Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[prod]

i'd like to see an option in the podcast category that tells MC whether or not to automatically analy[s|z]e the audio podcast once it's been downloaded. i know this has been discussed a little at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=34827.0 but it seems to be more to do with automatically analysing imported files - which i believe is a different issue. podcasts are downloaded behind the scenes and turn up in the library at a hugely lesser rate than importing a bunch of files. when i'm importing, it's become habit to analyse the files straight afterwards, however usually podcasts come in when i'm not paying attention, making it a little more difficult to remember.

it's been suggested that it's best to manually click to download then you remember to analyse afterwards, but that process doesn't necessarily work with inconsistent and slow internet connections, or large podcasts (you may have to wait around quite a while for the file to come in).

it'd be a huge help - occasionally i forget to analyse and nearly burst my eardrums. one time i almost fell off the treadmill trying to rip my headphones out!

[Alex B]

MC is really missing the option for setting a manual gain for unanalyzed files. MJ8 was possibly the first player that had a replay gain system, but other programs that came a bit later have always had a volume lever for unanalyzed files (e.g. Winamp with RG aware input plugins and foobar2000).

Sometimes it is not practical to analyze all files before playback, like files that are not meant to be permanently included in the library. Also, if the preferred and used mode is Album Gain an occasional single track that is outside of any album plays without correction even if the track is already analyzed.

JRiver, please consider this:

There's an ongoing replay gain topic in the main MC forum.

MC doesn't have a playback gain adjustment for unanalyzed files (e.g. podcast, internet radio, CD audio).

Some other programs have it like this:




MC should work like this:

- Use Album Gain or Track Gain according to the selected option (the current behavior).

- If Album Gain is selected but unavailable with a certain file use the Track Gain info for this file. (I.e. when the file is analyzed, but does not belong to an album). If the next file has Album Gain info return to the album mode.

- If both RG values are unavailable with a certain file use the user adjustable "Without RG info" value.

I suppose a manual gain adjustment for files without replay gain info would be relatively easy to add.

[prod]

yes that would be nice, tho i expect this wouldn't have any effect in levelling the volume on external devices like an ipod, which is kinda what i was talking about.

plus, tho a little OT, all that audiophile stuff gets a little bit in the way of intuitive configuration & use, which appears to be MC's major criticism in professional reviews. most people aren't aware of what clipping, RG, dB, peak, etc are or if they know of the terms what it really means or how to use it. i'd say that right click>library tools>analyze audio then click apply replay gain in the DSP studio was too convoluted for a lot of people. it's a move forward, albeit slight, in MC12 to call it volume levelling. i always recommend MC to my friends, family and colleagues but in the back of my mind know it means work for me to set it up for them and teach them how to use it properly.

[Alex B]

AFAIK, "Volume Levelling" is off by default. MC works like any other simple player then.

You may want to try the "Automatic based on the current playlist" adjustment option. It helps a lot when possibly unanalyzed files from various sources are played together with analyzed library files.

[prod]

can i bring your attention back to my original post?

it'd be a huge help - occasionally i forget to analyse and nearly burst my eardrums. one time i almost fell off the treadmill trying to rip my headphones out!

i don't take my desktop or laptop to the gym with me - i take my ipod. for the ipod to play with volumes levelled i need to analyse the audio. with podcasts this is easy to forget - stuff ends up on the ipod without me even knowing it, because MC has downloaded a new episode and sync'd it across (which is great and exactly what i want it to do). however, it would be spankingly fantastic if MC had analysed the podcast for me as well, cos it would avoid situation above.

thanks for the response though alex i feel we somehow got to crossed purposes there.

[Alex B]

i'd like to see an option in the podcast category that tells MC whether or not to automatically analy[s|z]e the audio podcast once it's been downloaded. i know this has been discussed a little at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=34827.0 but it seems to be more to do with automatically analysing imported files - which i believe is a different issue. podcasts are downloaded behind the scenes and turn up in the library at a hugely lesser rate than importing a bunch of files. when i'm importing, it's become habit to analyse the files straight afterwards, however usually podcasts come in when i'm not paying attention, making it a little more difficult to remember.

it's been suggested that it's best to manually click to download then you remember to analyse afterwards, but that process doesn't necessarily work with inconsistent and slow internet connections, or large podcasts (you may have to wait around quite a while for the file to come in).

it'd be a huge help - occasionally i forget to analyse and nearly burst my eardrums. one time i almost fell off the treadmill trying to rip my headphones out!

Sorry, since you didn't mention "iPod" in this post I thought you were speaking about MC playback.

Edit

"yes that would be nice, tho i expect this wouldn't have any effect in levelling the volume on external devices like an ipod, which is kinda what i was talking about."
-- also, I thought that by this you meant playing unanalyzed files with MC (through PC's audio output) from any external storage device like a portable.

[Alex B]

Automatic analyzing for podcasts would be fine.

However, if the podcasts are in AAC format (e.g. m4a) and MC uses QT for decoding (i.e. MC does not use separately installed DirectShow filters for decoding) analyzing would not be possible. I download regularly only one podcast feed and it happens to be in m4a format.

[Matt]

MC is really missing the option for setting a manual gain for unanalyzed files. MJ8 was possibly the first player that had a replay gain system, but other programs that came a bit later have always had a volume lever for unanalyzed files (e.g. Winamp with RG aware input plugins and foobar2000).

We're not opposed to this.

However, our existing solution is fairly elegant in my opinion.  Unanalyzed files use the average replay gain of the analyzed files in the playlist.  On balance, this should be a better estimate than a user-slider without requiring extra UI complexity.  Do you disagree with this reasoning?

[Alex B]

We're not opposed to this.

However, our existing solution is fairly elegant in my opinion.  Unanalyzed files use the average replay gain of the analyzed files in the playlist.  On balance, this should be a better estimate than a user-slider without requiring extra UI complexity.  Do you disagree with this reasoning?

It seems that I still learn something new all the time. I wasn't aware of that.

I use the "automatic based on current playlist" adjustment, which usually increases the volume quite a bit from the "none" setting. I have assumed that the difference with unanalyzed files was small because of this.

I think I need to experiment a bit and try how this affects the volume level with quiet and loud tracks.

Does MC use the same system if Album Gain is selected and a track is not from any album and shows only the track gain value?

[prod]

Sorry, since you didn't mention "iPod" in this post I thought you were speaking about MC playback.

no problem - i suppose i was being implicit - i still think of podcasts as being mostly for use on handhelds, i.e. pulling something off the net and taking it somewhere else where maybe the net is inaccessible, e.g. train, car, work etc.

However, if the podcasts are in AAC format (e.g. m4a) and MC uses QT for decoding (i.e. MC does not use separately installed DirectShow filters for decoding) analyzing would not be possible. I download regularly only one podcast feed and it happens to be in m4a format.

i don't understand what you're getting at - are you saying this is an impossible request because some people have AAC podcasts?

However, our existing solution is fairly elegant in my opinion.  Unanalyzed files use the average replay gain of the analyzed files in the playlist.  On balance, this should be a better estimate than a user-slider without requiring extra UI complexity.  Do you disagree with this reasoning?

tho this probably wasn't directed at me and it doesn't have anything to do with why i posted the original topic - but what if there's only one file in the playlist - and by playlist do you mean playing now? or do you mean an instance of sending files to playing now?

[Alex B]

I don't understand what you're getting at - are you saying this is an impossible request because some people have AAC podcasts?

It is just one of the things that should be taken into account when designing an automatic replay gain analyzer. For example, should MC display a warning prompt, write a log or just silently skip the files?

[Matt]

I use the "automatic based on current playlist" adjustment, which usually increases the volume quite a bit from the "none" setting.

This is the recommended setting.  It ups the gain as much as possible, while prevent any clipping in the entire playlist.

Does MC use the same system if Album Gain is selected and a track is not from any album and shows only the track gain value?

Next build, we'll change to using the "Track Gain" if the file is not on an album.  If the "Track Gain" is not filled in, it'll use the average of other files in the playlist, as mentioned before.

[prod]

It is just one of the things that should be taken into account when designing an automatic replay gain analyzer. For example, should MC display a warning prompt, write a log or just silently skip the files?

v true, any self-respecting developer knows that an automated process wouldn't (edit: shouldn't) presume a user is at the machine to interact with prompts. i also think the days of creating logs here there and everywhere (unless the user has specifically requested something be logged) are over, most people just don't care and expect it to simply "work". so that leaves silent operation - perfect!

if this just isn't feasible i suppose it doesn't matter, i'll set a non-analysed smartlist up and make sure i analyse anything in there before i do a sync to the ipod.

[BartMan01]

i also think the days of creating logs here there and everywhere (unless the user has specifically requested something be logged) are over, most people just don't care and expect it to simply "work". so that leaves silent operation - perfect!

Perfect for who?  If something DOESN'T work, I want to know about it - not just have the app merrily go along like it had no problems.  An after process log (like the import tool uses, but just showing failures and only pops up if there are failures) is really the slickest solution.  If you don't care about it, it goes away with one click.

[prod]

Perfect for who?  If something DOESN'T work, I want to know about it - not just have the app merrily go along like it had no problems.

so for instance when a podcast download fails because there's no internet connection you want a popup box? in some conditions it's just not required to log/notify, besides, all this is subjective and implementation is down to the developer - am i supposed to put a 14 page feature specification in with my post?

do you have any interest in my specific request in the original post or would you like to simply rant at someone? if the former, please contribute with something constructive, if the latter i'm not interested.

it appears to me people who haven't posted a gazillion times or have merely a star or two to their name (whatever that all means) often become a target for grief or condescension when they dare to put something forward. i'll just let you "galactic citizens" ? steam off at each other in future, what a waste of time.