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[Matt]

Is there any reason to have the "Home" button in Theater View, or is "Back" enough?

[raym]

I like the home button myself. Some of my view schemes are quite deep. It's good to be able to get back home with a single button press.

[Doof]

I use it fairly often, but I also have dedicated buttons on my remote to get me there as well, so if it were removed, I wouldn't miss it.

One thing I would like to get rid of, though, or at least the option to hide it, is the Exit button. I don't want my Theater View users to be able to find themselves anywhere but in Theater View.

[raym]

One thing I would like to get rid of, though, or at least the option to hide it, is the Exit button. I don't want my Theater View users to be able to find themselves anywhere but in Theater View.

I agree with this for the exact same reason.

[modelmaker]

Yeah, if you want to get rid of something, get rid of the exit button, not the home button.

[zirum]

Would rather preffer the exit button availible in the "Items to show" on Theater view properties, than just removing it...

Home I occasionally use, but not desperately.

[nedam]

It's a feature I use frequently - I would vote to keep the Home button. 

[gappie]

I use it fairly often, but I also have dedicated buttons on my remote to get me there as well, so if it were removed, I wouldn't miss it.

One thing I would like to get rid of, though, or at least the option to hide it, is the Exit button. I don't want my Theater View users to be able to find themselves anywhere but in Theater View.

exactly my thoughts.

[glynor]

It looks like removing the home button is losing in the "poll" but I couldn't care less, about either the home or the exit button.

I use my Audio/Video/Images buttons on my FireFly remote to switch modes in Theater View and rarely use the Home pane.  I would really like it if ESC would do the same thing as Back when in Theater View (instead of exiting TV), but probably a lot of people would get annoyed by this change.

[Griff]

I never use the home button,

and please get rid of the exit button.

Thanks

[Matt]

It feels cleaner to us without the home button, so give it a shot for a build.

As an olive branch, we added search with an on-screen keyboard to the next build.

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

[raym]

It feels cleaner to us without the home button, so give it a shot for a build.

As an olive branch, we added search with an on-screen keyboard to the next build.

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

OSK? Look forward to seeing this!!!!

Matt, what about (as suggested here) including exit on the configurable "items to show" and setting it ON as default. That way, we can hide it, for those that want to, just like any other menu option...?

[Doof]

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

That would work for me.

[johnnyboy]

OSK? Look forward to seeing this!!!!

Matt, what about (as suggested here) including exit on the configurable "items to show" and setting it ON as default. That way, we can hide it, for those that want to, just like any other menu option...?

Sounds like the best solution to me - do this for both 'home' and 'exit'.

[raym]

It feels cleaner to us without the home button, so give it a shot for a build.

For what it's worth, I'm not missing the HOME button.

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

Why has the right mouse click action been disabled in Theater View? MC11.1 allowed it and was a fairly intuitive way to get to standard view if you had to I thought.

I hope the EXIT button will be removed soon also but via the "items to show" suggestion. I don't think I like the idea of an X in the top right corner. Sounds ugly....

[rpalmer68]

I'm not missing the HOME bttion, but my wife was not happy that the Page Up and Page Down buttons have also gone.

Not sure which build these were removed, but I''ve been away for a week.

The first comments my wife made were, "cute icons" and then "Where's the page down gone?"

It doesn't seem matter if I have the buttons on the remote, she always just uses the arrows and Enter!

Richard

[Doof]

The search feature is pretty cool.

One addition to it that would be awesome and make it even quicker to use would be to "borrow" a feature that the Time Warner DVR has.

As you type in a search query using its OSK, not only does it filter out non-matching items in the list, but it also filters out letters on the keyboard that don't match anything.

For instance, if my library had at least one song starting with every letter of the alphabet, but only had these three songs that started with the letter 'A':

Aeroplane
Again
Against The Wind

My search would start off with all OSK keys enabled. Then, as soon as I hit the 'A', all of the keys on the OSK would be disabled except for the 'E' and 'G' keys. Navigating to one of these two keys would quick because it would automatically skip over any disabled keys and jump right to the nearest one that was in the direction I pressed. So let's say I then pressed the 'G' button. Now the only key available to me would be 'A'. At this point, only Again and Against The Wind are in my list and the only key I can press on the OSK would be 'A'.

It was actually the only feature on the DVR I liked. And it would take MC's OSK to that next level.

What do you all think?

[Matt]

The search feature is pretty cool.

One addition to it that would be awesome and make it even quicker to use would be to "borrow" a feature that the Time Warner DVR has.

As you type in a search query using its OSK, not only does it filter out non-matching items in the list, but it also filters out letters on the keyboard that don't match anything.

For instance, if my library had at least one song starting with every letter of the alphabet, but only had these three songs that started with the letter 'A':

Aeroplane
Again
Against The Wind

My search would start off with all OSK keys enabled. Then, as soon as I hit the 'A', all of the keys on the OSK would be disabled except for the 'E' and 'G' keys. Navigating to one of these two keys would quick because it would automatically skip over any disabled keys and jump right to the nearest one that was in the direction I pressed. So let's say I then pressed the 'G' button. Now the only key available to me would be 'A'. At this point, only Again and Against The Wind are in my list and the only key I can press on the OSK would be 'A'.

It was actually the only feature on the DVR I liked. And it would take MC's OSK to that next level.

What do you all think?

We toyed with this idea.

It makes the search less consistent since sometimes A->C takes two clicks and sometimes it takes one click.

However, it's not real tricky to add (the old search did this) so perhaps it's worth a shot.

Any other opinions?

[Doof]

My only other thought on it is that if it dramatically slows down the search (due to having to analyze the results and filter out keys), then it's not worth it. The idea is to make searching faster and easier. But if it can be done without slowing things down, then it will be worth it. Especially if you have to go from A->_

[glynor]

We toyed with this idea.

It makes the search less consistent since sometimes A->C takes two clicks and sometimes it takes one click.

However, it's not real tricky to add (the old search did this) so perhaps it's worth a shot.

Any other opinions?

I think it's a fabulous idea, since the OSK is inherently slow to use any speedup is appreciated.

Also, a new user had asked why in TV and viewing a view scheme when you type a letter key(s) on your keyboard it doesn't jump to that letter for you, as it does in Standard View.  Is there any chance this could be implemented?  Its different than the search being discussed here, but it would actually make navigating TV with a keyboard a lot quicker if you know what you're looking for.

For example, say I'm in a Genre/Artist/Album view scheme and I want to find Radiohead's Kid A album.  I have Radiohead filed under Psychedelic Rock.  In TV, I should be able to open the view scheme and then type "psy" & <ENTER> & "rad" & <ENTER> & "k" & <ENTER> to quickly navigate to the album I want.  As it is, I have to use Page Up/Down and Arrow Up/Down to manually find what I'm looking for.  In Standard View this type of "keyboard seeking" works, but not in TV.

[Alex B]

I tried this new search with a simple audio view scheme that contains two view items: [Album Artist (auto)] and Album. In the Artist view I tried to search for Pink Floyd albums. After writing "pink" I realised that the search returns all tracks that contain "pink" instead of the artists' names. After writing Pink Floyd I realised that this search cannot be used for displaying Pink Floyd albums. MC listed all 129 Pink Floyd tracks with unclear shortened names and without album information.

The only way to show all Pink Floyd albums is to scroll down through the Artists and click the Pink Floyd thumbnail. For me, this means 117 page down steps (when the bigger cover art thumbnails are displayed).

[glynor]

The only way to show all Pink Floyd albums is to scroll down through the Artists. For me, this means 117 page down steps.

Exactly.  Which is why I'd like to have the typing "seek" method.  I'd also love it if there were an OSK version of the same function, so that you could use it without needing a keyboard at hand.

The search function is useful, but generally less so for me.  I'd much rather be able to "find within a view scheme" in Theater View.  To use Alex's example, I'd love to be able to also (in addition to my keyboard method described above):

Navigate from Home --> Audio --> Genre/Artist/Album
Pull up the OSK and enter "psy" with my remote.  Hit "enter".
Pull up the OSK (or if it could somehow "stay open until closed hovering on the left that'd be even better) and type "pink", and hit "enter".

That would take me to my Album listing for Pink Floyd which is a somewhat more manageable list (though I do have a lot of Floyd live shows).  I could then arrow key through the list to find the album I want.

I'd use this function probably almost every time I use Theater View if it were available.

The search?  Eh.  If I'm looking for one specific file I might use it, but generally I'd just do that in Standard View anyway.

[glynor]

Oh!  And to make it even better and faster for remote control usage, if when the OSK is open, you could type the number keys (0-9) ala phone alphanumeric keyboard style to enter the characters in (in addition to navigating to the different letters with the arrow keys)! 
Lots of remote controls (ATI Remote Wonder and Snapstream Firefly for example) have the Alpha-numeric keys printed with the proper letters so using it would be simple and intuitive!

That would be spam-tac-u-lar! 

Then, finding Pink Floyd could go:

Open OSK, type: "7" <pause> "444" <pause> "66" <pause> "55"

Instead of Open OSK, and type: arrow right, arrow down, arrow down, arrow down, enter, arrow right, arrow right, etc, etc, etc ad nauseum!

To keep users from getting confused between the two methods, you could move the "file search" type of search from the toolbar on the left in TV, to the "View Scheme List" in the main right-hand pane whenever you're at the root of Audio, Video, or Images.  This makes more sense anyway since it searches all your audio, not just within wherever you've drilled down.  For the "keyboard" control on the left, just call it Keyboard!

[Griff]

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

I agree

or maybe Shutdown / Power down, since a new user might not know how to do that ?

However, it's not real tricky to add (the old search did this) so perhaps it's worth a shot.

Any other opinions?

Lets try it and see what people think.

Thanks

[nedam]

I do miss the Home button.  In Theater View I am constantly going to Playing Now and I used the Home button to get to that view.  Now if I have drilled down into the collection it takes me hitting the Back button half a dozen times to get to the Playing Now button.  Is there an easier way that I am missing?

I have to agree with the other posts about the new search feature.  It doesn't work for me because it is to broad.  When I type "kenny lo" I still have songs by Kenny Wayne Shepard, Kenny Garrett, Kenny G and Kenny Loggins. I seldom look for a particular song so if that is what this search is geared for (And that is what users want.) then that may work just fine but as it is it doesn't add much for my way of searching the catalog.

 I think implementing the keypad search proposed by glynor would  be super.  We have talked about something like this in Theater View before and I still think it is a good idea.

[Griff]

I do miss the Home button.  In Theater View I am constantly going to Playing Now and I used the Home button to get to that view.  Now if I have drilled down into the collection it takes me hitting the Back button half a dozen times to get to the Playing Now button.  Is there an easier way that I am missing

Have you tried MCC commands ?

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=28539.0

[nedam]

Griff thanks and good thinking. I do hate to give up a remote button when I don't have to - maybe I can do an either\or for the button that takes me into Theater mode in the first place. When I'm in Theater mode it takes me to Playing Now if I am not it takes me into Theater mode.

Thanks again for the reply

[raym]

I'm not missing the HOME bttion, but my wife was not happy that the Page Up and Page Down buttons have also gone.

This doesn't personally bother me but yeah, I noticed this recently too. Might upset the touch-screen users?

[glynor]

I'm also not a fan of the missing Page Up/Down.

[gappie]

we (my wife and me) played a lot with it this evening. and we do miss the home button. and realy dont care about the search. nice but far to much work. in the case of pink floyd (i only have vinyl of those guys, but as a theoratical case). i just go to audio, use the down arrow a few times to go to the P and then to pink floyd and get there albums. not much work. when using the search i really have to do a lot of arrowing all sites up down etc to get a name( or at least a part) and i get a list of songs, not albums which would make it a bit usefull (i did test it with john zorn, but it would be the same as pink floyd). and the fact that it is like alphabetical made it actually more complex.

i think a well made view/playlist uses at most the same amount of arrow moves as the search function to get the same thing done.

but to get 'oops... i did it again' played by richard thompson was a bit less work with the search. was the olny thing i have with oops

for me it would be much more usefull when i make a smartlist with fullalbums, i get those full albums in theater view instead of full songs.

[nedam]

I thought the lack of Page Up and Page Down was a bug that was introduced a couple of versions ago as Matt indicated here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=37129.0 .

Is this not the case? 

As an aside I hope the menu font not changing also gets fixed.

I agree about the search feature.  It would be useful if it had the option to look up only artist or only albums but as is it is not something I will use.

[lalittle]

I miss the "Home" button.  I actually came here to comment on the sudden absence of it, but I discovered this thread.  When I'm a few levels deep, I like to be able to simply hit the "Home" button instead of having to hit "Back, Back, Back."

What's really driving me NUTS, however, is the "twitching" of the list words/boxes when scrolling in Theater View, which happens on every system I've tried so far when I have the full screen display set to 1024 x 768.

Larry

[Two Wire]

I also would like to have the Home button restored. It dosen't occupy much real estate and is a click saver. Can you say carpal tunnel syndrome?

[lalittle]

I forgot to mention that I also really miss the "All" button at the top of some of the lists (like "artist.")  It seems like such miniscule inconvenience for people that don't use it, but it really helps those of us that do.

Larry

[raym]

This is a fairly long thread considering the initial subject matter. It highlights a couple of things to me:-

1. More people care about Theater View than I thought (hooraa!!!)
2. MC could beneifit with offering a little more user control over some of this stuff.

My suggestion would be to include the following things in the "Items to Show" user option for Theater View:-

a) Home button
b) Exit button
c) Pg Up / Pg Down buttons
d) The "All" folder(s)
e) ...and anything else which could make sense.

Cheers

[Doof]

FWIW, I definitely agree about the "All" item as well.

[glynor]

FWIW, I definitely agree about the "All" item as well.

Me 2.

(Not to get another one of those going again.)   

[rpalmer68]

This is a fairly long thread considering the initial subject matter. It highlights a couple of things to me:-

1. More people care about Theater View than I thought (hooraa!!!)
2. MC could beneifit with offering a little more user control over some of this stuff.

My suggestion would be to include the following things in the "Items to Show" user option for Theater View:-

a) Home button
b) Exit button
c) Pg Up / Pg Down buttons
d) The "All" folder(s)
e) ...and anything else which could make sense.

Cheers

This has my vote!

Richard

[JimH]

(Not to get another one of those going again.)   

Thanks....

[skeeterfood]

(Not to get another one of those going again.)   

But it did work last time...

Count me in!

-John

[rsbrux]

Also, the "Exit" button is there because of the scared look we've seen on peoples faces when they were exploring the program and got stuck in Theater View.  Perhaps an X in the top right would be more straightforward? (since the keyboard / remote wouldn't get to it)

I prefer the solution in Windows MCE, where "Exit" is indeed concealed behind an "X", but is still accessible by means of the remote control.