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[modelmaker]

I bought a couple downloadable wma albums from Rhino Records last nite. I have no experience with wma and DRM, (all my stuff is ape and mp3).

In MC and WMP when I try to play a DRM'd track, I get a message saying that the DRM needs to be updated, I click ok, wait a few seconds and the chosen track goes red and then it proceeds to next track and repeats this until it's gone thru all the tracks and then I get a message that says that WMP is incorrectly installed. (I have "automatically retrieve licenses..." enabled. I've now re-installed WMP 4 times. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Any help would be appreciated.


Media Center Registered 12.0.164 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 12\

Microsoft Windows 2000  Workstation 5.0 Service Pack 4 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1659 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 225 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.81.4968 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2800 / Shell32.dll: 5.0.3900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A

[modelmaker]

Anybody got any advice on this?

[jgreen]

I'm  little confused by your question--are you trying to play the wma's in WMP or MC?  Or do they just not play at all, ever?

Here's the tiny bit I know about WMA DRM:  There are several different types of liscenses that are offered for WMA DRM.  Some need to phone home once a month, some need to phone home on every play.  Some require that your computer be "individualized", which means that somebody, somewhere can identify your computer.  Other WMA's do not require this individualization.  The commonality to all this is that in order to play your music, the player MUST have internet access, at least initially.

So for starters, make sure you allow MC access to the internet so it can validate the license.  Also, certain A/V software can inhibit the internal communication required for MC to check (locally) if the license has expired.

My own experience, with WMA's from Napster and Tower Digital, is that MC plays them flawlessly.  Better even than the Napster player did, when first released.  I don't know how WMP does with WMA's, as I have not played music on WMP since the day two years ago that I discovered MC. 

 

[modelmaker]

Thanks for the response, I'm getting very frustrated.

Well something's really screwed up somewhere. I just tried a DRM video file from a different source, but with the same results.

They don't play at all. I tried first to play in MC and then when that didn't work, I tried directly with the winplayer (I hadn't opened that in a long, long, long time) and the player was the latest version 9 (Win2K) as I had recently re-installed IE and some other Win stuff. The settings in WMP seem to all be set correctly.

I always have internet access. What kind of A/V software? I only have MC, WMP, I think RealPlayer is still installed - I haven't opened it in a couple of years and the ATI software that goes with my AIW 9000 video card.

I have tried this with anti-virus on and off, no diff. No pop-up blocker. Router is also bypassed at the moment.

Do I call my computer service shop tomorrow???

[Alex B]

I have only one rather old DRM protected WMA file. It works on my PC. MC12 and MC11.1 can play the file without problems. MC shows that the file is protected in the format info. The license for this file was installed about two years ago (I think).

- XP Home / WMP10 / All available updates and codecs for WMP10 (I have not allowed MC12 to install the newer WM codec versions because I don't know if they would work with WMP10.)


I have a Windows 2000 Pro PC too, but that PC does not have any protected WMA files to test with. Jay, did one of the recent MC12 builds install or try to install the new WM codec pack on your W2k PC?

[JimH]

I bought a couple downloadable wma albums from Rhino Records last nite. I have no experience with wma and DRM, (all my stuff is ape and mp3).

Check Rhino's website to see what they recommend for playback and try that.  It may download what you need.

It isn't clear, but I think you're saying that you can't play with Windows Media Player or MC12.  Correct?

[modelmaker]

Yes Jim, both MC 12.164 & WMP 9 (with Win2K), I tried playback with MC first (of course!).

This is the answer I got from Rhino:

I received your call regarding the problems you've experienced playing your downloaded tracks.  I apologize for the inconvenience.  Here are some tips for getting your tracks to play:

If you are trying to download to a different computer, you will get an error message.  If you purchased on one computer but did not download, then you can download to a different computer but if it's been downloaded on one computer, you cannot use the link to download to another.

Just one computer.

You may need to turn off your pop-up blocker. Sometimes when the download manager is accessed, it is detected as a pop up.

Pop up blocker - off, anti-virus - off

If it is your 4th attempt to download, please contact us so that we may reset the license link, as you will have exhausted the 3 attempts provided.

This has been reset.

Could be a connection problem, your service provider could have had an interruption in service. You can shut down and view your connections.  Re-boot if necessary.

no connection probs.

Also, please review our digital FAQs, at the following link:  http://www.rhino.com/store/digital/index.lasso (the link to the FAQ pop-up is in the right-hand navigation)

No help there either.

If you are still having difficulties after reviewing these potential remedies (or if you would just prefer a refund), please reply to this email.  I will have our order center issue you a credit for the purchase.  We have experienced some technical difficulties with our downloads and are currently working to improve the experience.  Any feedback you have would be much appreciated.  Again, I apologize for the inconvenience and if you have any questions, please let me know.

Since this is also occurring with some old WM video files, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the downloads themselves (see below)

Not much help there.


Alex:

Jay, did one of the recent MC12 builds install or try to install the new WM codec pack on your W2k PC?

To be honest, I hadn't really paid attention to that, since these are the first DRM protected audio files I've tried to play. How do I check this?

I also tried some WM video files (licensed) that I downloaded some time ago and worked then (MC 9.1 days), also aren't playing, (I forgot I had them).

update: II don't know if this is relevant: In the folder that contains the old video files, I just found this folder: xpl-che-0043_d, inside the folder was MC 120161.exe. I have no idea why it's there, I certainly had no reason to put it there, I hadn't even opened that video folder in at least a year and a half. That build is not where I save all the new builds, (C: Prog Files/J RIver/MC exe files/MC 12).

Thanks for pitching in guys. Jay

[jgreen]

Jay--

I had a quick look at the Rhino site, and that combined with the email you posted makes me confident that Rhino is a MusicNet frontend.  Musicnet is the DRM provider for Napster, Yahoo, Performer, and many others (but not itunes).  So here is my suggestion:

Either give up entirely, and call it a cheap lesson learned re/DRM, or open a free 7-day trial subscription to Napster.  I suggest this because the Napster service has macros to go get the codecs or voodoo that subscribers' machines may be missing.  When I ran Win2k (I run XP now), you could hear the Napster customer service rep's eyes rolling, as if to say "Oh no, not another Win2k."  So I think the problem, if it's not a simple case of antivirus preventing some sort of communication, is probably more like Alex B aludes to, a mismatch of win2k with windows media codecs.

Best of luck, Hombre.  If it's any consolation, EVERYONE's having trouble with the MSFT DRM.  This is the reason why the labels are considering dropping DRM entirely.  Post back your results and we'll try to go from there.       

[JimH]

If it's any consolation, EVERYONE's having trouble with the MSFT DRM.  This is the reason why the labels are considering dropping DRM entirely.

Not to defend the irresistable force, but we work with DRM quite a bit, and I don't think this is the case.  I think it's more a problem with Microsoft switching Windows Media components.  We also have trouble when we switch versions.

Try getting the latest version of WMP available from Microsoft's site and feed the files to it.  If that doesn't work, download and install Windows Media components from MS.

[jgreen]

Okay, not "everyone", but I was tempted to give up audio entirely. 

Just to repeat, MC never failed to play a DRM track that the system recognized, while Napster's own player occassionally did.  And again with purchased DRM tracks from Tower Digital, no problems.  So it will work on Jay's machine also.  But particularly on Win2k, the DRM is vulnerable to a/v, cache cleaners, etc.  And working through that can take stamina.

[modelmaker]

Well, I've decided to bite the bullet and move to XP. Win2K has, up to now, been solid as a rock and I don't like to "fix it if it ain't broke", but there have been a couple of other issues recently with Win2K, so I guess it's time! This DRM problem is just the last straw, (I know it's not MC's fault). I put this off for a long time also because of all the probs I had back in the day with ME, which left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to re-installing Windows.

Rhino Records took care of me, by changing my purchases to actual CDs, (I did have to pay the diff, but they paid the shipping "for the inconvenience"). Good guys.

So, wish me luck, see ya in a day or so. Jay.

[jgreen]

Glad it worked out for you.  Just to recap my impression of this, the anti-virus software, anti-spyware, cache-cleaner and other "privacy" programs are the first, most likely culprit.  You mentioned there were a variety of reasons for moving from 2k to xp, but don't forget to balance out the likely disruption during the upgrade process, as drivers are updated, etc.  So if the DRM thing were the primary issue here, I would hammer away at the a/v issues first, and then give the WM codec upgrade a try (although doing it through Napster is easier).

[modelmaker]

I  uninstalled all virus protection and tried the Napster route as you suggested - no joy.

I am not proficient enough to do anymore digging for this problem. I talked to my computer tech guy and he said he had had a customer with a similar problem and was never able to resolve it other than to re-install Windows (XP in that case).

I'm certainly not looking forward to spending my Sunday installing XP and everything that goes with that process (re-installing all my apps and data backups), but I'm ready, there have been several apps that I've wanted to try that wouldn't work with 2K, so I guess it's time to say goodbye to Win2K.

Once I get the desktop back up I will try my laptop and see if it's also got the problem and report back tomorrow.

[jgreen]

Sounds good, but I would try calling Napster support (the phone # is on their site somewhere) and make them walk you through the codec install.  I just see the upgrade process as having its own share of mcGuffins. 

Also, if you're adventurous, you can go to "kittysupport.com" (or "dot net", I can't remember, but no "www" in either case).  There you will find Napster-hosted links that will clear a path on your machine to play WMA DRM.  Just to remind you, one possible missing bitlet is "indivdualization", where MSFT really does identify your computer and keep a record of it, although it doesn't match that info to you unless you give them a reason to do so. 

[modelmaker]

Well, I'm back up and running after a tortuous XP and 6 internal hard drive install, (it took 2 days and 2 trips to the computer shop!). Except for the prob restoring my MC license, everything else seems to be ok. I spent most of Tuesday re-installing all my apps and configuring XP to my liking. What a relief that's done!

Since I will be snowbound for the next day or two, I will experiment  a bit more with the DRM crap.

[jgreen]

I've got my fingers crossed.  I think the clean install will have cured a lot of stuff.