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[yonkiman]

Well, several hours after receiving my 20Gig Windows iPod and installing musicmatch plus, I still haven't been able to fill the thing up with music.

I thought it would be simple: make a playlist in MediaJukebox with about 19 gig worth of songs, load the playlist into musicmatch, and do a sync or a download.

Well, I got as far as loading the playlist into musicmatch, so it's all there and it sees all 4000|PLS| songs, but whenever I try to sync/download it only manages to move one song.  I'm pretty tech savvy, but I've exhausted all ideas and it looks like I'm just going to have to reinstall the software.

What a nightmare/disappointment!

In other words, if J River needs any alpha testers for their ipod support when it's ready, they've certainly got one right here!

[Kurt Young]

True true!  Soon as that SDK gets to y'all, I'm totally here for you!  And now that FAT32 PC-compatible iPods are available, you don't need to worry about working with XPlay or MacDrive or any nonsense like that!

iPod iPod iPod!!

[Joe Z.]

I have been lurking and waiting to pull the trigger on a Windows Ipod myself.  I have been reluctant though as I could not decide between a Mac w/Xplay or the Windows version with something better than MusicMatch.

I just do not understand that if you have a FAT32 ipod, why doesn't windows just see it as a removable hard drive where you could just copy and paste within explorer?  I could settle for this while IRiver works on a pluggin.

[Steve]

I have been trading emails with Apple the last couple days and have been somewhat discouraged. The last round told me that an SDK is not going to happen and that we are out of luck (with them). I fired off a response yesterday and will see what I get back and take it from there.

I will keep everyone posted.

[SeanC]

And I don't think MusicMatch has a forum to ask in, do they?

My Ipod is supposed to arrive today.

[JimH]

We're thinking about setting up a forum for Musicmatch users.

[yonkiman]

*Update*

But first, Joe z. asked: "I just do not understand that if you have a FAT32 ipod, why doesn't windows just see it as a removable hard drive where you could just copy and paste within explorer?"

Answer: If it's anything like the Mac iPOD, the songs are "hidden" on the drive, and there's an iPod-specific database the iPOD firmware used to find and play the tracks.  It does show up as a disk drive, and I can drop as many songs as I like on it, but the iPOD's internal software doesn't notice them, they just look like random data on the hard drive.  See some of the ipod web sites or EphPod.com for more info.

OK, now the update:  Last night around 12:30AM I managed to finally start transferring songs from my PC to my iPod, through some magical combination of rebooting, switching from my motherboard 1394 (which has always worked fine for disk drives and camcorders) to my All-In-Wonder's 1394 (which has also always worked fine), and I don't know what.  But it was clearly, finally, transferring songs.  So I let it go at it and went to bed.  

20 minutes later I heard a beeping.  I go downstairs, and my iPOD's batteries are dead.  It wasn't charging from the 1394 port!  The batteries had run out, and the entire operation was hosed.  I took it upstairs and plugged it in to the Apple-supplied charger with the apple-supplied 1394 cable, and guess what?  It STILL wasn't charging!  Apparently I either have a bad 1394 cable, or apple is shipping these things with cables that don't supply power!  I switched to another 1394 cable I had lying around, and it started charging.

Alas, this morning things are even worse than last night - my PC sees the iPod, but the wonderful musicmatch software doesn't.  So I know what I'll be working on tonight...

I'm really surprised about the cable - it was really thin, light and flexible compared to other 1394 cables, but if apple removed the power wires then there is literally no way to ever charge the iPod!  I certainly hope I have a bad cable, and apple's not pissing off/confusing thousands of customers.

If I were a cynical, conspiratorial person, I might think that apple was intentionally a little slack with the quality control (ranging from mm software to the friggin 1394 cable) so they could throw up their hands and say "You should have bought a Mac!" when these sort of things happen.  I honestly don't believe that's the case (Apple values the potential revenue of a huge hit like a Windows iPod more than the "I told you so" factor, but my disbelief is not as strong as it was 12 hours ago...

-Fred

[yonkiman]

Steve/Jim H:

If Apple doesn't support you, you might want to talk to Joe Masters of http://www.ephpod.com/.  Ephpod is a great PC-based iTunes clone, so Joe knows a lot about interfacing to the Mac version, including all the database characteristics.  They are probably similar for the Windows version.  Joe seems pretty helpful and collaborative.

(Ironically, if I'd bought the 20G MAC iPod, I'd be a happy camper right now - Ephpod works great on my system with my girlfriend's 10G Mac iPod.)

-Fred

[Steve]

Fred,

Thanks for the tip. We will check it out.

Steve

[Dave T]

FWIW, I've been using a 20 gig IPod with MusicMatch, with no problems whatsoever.  However, I'm transferring my entire mp3 database (about 250 CD's), not a single playlist full of songs.  I'm using MM to transcode the mp3's to 160kbps, and they will all barely fit.

I haven't had any problems charging from the fireware cable, either.

Still hoping to get the IPod working with MJ, though!  Maybe you should conduct a poll of people saying that they won't buy an IPod until MJ supports it?  Or, how about posting on apple's forum?  There's actually a post there today inquiring about MJ support for the IPod.  Maybe if others add to that thread, Apple will listen.  The thread is here.  You'll also see a lot of complaints about MusicMatch there, too.

[JimH]

If anyone has contact with Apple on this issue, please let them know that we would love to support the iPod and we could probably do it in a few days if we had some specs.  You could give them my email: jimh @ jriver.com.

[cjdshaw]

I'm holding off buying an iPod until MJ supports it, but I've got a few questions for someone with a FAT32 iPod.

If you just connect it without installing any extra drivers or software, is it visible as a firewire drive?

If so, what files are visible? If they're the same as the Mac files, there's a lot of useful reference here:
http://neuron.com/~jason/ipod.html

[cjdshaw]

Further rummaging here implies that the file structure is exactly the same. The relevant iTunesDB file is in the hidden folder \iPod_Control\iTunes.

Are you guys allowed to write to reverse engineered file formats or do you have to get official support from Apple?

[SeanC]

Until MJ can add support, I recommend using EphPod.  Works a treat, and doesn't require MacOpener or other software.  Damn, uploading via FireWire is *fast*!

[Steve]

cjdshaw,

We are going to try to go forward with this on our own. We are ordering our iPod today so that we know what we can begin to get a handle on this.

[yonkiman]

Yep, I've uninstalled every bit of the original Apple/MM software I could, and I'm pretty happy with Ephpod.

Amazing...

[Cotton-Eyed Loo]

Steve and JRiver -> I am DELIGHTED to hear that. My better 2/3s has an older Mac iPod and I'd be happy to use it to test builds - she'd probably allow it too

I'm in despearate need of a new option for portable music and iPod is the best that's out right now (by my criteria: bulk, capacity, quality). I will buy one of these little beasts for myself as soon as you decide it's a go for MJB. The think that would suck is if apple got pissed and made you stop. Then iToo would apple/switch.

thanks again for a great product and a good corporate philosophy!

[Kurt Young]

Another consideration for the iPod plugin:

One of the new iTunes3 features that Apple is touting is the play count function.  Just like in the newest MJ9 preview (which is working GREAT by the way!), when a song gets done playing, its play count increments.  

Well, they made it so that when you get done playing a song on your iPod, the play count increments in the iPod's database.  Then, when you sync, the iPod feeds the play count updates down to iTunes!  I know that I listen to music on my iPod much more often than I do on my PC (on the go more than at home), and if MJ kept up with the iPod's play counts, my smartlists that use play counts would always be up to date!

BTW, off-topic, I'm in no way a "mac-hater," but I think it's kickin that Steve Jobs was talking like Apple just recently invented smartlists, and MJ has had them since late 2000.  Booya!

Cheers, guys!