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Author Topic: Let's BACK it UP  (Read 3082 times)

benn600

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Let's BACK it UP
« on: February 05, 2007, 12:31:35 am »

Any good NAS can lead to a bad oversight.  That oversight is the feeling that your data is safe and doesn't need a backup.  (RAID 5 helps but even without it, you feel somewhat safe knowing your NAS is a few floors down in the basement...you might not hear grinding from the drives (lol...yikes))  Having such a huge NAS, in my case, I am really not able to back everything up nor do I need to.  I will just break down some of the common categories and my feelings on them so everyone reading this can also reevaluate their own solution:

1) Music.  Ranging from small to large collections, lossy libraries are not usually more than 50-200 GB.  Lossless libraries are likely to be smaller because you often can't just download lossless files.  However, the files are also substantially larger (5 times?)  In that case, I fall at around 300 GB so we'll say 200-500 GB for a lossless collection.  In any event, this can be a large data set but it also requires the most work to restore.  That library would consist of 500-2,000 CDs or so.  Each one taking 5-15 minutes!  Now you're talking a month to restore in free time.  This really should be backed up.  It is great to backup to two locations but that may be tough.  If you're on a lossy library, burning to DVD is a great option, taking 10-40 DVDs.  It would be handy to find an indexing program that would allow you to incrementally add files to more DVDs without backing things up twice.

2) Photos.  Now here, your data set could range quite similarly with the music section.  Depending on your habits and efforts to digitize analog photos, you could easy compile a few hundred GB's.  I personally am under 50 GB now but have 30,000 analog pictures/slides/etc I need to scan in which could easily add 200 GB to that number.  Compared to music, which could take a month to restore, I don't even want to consider how long it would take to restore this collection, assuming it's personal photos.  Therefore, you absolutely MUST have two complete backups (plus an online media) and ideally, a burnt media.  I always consider the change that some huge magnetic eruption from the earth or solar system could destroy all our hard drive data so another type of media is a great option here.  I'm thinking most collections are under 50 GB, too, so DVD backup wouldn't be that challenging.  How does flickr or other online photo services assist in this area?  I'm interested in feedback regarding free online "original file" backups.  It wouldn't be terrible to have a lower res backup as a last resort, though!

3) Video.  Lots of people probably have at least some home movies and I'm guessing their burnt to DVD already.  I personally have around 100 DVDs of personal home movies ranging from my beginnings on this planet to our modern activities, etc.  I have an A and B set of DVDs I keep in two identical binders.  I will consider creating a third, C, set in a few years since DVDs may "die" over the years.  I also keep these on my NAS.  In general, I don't need to back these up again because I already have two DVD copies (one I usually keep offsite) and I have two onsite copies.  At around 360 GB for all 100 DVDs, this is quite similar to my music collection or what I think my photo collection will be in a few years...it can't all be backed up amazingly.  Besides, burning these movies to DVD just makes sense.  That's how most people would watch them.  I prefer the computer with MC or VLC but it's still just a perfect, modern format.

4) DVDs.  These really don't need to be backed up a second time nor can you afford to back them up again!  One backup to a NAS is enough.  In the worst case, these could theoretically be replaced.  Also, re-ripping them would be much more reasonable.  At 100 TV DVDs, & 100 movie DVDs (excluding 100 home DVDs), this comes in at around 1,200 GB.  That's way too much to try to backup.  They also take around the same time per disc not to mention the fact that I have 1/5 as many DVDs compared to CDs, so the recovery time is greatly reduced.

5) Installers.  I keep copies of all my installers and purchased software as backups with the purchased licenses.  These only account for 10 GB so might as well back them up!  Don't really want to lose all the licenses for the software I've purchased!

6) Podcasts.  They really aren't worth it!  In the worst case, it would force me to clean out my folder...lol.  I usually accumulate tons of files that I wouldn't ever have time to listen to...although I only subscribe to a limited number of podcasts: CrankyGeeks, dltv, hak5, happy tree friends, indigital, radio leo, tikibartv::: but they still pile up and just get in the way.  I, at one point, deleted 30 GB of podcasts.  At that point I was subscribing to 2-3 times as many, though.

7) Documents, Profiles.  I keep all my families documents (4 users) plus some shared documents folders in a Documents folder and a Profiles folder which contains our Desktop files, firefox profile, media center database, screensaver pics (for screensaver), sunbird profile, temp (MC rip), thunderbird profile, and wallpaper pics (for background).  As a side note, I highly recommend the free Auto Wallpaper Changer.  I install it on all our computers and I have a registry file I custom crafted so when I double click it, it automatically sets that computer's user account up with my custom settings and points it to my NAS wallpaper folder.  That way, all our computers draw from one folder and get a new background every 30 minutes.  I can keep the wallpaper fresh and relative to events of the time.  I also have a screensaver folder but don't use that as much.  I'm thinking I'll disable the screensaver altogether on my next format.  Anyway, this amounts to under 20GB and is obviously VERY important.  It has all our favorites, documents, profiles, address books, calendars, some pictures, etc.  It's really all the stuff we use on a daily basis whether it's just the background, opening firefox, etc.  These things can be recreated periodically as a way to help clean out things but you definitely don't want to lose the core data.  Back this up a few times!  It's small and easy.

8) Web Site.  If you mess around with a web server or make sites for fun or professionally, obviously back them up.  Don't forget the databases and email database if you run an email server.  (I recommend the free hmailserver--very easy to use).

Any other major categories we should consider?  I just thought it would be good to discuss backing up in a bit more detail, so let's hear the discussion roar!
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johnnyboy

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 06:12:27 pm »

If you want an offsite backup a reasonably cheap easy way to do it (although not really a backup service but would work) is to take out web hosting with some of the newer hosts that offer insane amounts of space (www.monsterhost.com) and just upload all your valuable data to that.

$75 a year is going to give you an offsite backup for all your super valuable data.
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benn600

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 06:36:32 pm »

lol.  Problem loading page.

Sounds like a great solution!

I have a hard time thinking I would want to upload all my personal data (with passwords, financial info), documents, music, photos, movies, etc., to a cheap host like that and I doubt they would offer a whole lot for that little...My backup NAS is 600 GB and I have a 500 GB drive...so I have two hard drive backups plus DVD backups of the most important stuff.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 07:31:17 am »

If you start doing the Maths on how long it will take to upload
on a Home broadband 8MB ADSL line (750K/bits Upstream),
 it starts to seem like a less brilliant idea for most people me thinks!

On another line of thought, we've just bought one of the
new black Buffalo Linkstations.
Link
It's a fantastic little device.  1000 Base T connection if you've got
a network that supports it.  Built in Backup synchronising software
if you buy multiple linkstations (I haven't tried this).  Extensible by
plugging in of Buffalo Drive stations...
and heres the bit that's uber cool....
When you go to it's web page it's got a pager option
to identify which linkstation you're connected to, and it plays
a musical tune!  ;D

benn600

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 09:41:59 am »

Leo Laporte and the Hak5 people discussed.  They concluded the Buffalo is a piece of junk with a really slow processor so RAID5 is out of the question.  Perhaps there is a better model.  They decided Infrant is the better choice.  I like mine because neither, that I've seen, allow 10 drives.  Yay!
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 11:01:42 am »

Well it does what we need really well, and for very little money =)
We don't really need RAID style reliability nor performance.
We intend to get another one once the companys got a bit
more money, to do daily backups.  For the moment we just do
backup to our own machines.

benn600

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 03:48:56 pm »

That's a great idea.  I have somewhat of a desire to get computers with small hard drives (40GB) because then I can't use them for backup--assuming I have other backups locations.  I don't like the idea of putting a 250GB hard drive in any but one computer in my house because they just don't need it.  Everything is stored on the NAS except DV video which I edit on only one computer.  Why waste all that space?  But now, it's the same price or cheaper to just get a popular, widely available drive.
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johnnyboy

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2007, 12:17:24 am »

the website was hostmonster.com sorry.

And the maths aren't that bad - you wouldn't be using it for backing up all your music or dvd's etc - you'd simply be using it to backup crucial stuff that you cant replace ie your photos.
With the music you could always get it again even if it cost you so its not critical importance - your photos on the other hand are irreplaceable.

And benn - the speed is a reason to have a 250Gb HD in each machine. Also, people often download and play with alot of junk - you dont want all that stuff being writen to and read from your NAS as it's just adding to the overall wear on your drives so speeding up their death.

Your best bet is to get say a 320Gb drive and then partition it into two 160Gb partitions with one hidden in windows and some backup software (say Acronis True Image Home) that will then backup to this partition which windows cant access (ie a virus cant get to).

That way each machine is individually backed up against software or virus issues and the only concern is hardware failure (not really that big an issue as people tend to replace the HD's before they fail). Also, with important stuff it would be copied over to the NAS.
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benn600

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 04:49:37 pm »

That's the surprise.  Everyone besides me has very limited needs.  I'd say my whole family would be perfectly fine with a 120 or 160 GB hard drive...and without me, they wouldn't have a huge FLAC library (and lots of other things).  One user only uses Firefox for 2-3 sites per day and maybe an occasional Google search and the second does that with a bit of email...finally, the third does what the first does plus a little bit of music every day.  I'm the only one who really uses most of the other resources.  Therefore my NAS has limited needs.

Today when I got home, my NAS had rebooted and said Failed.  All I had to do was restart and it started working again, but it scared me.  I was using Logmein from school and the browser crashed so perhaps Logmein crashed at home...not sure...I really love Logmein free, though.  and I also definitely know it could have been a million other things.  Not really sure what caused the hard reboot.  Luckily nothing was writing to the NAS that I know of.

Then, to make matters even stranger!  When I got Firefox back (once the NAS was back up)...our internet didn't work!  That required a reboot of IPCop.  Both of which are simple fixes but better not be regular occurrences.  Who's heard of a Linux solution, IPCop, crashing?!  It wasn't even being used heavily!  Theoretically it could have been my DSL, though.  Although I don't need to use the PPoE junk...it acts very well like a cable modem where no configuration is needed if that matters.
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johnnyboy

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Re: Let's BACK it UP
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2007, 05:02:15 pm »

IPCop was pretty rock solid for me. The only time it'd mess up (not even sure if it was IPCop to be honest, I think it was probably the cable modem) was when I was heavily using p2p back in the day. Other than that no issues and its been running steadily at home now for the last 6 months without so much as a reboot.
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