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[broncodan]

Hi,

I can't locate this tag value in MC12 - I looked around the board and I know that MC11 use to keep ratings in a comm field but I thought that this was changed in MC12 and that there was now a POPM field?  I can only locate the Rating field.  Is the "Rating" tag field in MC12 actually the "Popm" tag???


The other thing I noticed about the Rating field is that it doesn't seem to update the actual file when changed - only the library.

I have MC12 set to update files with tag changes - change the rating - the rating changes in the library but it doesn't seem to update the rating/popm field in the actual tag. 

I used tag and rename to rate a file - then updated MC 12 and the rating field changed based of the change I made in tag and rename. 

But if I change it in MC12 - the change isn't showing up in the tag in tag and rename.
 
I know that MC 12 is updating some of the tags - because when I reloaded a file that didn't have lyrics in the tag - once I updated the file via MC 12 - then the lyrics showed up in Tag and rename.

It seems to be just the ratings field (tag).

Sorry if this is confusing.  Can anyone else confirm that the tag isn't changing for Rating?

[broncodan]

No response - at least tell me if the Rating field is the Popm field and why it doesn't update the tags automatically or via the manual mode??? 

Thanks.

[Alex B]

I assume that the file format is MP3 (MC uses ID3 tags only with MP3 files).

By default MC12 updates the POPM ID3v2.3 field in MP3 files when ratings are changed. I have tested this and it works. Have you changed any tag related options?

Also, have you checked the format info? (Click the "Format" field inside Action Window > Tag for making it to show a full tag dump. This shows the tag fields directly from the selected file.)
Is the following line visible: POPM: <unknown data type> ?

You can also open an MP3 file with a text editor like Notepad (this is usually very slow) or with a hex editor (this is faster) for checking if the POPM field is present. All ID3v2.3 tags are in the beginning of the file.

However, as you said, it seems that Tag&Rename can't display the POPM tags that are created with MC12, even though e.g. Window Media Player 11 or Mp3tag can do the same without problems. The used tagging format must be slightly different, but I can't say what exactly is the difference.

[broncodan]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for your reply - yes the file types are all MP3 - when I select Format I  DO NOT see the POPM field for a file that has been rated in MC.  Most of my files were rated using MC11 and then transferred over to MC 12.

When I look at the properties under "Format"  I see a lot of info about the v1 tag and the v2.3 tag - when I manually save the tag info from the library - it does update the information - e.g. on the file I did this with - when I first looked at Format - it didn't display the comm - replay, intensity, peak - info for the 2.3 tag - after saving it again - these showed up.  But the POPM tag didn't show up neither did  Comm - rating.....

So I am not sure where the rating information for my library is being maintained - just the db??  Is there anyway I can copy the rating to another field and then into the POPM field?  I would really like to get these into my tags. 

Thanks in advance.

[Alex B]

It works for me. On the first tag update MC12 writes the POPM rating (and rewrites the comments so that the old rating comment disappears).

Have you checked the field specific write option in
Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Standard Library Fields > Rating > Edit Field > Data: Store in file tags (when possible) ?
(Though, this option is enabled by default. The POPM tag writing should work if you have not deliberately changed the option.)

EDIT

On my PC the "format" info looks like this,

Before a tag write:

MPEG-1 Layer 3
190 Kbit VBR
44.1 Khz Joint stereo

Copyrighted: No
Original: Yes
Protected by CRC: No
Encoder: LAME3.91
Gapless: Yes (576 start, 1296 end)

ID3v1 Tag: (128 bytes)
   Name: Best Of My Love
   Artist: Eagles
   Album: The Very Best Of The Eagles
   Year: 2001
   Comment:
   Track #: 8
   Genre: Rock (17)

ID3v2.3 Tag: (2220 bytes)
  TCON (Content type): Rock
  TYER (Year): 2001
  TIT2 (Title): Best Of My Love
  TRCK (Track number): 8
  TPE1 (Lead performer(s)): Eagles
  TALB (Album): The Very Best Of The Eagles
  COMM (Comments):
  COMM (Tool Name): Media Center
  COMM (Tool Version): 11.1.201
  COMM (Date): 36892
  COMM (Rating): 3

After:

MPEG-1 Layer 3
190 Kbit VBR
44.1 Khz Joint stereo

Copyrighted: No
Original: Yes
Protected by CRC: No
Encoder: LAME3.91
Gapless: Yes (576 start, 1296 end)

ID3v1 Tag: (128 bytes)
   Name: Best Of My Love
   Artist: Eagles
   Album: The Very Best Of The Eagles
   Year: 2001
   Comment:
   Track #: 8
   Genre: Rock (17)

ID3v2.3 Tag: (2220 bytes)
  TCON (Content type): Rock
  TYER (Year): 2001
  TIT2 (Title): Best Of My Love
  TRCK (Track number): 8
   POPM: <unknown data type>
  TPE1 (Lead performer(s)): Eagles
  TALB (Album): The Very Best Of The Eagles
  COMM (Comments):
  COMM (Tool Name): Media Center
  COMM (Tool Version): 12.0.224
  COMM (Date): 36892

[broncodan]

Hi Alex,

I did what you said and you are correct the Popm field showed up as <unknown value> - If I change the rating in MC 12 - this doesn't change - still reads as unknown value.  This is using manually updating the tag from library feature.

I then used tag and rename to look at the file - and still no rating appears in tag and rename.  I then added a rating in the popm field in tag and rename with a rating - saved the tag.  Then using manually update library from tag feature - I now show 2 separate Popm values <unknown value> fields - so I don't know where the disconnect is??  I would post a screen shot but don't know how....

[Alex B]

I think I have found a reason for this behavior. When JRiver changed from a proprietary tag to POPM ID3v2.3 field the main goal was to make it compatible with Windows Media Player because many new MC users have used WMP previously. WMP10 was the official WMP version back then and the POPM ratings were transferred fine in both directions.

It looks like Microsoft has slightly changed the used format in WMP11 and possibly the Tag & Rename developer has more or less adopted the same changes.

I created a few small test files and rated them with these three programs. After tagging I checked the tags with Mp3tag. Here is what I found out and links to my test files:

Tagged by MC12



MC12 added a tag that is displayed as POPULARIMETER.

the test file: MC12.mp3


Tagged by Tag & Rename



T&R added two tags, displayed as RATING WMP and COMMENT_MUSICMATCH_PREFERENCE.

the test file: TagAndRename.mp3


Tagged by WMP11



WMP added one tag, displayed as RATING WMP.

the test file: WMP11.mp3


Tagged by MC12 and Tag & Rename



All three different rating tags are shown.

the test file: MC12_and_TagAndRename.mp3


It is up to JRiver to decide if the behavior should be changed.

[Alex B]

I noticed that the RATING WMP tag has oddly different values: 4 and 137. Possibly I rated the files differently or then also Tag & Rename and WMP11 has compatibility problems.

However, I am not going to test this any further. Personally I don't save the ratings to the file tags and I have more important things to do.