Topic: Cover art shrinkage option for handheld (Read 4863 times)

eCo · « **on:** July 20, 2007, 07:11:26 pm »

I've got a Sansa e270 and for now, at least, it won't support cover art over 32 kB. About half my covers are bigger than that, and I like it that way for clear viewing in MC12, as well as my Slimserver. I currently transcode from FLAC to WMA for loading the Sansa, and getting the cover art to display on the handheld is hit or miss depending upon the size. Is there a way to get MC12 to shrink those covers when loading the player that I've missed? If not, I'll go recommend this feature for a future release.

Thanks!

eCo

benn600 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2007, 11:23:58 pm »

This is amazing. There is now a second person who has a truly valid reason for requesting something I've been DYING to have. I thoroughly support requesting this feature with every one of my request coupons!

I personally would like a resize to 320x320 feature but I'm horribly afraid this would create greater than 32 KB files. PLEASE oh PLEASE add two sizes...perhaps a 160x160 and a 320x320...maybe in a drop down box. If you really wanted to handle this feature, add a Custom Size option--like you recently did for image conversion.

Downsize Oversized Cover Art
160x160
320x320
Custom Size

THANK YOU eCo!!! NOW I MAY HAVE A CHANCE!

eCo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2007, 09:35:48 am »

^bump^

So can someone confirm cover art shrinkage is not currently possible?

Thx -

eCo

KingSparta · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2007, 01:16:21 pm »

confirmed

Not a bad idea...

But is this really a big deal for most handhelds?

more and more each year the memory increases for most handheld

benn600 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2007, 01:21:20 pm »

Yea, but as eCo stated, the Sansa doesn't work at all. This feature request is very necessary for the Sansa and I greatly need this feature because I store high resolution cover art and it eats up an unnecessary 2GB of storage...yuck on a portable device with 8GB! Yea, if I had 80 GB on my iphone, SURE, I'd be fine with it. Unfortunately, I could really use those wasted 2 GB!

PLEASE...THREE people want this feature!

RFB · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2007, 02:35:59 pm »

I'm gonna have to chime in and request this feature, too. Right now I resize album art to 200 X 200 (using Picasa) to get it under 32kb for my Sansa e280 and then embed, but if MC resized automatically during transfer that would truly be useful.

My iPod doesn't have this limitation, but I'm still constrained 'cause I want album art on my Sansa, too.

Rick

eCo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2007, 04:28:06 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 23, 2007, 01:16:21 pm

But is this really a big deal for most handhelds?
more and more each year the memory increases for most handheld

It's not a memory issue so much as a firmware issue. I have plenty of memory, but cover art files over 32k won't display. They may "fix" this in a future release, but it would still be useful to keep memory usage by cover art to a minimum on the handhelds. Especially when small displays can't make use of the extra resolution anyway...

Thanks for the confirm.

eCo

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2007, 04:54:27 pm »

When using MTP (aka WMDM) to talk to the device, MC already caps the cover art at 128x128.

This is because even fairly new devices (Creative Vision M, Clix, etc.) can only support small art.

So try using WMDM if you're having the problem. (Options > Handheld > Files & Paths)

benn600 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2007, 10:09:37 pm »

I don't see that option under Files & Paths. However, I am syncing to a folder > which then is synced to my iPhone from iTunes.

Even if it did work an magically capped cover art at 128x128, that's dreaded! My iPhone supports 320x320 pixel cover art! Why would I want to live with horribly small cover art after I went to the effort of capturing the ultimate quality by hand scanning everything.

Plus, other devices have other desired cover art sizes. Some devices may work perfectly fine with a pinpoint 64x64...like the iPod when not showing the cover art full screen. And in that case, why not save an extra 20 KB per song? That could end up giving you an extra 15 songs just by saving that little extra space beyond the built-in abilities of MC!

It appears that we now have four separate users requesting this feature for different reasons. In the simplest format to clean up the UI required for this feature, just add a Custom size field for the size. Don't even bother with ready made sizes because then you have to add a drop down.

Is there a problem? Is some major issue holding this reasonably requested feature back? I've been begging for it for months.

eCo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2007, 10:33:49 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 23, 2007, 04:54:27 pm

When using MTP (aka WMDM) to talk to the device, MC already caps the cover art at 128x128.

By "cap", do you mean it doesn't load it, or it resizes it?

The Sansa can be set for MTP or MSC. I've been using MTP all along. My library is in FLAC, but I transcode to WMA for loading the Sansa. Cover art is in the audio directory in the main library as folder.jpg. MC is also set to incorporate the cover art in the file (File Location > Cover Art > Also store art in ... tag). MC12 recognizes the Sansa in MTP mode and loads it up fine. To explore this problem, I switched the Sansa to MSC mode and browsed with explorer to see what was happening to the folder.jpg.

The audio files are in their respective directories as set up. There are no folder.jpg files. The cover art is all embedded in the file tags (which must happen during transcoding) and Sansa must be getting it from there (Sansa can get the art from either the file tag, or the directory).

The art in the tags, tho, are not 128x128 as you suggested. They are exactly the same as the folder.jpg file in the original library. I looked at a file where the art actually appeared in the Sansa display and it was 300x300 and 29KB. This is contrasted with a second file from another album that was 455x455 and 42 KB. Only the former cover art shows up in the Sansa display because of the 32KB limit I mentioned above. And obviously, neither are 128x128.

So is something not working correctly on the Sansa? ?

eCo

benn600 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2007, 09:55:20 am »

Wow. Excellent reply!

Quote

By "cap", do you mean it doesn't load it, or it resizes it?

Very good question.

Quote

The art in the tags, tho, are not 128x128 as you suggested. They are exactly the same as the folder.jpg file in the original library. I looked at a file where the art actually appeared in the Sansa display and it was 300x300 and 29KB. This is contrasted with a second file from another album that was 455x455 and 42 KB. Only the former cover art shows up in the Sansa display because of the 32KB limit I mentioned above. And obviously, neither are 128x128.

lol. Neither are 128x128.

Perhaps a temporary storage buffer needs to be used to resize the cover art and then send it to the LAME encoder. If LAME finds the cover art from the cover art tag, then simply re-set it on the fly to the new, temporary J River location...so resize cover art, place in temp folder, possibly even create another temp file (the FLAC file) with the fixed cover art field. It's worth the extra time and complexity to get the cover art resized.

We're Desperate (I am)

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2007, 10:03:19 am »

Quote from: eCo on July 23, 2007, 10:33:49 pm

By "cap", do you mean it doesn't load it, or it resizes it?

The Sansa can be set for MTP or MSC. I've been using MTP all along. My library is in FLAC, but I transcode to WMA for loading the Sansa. Cover art is in the audio directory in the main library as folder.jpg. MC is also set to incorporate the cover art in the file (File Location > Cover Art > Also store art in ... tag). MC12 recognizes the Sansa in MTP mode and loads it up fine. To explore this problem, I switched the Sansa to MSC mode and browsed with explorer to see what was happening to the folder.jpg.

The audio files are in their respective directories as set up. There are no folder.jpg files. The cover art is all embedded in the file tags (which must happen during transcoding) and Sansa must be getting it from there (Sansa can get the art from either the file tag, or the directory).

The art in the tags, tho, are not 128x128 as you suggested. They are exactly the same as the folder.jpg file in the original library. I looked at a file where the art actually appeared in the Sansa display and it was 300x300 and 29KB. This is contrasted with a second file from another album that was 455x455 and 42 KB. Only the former cover art shows up in the Sansa display because of the 32KB limit I mentioned above. And obviously, neither are 128x128.

So is something not working correctly on the Sansa? ?

eCo

The art saved in the file is not resized.

The art saved to the .alb file on the device is resized, which is what most devices load the art from.

I'm not certain about the Sansa.

benn600 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2007, 10:30:51 am »

So if users are just saving the cover art inside the mp3 files like on many devices, ... please add this feature!

eCo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2007, 11:04:24 am »

Quote from: Matt on July 24, 2007, 10:03:19 am

The art saved to the .alb file on the device is resized, which is what most devices load the art from.
I'm not certain about the Sansa.

Yeah, I saw the .alb files, but they're 2k in size or less on the Sansa. I'm not sure if Sansa is designed to pick up art from that file or not, but MC12 is clearly not putting the art there. Does the Sansa firmware regulate the .alb files' content, perhaps?

I guess there's nothing to do for it, but resize all my art - which as I said, won't happen.

Thanks for your time, Matt.

Benn, you might try cutting back on the caffeine.

eCo

benn600 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2007, 11:51:48 pm »

I also have a Sony Reader, which supports audio. It doesn't display the cover art and I'm thinking that's because it's too large. It does display smaller cover art and looks quite nice on such a large screen--even though in shades of black.

benn600 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2007, 10:10:57 pm »

RFB · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2007, 03:41:56 am »

I'm pretty sure the Sansa series doesn't support .alb files. What it does support is either art embedded in the music files (under 32kb), or art in the directory as folder.jpg.

Rick

benn600 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2007, 09:33:38 am »

I believe that MC simply adds the folder.jpg file directly to the converted mp3 files. MC just needs to intercept the LAME encoder and send LAME a resized cover art file instead of the full resolution file.

I'm surprised, now that we have several people with specific varying issues, that we aren't getting more attention.

You know, I had a tricky way of accomplishing this way back with MC 11. MC would not copy cover art ever so I created this complicated playlist that would gather the songs I wanted + pull the cover art once for each album. Then, I setup the image syncing to send the folder.jpg files to the same folder as the music (it uses the folder.jpg method). It was a way for me to get cover art synced.

Anyway, now I get an error message saying MC can't copy the files--i've posted about it before. The POINT is that if it would work, then once the cover art is treated as images (like I had it), users could utilize the MC 12 feature of resizing the images, as the IMAGES converter does allow any arbitrary image size.

benn600 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2007, 08:40:09 am »

Could we please get a status update--especially detailing the technical issue being run into? If there is a valid reason for not adding this feature, I completely understand. I'm just not sure what is going on or if us four interested have a chance.

benn600 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2007, 09:11:58 am »

What if the handheld image conversion selector: the one with 320x240, 640x480, and Custom--applied to cover art. This seems logical, doesn't it? Technically cover art is an image. Plus, if a user selects a size based on the resolution of their device then they probably will have similar or identical resolution requirements for both cover art and regular images.

SwellGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:59:57 pm »

There will be some additional cover art options in tonights build.

1) When you convert the files during transfer you can specify if you want to leave cover art as is, include it in the tag of the new file or remove it from the tag of the new file.

2) You can specify that the cover art is to be saved in a Folder.jpg file on the device.

Note: Resizing has not been addressed.

JONCAT · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2007, 09:31:39 pm »

Most *people* are trying to prevent shrinkage...

DC

benn600 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2007, 08:57:17 am »

That's a great first step. Now I can convert my collection and see how much space would be saved by comparing the two.

eCo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2007, 09:03:14 am »

Quote from: SwellGuy on August 01, 2007, 03:59:57 pm

There will be some additional cover art options in tonights build.

1) When you convert the files during transfer you can specify if you want to leave cover art as is, include it in the tag of the new file or remove it from the tag of the new file.

2) You can specify that the cover art is to be saved in a Folder.jpg file on the device.

Note: Resizing has not been addressed.

Those are very welcome options, and I appreciate all that effort. Yet I fear the resizing issue is still the only thing standing in the way of consistent cover art display in the Sansa e200 series, and a few other players as well.

Are there any plans to implement resizing in the future?

eCo

benn600 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2007, 10:45:12 am »

Quote

Note: Resizing has not been addressed.

At least there is clarity in this picture.

Those are great additions and I wonder if they are some of the step toward adding cover art resizing. I understand that features take time and discussion so perhaps we should wait a short while.

I must say that if you do add cover art resizing like we're hoping for, I hope you release that installer version asap so I can use it. The first thing I'm going to do is re-convert my ~1500 songs to import into itunes and copy to my iPhone. I am right at the limit space wise right now. So I'm losing ~2GB of space from cover art.

And you'll get the nice benefit of consistent cover art display.

skeeterfood · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2007, 01:53:54 pm »

Quote from: SwellGuy on August 01, 2007, 03:59:57 pm

There will be some additional cover art options in tonights build.

1) When you convert the files during transfer you can specify if you want to leave cover art as is, include it in the tag of the new file or remove it from the tag of the new file.

2) You can specify that the cover art is to be saved in a Folder.jpg file on the device.

Sorry to sidetrack things here, but is there any chance you can add a way to pull the cover art out of files and store it as Folder.jpg without having to convert the files? Seems like most of the infrastructure is there now with these updates.

Currently I have to:
1) Select an album
2) Right-Click Cover Art->Copy to Clipboard (first file)
3) Right-Click Cover Art->Remove Cover Art
4) Right-Click Cover Art->Paste From Clipboard (Image or URL)
5) Repeat...

-John

benn600 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2007, 06:16:13 pm »

How did you get the cover art originally? What if you just did the auto pull from the internet? If you have better quality cover art personally in the files then that would be a bad idea, though.

skeeterfood · « **Reply #27 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:12:25 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on August 06, 2007, 06:16:13 pm

How did you get the cover art originally? What if you just did the auto pull from the internet? If you have better quality cover art personally in the files then that would be a bad idea, though.

It's music "rented" from Yahoo Music. So, the wma's usually come with fairly small (~160x160) cover art embedded. I could just remove all the cover art a do a "Get from Internet...", but I'm afraid how many albums would end up with no cover art. I'd rather be stuck with small cover art while I'm going through and replacing it with 500x500 cover art than nothing...

-John

benn600 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:17:53 pm »

That seems somewhat unrelated to our topic. However, I am always appreciative when threads that benefit me are kept high on the category listing so post away!

So is that an all-you-can-eat service? When you stop paying you have nothing?

benn600 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:30:39 pm »

I'm very impressed. The cover art drop down is perfect for adding this feature to! You're so close to bliss for my syncing...

Unfortunately, I can't help but think that if you add the shrinkage feature, I'll just move on to another feature request--but this is definitely a big one. There just isn't ever "enough" for a feature set! There is always ideas and bugs to work out!

I think that a resize to Custom size is enough. Why bother with listing more sizes? But please add a Custom so everyone will be happy rather than picking 2 arbitrary sizes...

I'll hope for the best! (this feature!)

eCo · « **Reply #30 on:** August 21, 2007, 08:54:28 am »

Are we any closer to this feature yet?

eCo

Robert Joe · « **Reply #31 on:** January 06, 2008, 07:22:56 pm »

Any status update on this feature?

SwellGuy · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:29:17 am »

It's on the to-do list.

benn600 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2008, 11:10:06 am »

Now can you get a better response than that? I think not.

skeeterfood · « **Reply #34 on:** June 09, 2008, 03:28:48 pm »

Since this is on the "to-do" I just thought I'd try and bump it up the list a bit

-John

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Author Topic: Cover art shrinkage option for handheld (Read 4863 times)

SwellGuy

JONCAT

SwellGuy