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Author Topic: OT: LCD on 24/7?  (Read 3210 times)

benn600

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OT: LCD on 24/7?
« on: May 19, 2007, 11:59:46 pm »

I just got KIP setup in here.  It stands for Kitchen Information Portal.  I basically combined all the common things that we need to know/see into an easy to use interface using Macro Express.  Essentially, users use Alt + letter commands to do various things...at the moment, I provide 3 security cameras, weather radar (with loop on command), clock, calendar, calendar of events (colored for each person), soon to have dictionary lookup, and may add name/email/phone lookup.

I made a simple key that is attached to the right bezel of the 17" 1280x1024 LCD.  18 commands so far ranging from creating new events for each of 6 calendars, selecting a camera to view (or all at once), etc.  I must say that it has turned out quite impressive and useful.

Now to the real question.  What are the issues with leaving an LCD on 24/7?  Surprisingly enough, I have the entire computer/monitor on a battery backup--and I also have every camera/switch/etc on them so everything will stay up in a power outage..for 20 minutes or so.  Therefore, it really could be 24/7.

1) There is NO burn in issue, is there?  Some sites were saying there is but I've always heard LCD's do not have any issues.
2) I've heard the lamp is stressed when left on all the time...is it?  What happens when the lamp dies (or dims)?
3) Yes, I'd like to have it shut the monitor off after a period but something is stopping that from happening.  I really think it's the security camera software...and it is always recording so the hard drive is always on (no big deal there).
4) Anyone else working on a similar device?  Any suggestions for things to add?  I am considering adding news but my big issue is that every square pixel is pretty much taken by info.  The calendar takes almost half the screen with the cameras taking about 1/4.  Radar and other smaller info take the rest.
5) One feature I desperately want is a simple IMAP email checker that sounds a unique sound for each account when a new message arrives--and shows a count of messages.  I am using Yahoo Widgets to get a lot of the functionality I have and they have email checkers but the one I tried didn't work (lol).  This is a vital and very useful feature.  I don't want any real email access-just a message count.
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Mastiff

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2007, 05:32:53 am »

1. No.
2. You buy a new LCD. But I have never seen it happen.
5. You could probably do that with Girder.
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benn600

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2007, 07:47:24 am »

2. Me neither.  LCDs are generally rated for 60,000 hours which is over 6 years of constant usage.  I'd be happy with that usage.  I also read somewhere that at that time, it may only be dimmer and not just burn out.  I also saw that turning it on and off can do some damage as well.
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glynor

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 10:22:49 am »

We're building a new multi-panel video display wall at my office, and I put quite a bit of research into LCD panel technology -- with an eye to long term constant usage.

1. Burn-in is a bit of an issue, but not a horribly serious one.  LCD panels will "burn-in" but the effect is temporary.  Basically, any time you put up any constant, non-changing image on an LCD screen, it starts developing a "memory" of that image.  This memory will cause the image to remain up on the display even after the image is supposed to be gone (burn-in).  However, unlike CRT burn-in, this memory doesn't last forever, but fades over time.  The length of time this takes is directly related to how long the image was originally actively displayed on the screen.  So, if your system is going to be displaying one static image all the time, you might end up with some "burn-in" but it won't be permanent (but you still might want to look into turning on a screen saver type feature).  I should note though that even with very extended static image displays, the "fade time" is really quick.  I'm just noting that it is different when you might leave the same image on the screen for 1-2 years constantly (or nearly constantly).

2.  Backlights and length the displays last.  LCDs are lit from behind with a florescent tube lamp.  Like any florescent tube bulb, the first time you turn it on, it starts slowly becoming dimmer and dimmer over time until it eventually burns out.

The backlights used in LCD displays currently are generally rated for roughly 6 years of use before they reach 1/2 their original brightness.  Some lamps are specifically "built" for more constant use, and some are "built" for more on-off sporadic use.  However, this is mostly marketing, and both types of back-lights generally "last" almost the same lengths of time (the constant rated ones have different "aging-brightness curves" than the others).  So, that 6 year mark is when the display will still work, but it will have become so dim that it may not work well anymore, but it will have happened slowly over time.  Of course, there are still occasionally "catastrophic burn outs" but these are generally rare.  So, shutting down the panel would certainly help save some power (and would help cut your carbon footprint), but it won't make much more than a few month difference in the active-use life of your display (of course, if it's on when you're not using it, then it's using up those hours and if you have it off when not in use, then that 6 years could stretch out for much longer).

While it is certainly technically possible to replace the backlight in a LCD display, it is not typically financially beneficial to do so, because of the swift change in the LCD display market (and the high cost of the repair).

LCD technology is moving now to replace the tube bulbs in the displays with LED backlights.  This is beneficial for a number of reasons.  One problem with florescent backlights is that it is difficult to evenly diffuse the light behind the screen, so that the pixel in the top left corner of the screen is the same brightness as the pixel in the dead center.  This also evolves over time (which is why even though the bulb isn't burnt out after 6 years, you might not want to use it anymore, because it will be brighter in the center than around the edges).  LED lighting is much more efficient, long lasting, and even (you just have a big panel of those little LED lights behind the whole screen).  LED panels can be rated for much longer periods of time (10-20 years probably won't be uncommon), will use far less power, and because the light can go all the way to the edge of the panel evenly, the LCD panels will be able to be "bezel-less" (no edging on the panel at all).

LED LCD panels are just over the horizon (Apple is shipping their laptops with them very soon).  Expect that this time next year, almost all "new" LCD panels will be LED backlit.

5.  Yeah, Girder can do that.
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benn600

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 07:08:22 pm »

Thanks for all the info, that definitely helps support and disprove some things I've read.  I've got to say that 6 years is a long time.  To put this in perspective, here are my major 3 LCD purchases, each separates by LITERALLY (and coincidentally) 14 months (+- like 1 week!!)  I just happened to buy these monitors with the same distance each...All Samsung.

19" ... first LCD in this household, $700
21" ... another great panel, $550
20" ... much worse than first two, $300

So as you can see, prices are coming way down.  The third panel (got two of them) is no where near the quality of the first two.  My 21" panel is really the best LCD I have ever seen.  The third ones have horrible contrast/brightness settings that can't seem to be set right...they don't even show a lot of the even/odd color changes on program lines of text.  Some tweaking help but they don't come close to the other ones.

This particular monitor I'm using is 2 years old but was only used for one of those 2 years.  So, probably 5 years left.  I really think in 5 years I'll be ready to replace it and if prices keep coming down (lol, if) then a 17" monitor will be in every cereal box.  And by then I'll want the LED backlit models.

I have a great idea!  Since I use Macro Express to accept input commands (Alt+A for example), I'll just use it with scheduled events that will open up a program I have that shows full screen colors.  It can show full screen colors from 3-4 AM.  I will see if I can have it shut the monitor off, which would be even better.

Great info!  Thanks!

...what is Girder ?
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hit_ny

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 01:15:22 am »

Nice info there glynor,i think i'll defer my purchase till its LED backlit.

There's a few choices available. Each with their own pros & cons. The S-IPS ones look the best currently, but its still evloving with new hybrids every year.
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benn600

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 01:53:07 pm »

It's difficult to understand how monitors today offer such low resolutions.  I commonly see 1440x900 or so (is it 960...?)  My monitors are mostly 1600x1200 so right there, that is a huge width drop and the height is even worse since it's widescreen.
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glynor

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 02:49:22 pm »

My MacBook Pro's screen is 1440x960.  Of course, it's only a 15" widescreen monitor, so that resolution is just fine.  The new Samsung I just bought is a full 1080p monitor 1920x1080/1200 (depending on which input you use).

The biggest problem is that it's hard for them to manufacture smaller displays with higher pixel densities.  That's one reason why a 1080p 40" Bravia XBR LCD panel lists for $2700, but a 26" Panasonic Production LCD monitor lists for $4950 and it's native resolution is only 1366x768.  Of course, the Panasonic monitor is much more adept at handling a wide variety of inputs (adding a SDI input adds literally $1000 to the price of any monitor), video formats (it handles NTSC and PAL in all the different flavors), and it has "real" color reproduction (no dithering or other tricks to make it look like a 6-bit display is really a 8-bit one), balanced to emulate CRT display, and so on and so forth.

I'm looking forward to the new Samsung monitor though... Just ordered it today!
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jgreen

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 03:10:21 pm »

Since we're dragging this all over the OT universe, a quick question of Glynor, et al.  I think that 17" is as large a notebook as I can lug around, barely.  I'm happy with my current 1440x900, although I'm coveting the ~1600x? for my next one.  However, I love the dual mon setup I do using a 17" LCD.  Unfortunately, the aspect ratio is pre-Magna Carta, something-by-something-else, shaped like a square.  I could look at the desktop prefs but I'm too lazy.

At any rate, this makes for some hilarious antics dragging the cursor acrosss LCD line 1280 or something towards my notebook mon with a top line of 900--I tell you, the laughs never end!  So I'm looking for a new LCD, 1440x900 or similar, o-n-l-y--

I want it as thin as and the same shape as my notebook LCD.  I want to stack it on top of my notebook and lug it, possibly with its own folding stand.  Anything such out there? 
 
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glynor

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 03:18:23 pm »

It's going to be very difficult to find a 17" 1440x900 LCD panel.  The pixel density in current LCD panels makes that resolution typically 19" widescreen sized.

A potentially better option might be to look at one of those cool Matrox multi-display hoobie-joobies and buy two monitors.  Failing that, this particular monitor looks interesting for it's foldable qualities:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824222028

No idea about the display itself, though the NewEgg purchasers seem happy.  It does look a bit thick in the pictures though.  I, personally, tend to like Samsung and NEC monitors, but to each his own.  Here's a nice samsung in that range: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001094
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jgreen

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 04:24:45 pm »

These are great looking monitors and dirt-cheap!  I particularly like the Samsung--that's what I'm using now and I'm fairly happy with it.  Nice and contrasty, and as bright as you're going to get without spending money.  Plus, it's certified for Windows Vista, so that's a load off my mind.

But what I'm really pining for is basically the top half of a laptop, the display.  Where does those come from, and can they be bought after-market?
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benn600

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Re: OT: LCD on 24/7?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2007, 04:48:50 pm »

I had an HP laptop, 15.5" LCD at 1920x1200.  I absolutely LOVED that screen.  No one else could read it but I had no trouble at all--and I don't wear glasses.  I could fit two full Word document pages on the screen side by side.  For now, I'm satisfied with my two 1600x1200 monitors but those extra width pixels to get 1920 would be nice.

I plan on waiting for the LED backlight models...and my 14 month buying stretch won't be valid for 5 more months or so.  I can't break that coincidental 14 month gap between my 1,2,3 monitors.
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