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[Matt]

In the recent Theater View thread that turned south, one idea came up that seemed interesting to me.

It was suggested that navigation with a single column might work fine.

I made a skin to demonstrate this (easy with the new XML):
http://tinyurl.com/2djyfw

I like that it gives more space for content, and simplifies navigation.  It also just passed the wife test.  Right goes in a level, left goes out a level, enter shows actions.

Search and controls would become root items (or options in the single column).

Anyone have an opinion?

[raym]

It certainly looks good - I've always liked the fullscreen approach in principle. I might try this myself first before I pass more judgement. (The new xml capabilities are fantastic by the way!)

This layout implies you can make your view preferences thru some other means? The views button is just about the only thing I think I'd miss from the exisitng nav column, but for me, this is a one time setup activity - after this, I only use it for occassionally toggling thumbs and list views. 

I'll mess with it and report back...

[MrHaugen]

It looks really nice. I also like the full screen approach. Just let's hope it doesn't loose to much functionality.
One other thing while we are talking about full screen. I can't belive there are no longer a way of removing the bottom half part of theater view that shows cover art, track info etc. If this possiblility have been removed. WHY? It breaks my heart.

Over to the real discussion again. This means there could bee two different Theater View skins available, or does one of them have to go? Are the menus (after selecting album track etc.) also skinnable?

[lalittle]

Based on the pictures, here are my immediate thoughts.

- How do you get to Playing Now after playing a selection?  Without the little side column, do you have to navigate all the way back to the home menu?  This seems rather unfriendly to me.

- When on the PN screen, how do you see what album/artist is playing if there is no cover art, or if the cover art doesn't include the title? 

- There is a tremendous amount of wasted space around the cover art (this actually applies to any Theater View skin.)

- I've always felt that the Artist/Album should be visible in a manner other than as a "path" at the top of the screen, which is not very elegant or artistic (also applies to all Theater View skins.)

Thanks,

Larry

[gappie]

It looks really nice. I also like the full screen approach. Just let's hope it doesn't loose to much functionality.
One other thing while we are talking about full screen. I can't belive there are no longer a way of removing the bottom half part of theater view that shows cover art, track info etc. If this possiblility have been removed. WHY? It breaks my heart.

the example matt gives is in the new beta's starting from 252. there it is possible again to remove the bottom haf part from playing, the pip (or make it the upperhalf part and more).  

[MrHaugen]

Based on the pictures, here are my immediate thoughts.
- How do you get to Playing Now after playing a selection?  Without the little side column, do you have to navigate all the way back to the home menu?  This seems rather unfriendly to me.

I wote for a Jump to Playing Now in the option menu to enable this. Otherwise, as you said, there would be alot of left navigation.

- When on the PN screen, how do you see what album/artist is playing if there is no cover art, or if the cover art doesn't include the title? 

I mentioned this before as well. A cover aret is nice, but some title/artist info would be welcome.

- There is a tremendous amount of wasted space around the cover art (this actually applies to any Theater View skin.)

You are right, but you can fill this space with other things like track info. The current ones match the Noire skin badly, so I have to make my own one, but that will take time. As gappie mentioned in the last post, there should be possible to remove the bottom half and fill the screen completly. I jull research this further when I have set up my new C2D machine.

- I've always felt that the Artist/Album should be visible in a manner other than as a "path" at the top of the screen, which is not very elegant or artistic (also applies to all Theater View skins.)

Totally agree with you here as well. It's not very elegant, no.

Nice points lalittle. Looks like we think much alike 

[park]

I really like the idea. If there were a line of icons at the top of each view (showing Playing now, Views, Home) Then we could easily navigate away from it just by pressing "down" once. Plus we'd be able to navigate backwards and forwards using just a single click for both "left" and "right".

One little extra I would add:
Put a right arrow with the word "Show" underneath it at the far right of the selected list entry, and a left arrow with "Back" written under it at the far left. Then people will see visually how they are supposed to navigate too.

[Doof]

I know this wouldn't help touchscreen users much (but then they can always use a skin that includes the command buttons), but would it be possible for remote users to program a button on their remote to bring up the command buttons? So they could be hidden when we don't need them, which is most of the time, but then a simple press of the "menu" button shows them again?

[glynor]

My main concern is that for novice users it might be very difficult to understand how to do simple things, like Page Up/Down or Jump to Playing now.  There needs to be a way to effectively control it with a mouse (or touchscreen) only.  I'm a nerd and I do have a mouse on my coffee table.  And I'll tell you... At my house, "they" tend to grab the mouse first.

For me... I have buttons on my remote that provide much of that functionality.  For example, I have a button that jumps to Playing Now, which works fine from both Standard or Theater View.  However, because my remote wasn't designed specifically for MC (wouldn't that be something), it's labeled "B" (as in A, B, C, D).

I also think you NEED the controls buttons in Playing Now.  Somehow.  I don't care if they're on the left or hidden somehow as long as it's clear and easy to understand how to bring them up.

Otherwise... It certainly does look slicker that way.  If you can find a way to make it work, then I say more power to you.

EDIT - Hmmm... It seems, after reading more carefully, that this is a skin only change.  In that case... I have absolutely no objections.  Fantastic.

[Matt]

EDIT - Hmmm... It seems, after reading more carefully, that this is a skin only change.  In that case... I have absolutely no objections.  Fantastic.

To do it right would require more changes.

For example, adding an easy way to go back for mouse and touch-screen users.

Also, making "Controls" and "Search" available.

[Osho]

I like this new fullscreen view a lot. No need of having the left  column of buttons. Awesome.

About the lack of functionality due to this, I have a proposal. How about a Menu button bringing up this column of buttons on the left. When I press Menu button, I will see whatever is displayed is greyed out and the regular menus (Search, Playing Now etc. etc.) will come up in the center (similar to the pop-up we get when we click on Views currently). If it is done right (proper fading in/out of greying of the background) - it may look sleek. If you wanna get fancy the menu can zoom in from left side and come to center

Osho

[Osho]

For example, adding an easy way to go back for mouse and touch-screen users.

For this I propose a Left arrow graphic at Upper left corner to go back - just where you see Home right now. Home would be written a little right.

Osho

[glynor]

About the lack of functionality due to this, I have a proposal. How about a Menu button bringing up this column of buttons on the left. When I press Menu button, I will see whatever is displayed is greyed out and the regular menus (Search, Playing Now etc. etc.) will come up in the center (similar to the pop-up we get when we click on Views currently). If it is done right (proper fading in/out of greying of the background) - it may look sleek. If you wanna get fancy the menu can zoom in from left side and come to center

Oooh... This is a very cool idea.  I particularly like the idea of still having it slide out from the left, while graying out the rest of the screen (to make it clear where the focus is).  I would keep it on the left and just move the rest of the stuff over -- similar to the way it is now in the end result, not centered.  All in all though, that idea is just plain fantastic.

And if you made it so you could show this menu in a few ways, it would even work for touchscreen/mouse users:

1. Left menu (or whatever) appears when you hit the special Menu keyboard key (M maybe) or send the appropriate MCC command.
2. Simply hover the mouse pointer over towards the left of the screen.  You could make a subtle left edge area (which could maybe dual-purpose as the "teach them about left/right navigation" visual aid) that when you hover over or click on it "flys out" into the menu.
3. Provide some intuitive way (a "keep here" checkbox or button) that "stickies" the menu.  Some people are going to want it popped out all the time (zooming in and out drives some people nuts), so you're going to want to be able to stick it there (ala the sidebar in Outlook).

[mojave]

Glynor, your idea is similar to Theatertek. Theatertek uses the up button/key to allow a menu bar to fade in at the top of the screen. Using the down button/key brings up the time bar at the bottom of the screen. You can also hover the mouse over this area to cause the menu/time bar to appear. Once you are in the menu or time bar, the left and right buttons switch to the different actions or move your forward or backward in the song/movie. This type of menu/time bar would be awesome for Theater View (especially the Playing Now screen) and you wouldn't need Display View.

Theatertek also provides the following options for the bars so that they can be customized:

1.  Scaling [%]
2.  Top Bar Offset [%] (this is the percent down from the top of the screen)
3.  Time Bar Offset [%] (this is the percent down from the bottom of the screen)
4.  Transluscency [%]
5.  OSD delay [sec] (this determines how long the menu/time bar stays on the screen after the last button is pushed)
6.  Show time [elapsed or current] (The time bar will indicate the current position of a song/movie in relation to the whole song/movie. It will also show a time readout. This time can be either elapsed time or the actual time of day. The time of day is helpful because you can push the down button while watching a movie and see how late you are staying up watching a movie.)

In the picture below, I have overlayed three screenshots so you can see both top and bottom items at the same time on top of Theater View. The top menu is what shows up after I clicked "Control" as a menu item. In Theater View, you could have the following buttons at the top menu:  Home, Search, Views, Playing Now, Controls.

[Osho]

Glynor, your idea is similar to Theatertek. Theatertek uses the up button/key to allow a menu bar to fade in at the top of the screen. Using the down button/key brings up the time bar at the bottom of the screen. You can also hover the mouse over this area to cause the menu/time bar to appear. Once you are in the menu or time bar, the left and right buttons switch to the different actions or move your forward or backward in the song/movie. This type of menu/time bar would be awesome for Theater View (especially the Playing Now screen) and you wouldn't need Display View.

I really like the idea of Theatertek like controls/seek position fading in/out (like in your screen shot). But I disagree that you wouldn't need Display View. How will I watch Videos in fullscreen without Display View? What if I want to see G-force visualization full screen for audio tracks?

Theatertek also provides the following options for the bars so that they can be customized:

1.  Scaling [%]
2.  Top Bar Offset [%] (this is the percent down from the top of the screen)
3.  Time Bar Offset [%] (this is the percent down from the bottom of the screen)
4.  Transluscency [%]
5.  OSD delay [sec] (this determines how long the menu/time bar stays on the screen after the last button is pushed)
6.  Show time [elapsed or current] (The time bar will indicate the current position of a song/movie in relation to the whole song/movie. It will also show a time readout. This time can be either elapsed time or the actual time of day. The time of day is helpful because you can push the down button while watching a movie and see how late you are staying up watching a movie.)

In the picture below, I have overlayed three screenshots so you can see both top and bottom items at the same time on top of Theater View. The top menu is what shows up after I clicked "Control" as a menu item. In Theater View, you could have the following buttons at the top menu:  Home, Search, Views, Playing Now, Controls.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1147/536050538_d0e240f70b_o_d.jpg

I like this idea a lot. In Theater View, a bar with "Home/Search/Views/Playing Now/Controls" (either vertical or horizontal) would be great. And, I would like to see the theater-tek like play controls/seek position bars in Display View and Theater View->Playing Now screen.

Osho

[mojave]

I really like the idea of Theatertek like controls/seek position fading in/out (like in your screen shot). But I disagree that you wouldn't need Display View. How will I watch Videos in fullscreen without Display View? What if I want to see G-force visualization full screen for audio tracks?

What I meant was that the fullscreen view would be part of Theater View. However, the menu and time bar could fade in and out like in Theatertek (this is why I use Theatertek to view my movies). The fullscreen view could show the movie or visualizations. The menu or time bar could be on every page of Theater View making it elegant and simple. If there was a Theater View fullscreen, then Display View wouldn't be needed. I think of Display View more of a fullscreen view for Standard View since it really isn't a 10ft interface.

Right now when I click "play" on a movie, the movie launches and Theatertek takes focus. My remote continues to work perfectly and I can enjoy the movie with the Theatertek inferface. When the movie is over, Theatertek closes and Theater View takes focus again. You really can't even tell that a separate program has launched.

[Osho]

What I meant was that the fullscreen view would be part of Theater View. However, the menu and time bar could fade in and out like in Theatertek (this is why I use Theatertek to view my movies). The fullscreen view could show the movie or visualizations. The menu or time bar could be on every page of Theater View making it elegant and simple. If there was a Theater View fullscreen, then Display View wouldn't be needed. I think of Display View more of a fullscreen view for Standard View since it really isn't a 10ft interface.

I see what you are saying. I agree 100%. I have asked for something very much like this previously. We need a fullscreen view (different from Display View) in which there are no right click menus, there is no small text that you can't read from 10' distance and there is nothing that cannot be done with remote. In such a view, all information (playback controls, seek bar, track info) would appear in big letters (i.e. readable from 10' distance) - overlayed on top of whatever is being played on (fullscreen video, image or visualization). All user actions (Play, Pause etc.) produce feedback via OSD or change in the controls/seek bar display. I think the current Theater View -> Playing Now screen should be replaced with a fullscreen view like this.

Osho

[maxxsid]

That would be sooo nice!

Oooh... This is a very cool idea. 

[cncb]

I am interested in the one-column navigation style.  Is this ever going to come to light?