settle down before analyzing.  It'll wait up to 5 minutes, so this could also explain the issue.

[glynor]

I'll time it this weekend (I know I said I would last weekend, but I didn't get there), and post back with details.

I'm about as sure that I've waited more than 5 minutes as I can be without a stopwatch.  As I posted above, on my HTPC system most of the watched folders are local (only one is network, though it's a biggie).  I do have a whole bunch of folders watched though...

[Matt]

If a folder couldn't be watched (missing or some other problem), it threw Otto into a funk.

Next build will handle this better.  It also adds logging to show when and what is happening.

With the next build, check for log type "Import" and "CWatchFoldersThread::Thread" messages.  They should log anytime a change is detected, or if a folder fails to watch.

[glynor]

Awesome!  Thanks for looking at this.  I'll play with it tomorrow (it's a holiday and I actually have the day off), and post back with any results and findings.

[glynor]

Well... I meant to post back and now I will.

The new builds definitely solved my "failed to import" problem.  I still have the odd external changes thing with those MPEG-2 BeyondTV files, but that's no huge deal to me.  Those are really only temporary files anyway until I watch/delete them or trim/compress them.

My guess is that the Otto funk bug mentioned above was the culprit.

Thinking about Otto in a funk (like with the velvet and the hats and the aliens and the capes and stuff) is hysterical though.  I don't know... I picture Otto as a Polka dancer with pint for him and a pint for you.

...elephant stepped on my foot...

I think it's time for bed.   

[raym]

The new builds definitely solved my "failed to import" problem.  .....
......My guess is that the Otto funk bug mentioned above was the culprit.

Ditto. Thank you Matt.

....I still have the odd external changes thing with those MPEG-2 BeyondTV files, but that's no huge deal to me. 

Yes this is still happening for me also. And no, it's not a big deal but it does add an extra 10 seconds or so to the whole auto import checking process.

Thanks.

[raym]

...actually, I just want to add 1 thing.... OTTO is AWESOME!. Since this bug's been sorted, changes made on my media server are getting picked up on my HTPC's more-or-less instantly. No more manually synching libraries.

Brilliant! Great job guys!!