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[Jaguu]

So far I maintain in some way different libraries in MC11 and MC12. Did some tagging in MC12 that is not in MC11 and viceversa. So I have all my divx videos neatly tagged in MC11 including cover art files and just left Otto to import video files to MC12 which of course was very rudimentary as tags and cover art were not transfered.

So I tackled the task to properly migrate my video files from MC11 to MC12. So far I can say: This does not seem to be possible!

First, what works:
MPL-Playlist export of video files (all tags exported to a mpl file). Created a new, empty library in MC12. Import of the mpl file into the new, empty library. All tags get properly imported. But no automatic cover art import. That means: for video files "Cover Art inside file" does not work!

What does not work:
Deleted all video files from my default library and tried to import the mpl file there. The video tags dont get imported. Only the default tags that were there by the automatic import by Otto were there! Of course, no cover art displayed, except the very old one that was taken from the video itself and which gets obviously stored inside the file!

So now, I have all neatly tagged video files in MC12 in a separate library, but cannot import them in my main library! Any suggestion on how to accomplish this rather simple task! I have to say that I cannot simply save the whole MC11 library and restore it in MC12 as there has been done a lot of image and audio tagging in MC12 that is not in MC11.

I have over 100 video files and I don't like the idea of retagging all of them and store video cover art one by one again. What can I do to import my tags from the Mpl file into my main library? This used to be possible in MC11 , but has changed in MC12!

Can J River or anybody from the forum help? Thank you!

[Matt]

It's best to restore from a library backup when moving from MC 11 to MC 12.  This should be a one time thing.

[Jaguu]

It's best to restore from a library backup when moving from MC 11 to MC 12.  This should be a one time thing.

Well, not exactly. When we start beta-testing we do not know where we are heading and do not want to compromise our hard-done tagging work. On the other hand, for beta testing purposes, we have to test the new features, and as we become more confident, we just tag in MC12, so at some point things become inconsistent. As I said in my post, a restore from a library backup of MC11, it would destroy a whole bunch of work done in MC12.

I think there should be a more selective way of migrating data and for that Mpl file were the ideal solution. I do not see the reason why a mpl import works on a new library and does not work on a mature library. It also does not allow to import information available externally to MC into the library such as information stored in Excel, Text or Csv file. This has been available from MC9 through MC10 and MC11 and one relies on such features.

I am sorry to say, but this is one of the deceiving aspects in MC development. MC is no longer a program just to play around, most of us made a strong commitment and time investment in this software and I would expect some more caution when removing features that we learned to use and well appreciate.

[glynor]

Well, not exactly. When we start beta-testing we do not know where we are heading and do not want to compromise our hard-done tagging work.

Not to be a devil's advocate, but...

If you weren't sure how the beta-testing program would work out, and you maintained a separate MC11.1 library, then why did you do any "real" tagging in MC12 and allow the libraries to get out of sync?

Quite a few of us (myself and Marko for example) who beta tested MC12 did indeed maintain separate MC12 libraries for a time in order to test the new product but not commit to using it "in production".  However, we did so with the understanding that when we did finally move over to MC12 permanently we would be throwing away the "testing" MC12 library and upgrading our real MC11.1 library.  That's just good sense and is really part of beta testing!

I'm not sure how to solve your situation, but I would say that integrating two dissimilar data sets is no easy task for JRiver to accomplish.  At my work we recently implemented a huge digital asset management system that does (on an enterprise level) basically what MC does for us (media management).  As part of this, we had to hire an outside vendor (for lots of money) to import our existing datasets from the variety of applications we were replacing.  This was no small task, because we needed them to integrate more than one dissimilar data set.

That said... If it is indeed broken, I would like the MPL functionality to be fixed as well!    

[Alex B]

Jaguu,

MPL files have never been able to update existing data. You need to delete the video files first from the library.

MC has a few hidden databases besides the main database. After you have deleted the files they may still exist in the Explorer Database, in the Playing Now database or in the Deleted Files Database. In that case MC still uses the old field data when you reimport previously deleted files using MPL playlists.

You can make the following smartlist for deleting the files for good:

~d=a [Media Type]=[Video]  (~d=a means all databases)

You may need to revisit this smartlist once or twice and if the files are still visible delete them again (the last deletion removes them from the deleted files database.)

Keep in my mind that this smartlist lists also the video files that are in the CD/DVD database. You may want to exclude this database from the search:

Make another smartlist with this rule ~d=c and exclude this playlist from the first smartlist.

After the old files are completely deleted from the databases MC imports MPL data correctly. Even the original import dates are preserved.



The cover art issue you mentioned is probably a separate bug. MC12 cannot automatically create a correct thumbnail for a video file if the linked image file is located besides the video file in the same folder. MC creates the thumbnail incorrectly from the video content.

This bug has nothing to do with importing or MC11.1. You can reproduce it if you just erase all thumbnails and let MC12 rebuild them.

This was my last bug report:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36696.msg250449#msg250449

Re: Media Center 12.0.102  « Reply #26 »

"Quote from: Matt
There must be something a little more complicated because if I specify an Image File, and then rebuild thumbs, it uses the Image File."


In the  meanwhile I tried a few things. Here's a list of my findings:

- The original library version (MC11.1 vs. MC12) is not related
- A library restore is not related
- If the image file has a complete directory path MC12 creates the thumbnails always correctly.
- If the image file is in the same folder with the video files (i.e. only the filename is linked) MC12 creates the thumbnails from the video content.

- This is rather odd:

I have a folder with 22 video files. I linked all files with an image file from the same folder. After that I erased all thumbnails. MC couldn't rebuild the thumbnails from the image file. It created them from the video content.

Then I relinked only one of the video files with a different image file from a separate folder. I didn't touch the other 21 video files. On next thumbnail rebuild attempt MC created correct thumbnails from the linked images for all 22 video files.

EDIT

Looks like the oddness happens only if the two image files have the same filename. I tried it again so that the two image files had different names. This time MC created 21 thumbnails from the video content (image in the video file folder) and only one thumbnail from the image file (image in another folder).

[Alex B]

A couple of more things:

Of course, no cover art displayed, except the very old one that was taken from the video itself and which gets obviously stored inside the file!

MC cannot tag video files or read tags from video files (- except WMV format. I have not tried if MC can store images in Windows Media video file tags)

It also does not allow to import information available externally to MC into the library such as information stored in Excel, Text or Csv file. This has been available from MC9 through MC10 and MC11 and one relies on such features.

How do you do this with MC11?

[Jaguu]

Alex,

many thanks with the hints about the different databases. I suspected something like that as the same tag infos came back again and again, but did not realize that I would need to delete more stuff other than a simple delete from library. That also explains why Mpl playlist import works with a fresh, new library. I will check it out tomorrow evening as I will be off the whole day tomororrow (it's 1am here).

Yes, I know Cover Art is another issue not related to the problem above. At present MC forces us to have the same naming convention for audio and video cover art, otherwise nothing properly works. Unfortunately, audio and video naming conventions are in my case completely different. I also noticed that wmv files preserve cover art, but not avi/divx files.

In my case I have plenty of images with image infos in  separate files, as they were exported from another database. 
In MC11 MPL playlist import was easy. I moved image files to the appropriate media/image folder. Then I had an mpl file with all the needed tag info for all the files. I had the original tag info stored in an external csv-file. It's quite easy to transform a csv-file into a mpl file (I use a tool called SearchReplace from Funduc which allows to build search-replace scripts). So, as a final step, I just imported the mpl file and voilą -  all the tags were in their proper place (the exact pathname of the file had to be defined in the mpl file).

Here is a sample of a single file (saved as import.mpl in UTF8 format):

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?>
<MPL Version="2.0">
  <Item>
    <Field Name="Genre">Arts</Field>
    <Field Name="Source ID">Rembrandt-001</Field>
    <Field Name="Period">Baroque</Field>
    <Field Name="Artist">Rembrandt</Field>
    <Field Name="Name">Tobit and Anna.</Field> 
    <Field Name="PaintYear">1626</Field>
    <Field Name="PaintStyle">Oil on panel</Field>
    <Field Name="PaintSize">120 x 80 cm</Field>   
    <Field Name="Gallery">Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam</Field>
    <Field Name="Country">Netherlands</Field>
    <Field Name="Filename">D:\Media\Image\Arts\Rembrandt\Rembrandt-001.jpg</Field>
  </Item>
</Mpl>


I think the difference between MC11 and MC12 is that import information was not hidden and preserved in other library databases in MC11, so if there was a mistake, you simply deleted the files from the library and imported the mpl file again.

[Jaguu]

Alex,

Thanks again for your advice. I tested it and it works flawlessly. One only has to know how to..., things in MC are not always very obvious. I even added to delete playlists on all levels, so you do not have to rename them again and again to import them. Works also very well.

J River,

some more flexibility in dealing with audio/video cover art would be most welcome; separate folders for video and audio and separate naming convention as the "artist - album" naming convention for audio does not make much sense for video.

[Matt]

MC 12 tracks external playlists just like files, and doesn't import them again unless the playlist changes.

This was an important change because v11 would re-analyze playlists over-and-over on import. (which is messy and slow)

Maybe it should "force" a reanalyze of a plylist in certain cases, although I'm not sure what they'd be.  We're happy to listen to proposals.

[Alex B]

"It also does not allow to import information available externally to MC into the library such as information stored in Excel, Text or Csv file. This has been available from MC9 through MC10 and MC11 and one relies on such features."

How do you do this with MC11?

Here is a sample of a single file (saved as import.mpl in UTF8 format):

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?>
<MPL Version="2.0">
  <Item>
    <Field Name="Genre">Arts</Field>
    <Field Name="Source ID">Rembrandt-001</Field>
    <Field Name="Period">Baroque</Field>
    <Field Name="Artist">Rembrandt</Field>
    <Field Name="Name">Tobit and Anna.</Field> 
    <Field Name="PaintYear">1626</Field>
    <Field Name="PaintStyle">Oil on panel</Field>
    <Field Name="PaintSize">120 x 80 cm</Field>   
    <Field Name="Gallery">Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam</Field>
    <Field Name="Country">Netherlands</Field>
    <Field Name="Filename">D:\Media\Image\Arts\Rembrandt\Rembrandt-001.jpg</Field>
  </Item>
</Mpl>

So you converted the data in MC's xml format and imported after that. I understand better now.

I think the difference between MC11 and MC12 is that import information was not hidden and preserved in other library databases in MC11, so if there was a mistake, you simply deleted the files from the library and imported the mpl file again.

The same hidden databases were in MC11. You may want to search the MC11 forum for "Deleted files database". We had a couple of interesting discussions.

MC 12 tracks external playlists just like files, and doesn't import them again unless the playlist changes.

This was an important change because v11 would re-analyze playlists over-and-over on import. (which is messy and slow)

Maybe it should "force" a reanalyze of a plylist in certain cases, although I'm not sure what they'd be.  We're happy to listen to proposals.

Jaguu and I have been after for some kind of optional merge feature.

We are just interested of merging partial library data with another library.

The "playlist" itself is irrelevant as a playlist. In this case the MPL file is used only as a data carrier. Also, we are not going to let Otto handle these operations.

If the listed files are already present in the library MC should blindly accept the data and replace the field contents. MC should bypass all analyzing and simply merge the field data from MPL.

MC should do the usual full import process only if a media file is not already present in the library.


Some programs allow copy pasting all library tags from a bunch of files to another similar selection. Something like this would possibly help if the clipboard contents could be saved to a file.

[Jaguu]

Alex wrote that building of thumbnails for video files does not work properly.

In my case I set cover art to be found in "specific folder", where I have cover art images in the format [Artist] - [Album] ([Artist] sometimes empty, so only - [Album]. When I try to do a "Quick find in File / Cover Art Directory" nothing happens, or better the internal thumbnail from the video remains there.

The only way to add proper cover art to a video file is doing it one by one, which is not the way to go when having more than 100 videos.

In Tag Window the "Image File" field is remains empty when I do a "Quick find"

[Jaguu]

MC 12 tracks external playlists just like files, and doesn't import them again unless the playlist changes.

This was an important change because v11 would re-analyze playlists over-and-over on import. (which is messy and slow)

Maybe it should "force" a reanalyze of a plylist in certain cases, although I'm not sure what they'd be.  We're happy to listen to proposals.

The best way would be to split import/export into separate features. One would be a playlist export/import like now, the other would be a data/tag import/export feature. A similar interface like IE with the Import/Export for Favorites/Cookies/Feeds could be used.