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[Doof]

3. Changed: Lasso list selection is done with the right-mouse button.

I'm not usually very critical of you guys, but this is a really horrible idea. Bucking standards is never a good thing.

[Matt]

I'm not usually very critical of you guys, but this is a really horrible idea. Bucking standards is never a good thing.

iTunes doesn't even have a lasso.  There's a reason.  (see the discussion thread)

[datdude]

I think the lasso right click is a great idea.  One bug I am noticing is with panes.  The right click menu still pulls up even when lassoing.

[datdude]

Also If I left click and highlight a row, then right click it to lasso, it still tries to drag.  I would hope you can lasso whenever.

[Doof]

iTunes doesn't even have a lasso.  There's a reason.  (see the discussion thread)

I really hope iTunes hasn't become the standard to which we measure MC by...

I guess I just don't understand why the list control in MC can't behave the same way it does in Windows Explorer. It seems to handle inline editing, drag and drop, and lassoing just fine.

[gappie]

Also If I left click and highlight a row, then right click it to lasso, it still tries to drag.  I would hope you can lasso whenever.

i like the right-click-Lasso also. but i agree with this comment from datdude.

[Matt]

Also If I left click and highlight a row, then right click it to lasso, it still tries to drag.  I would hope you can lasso whenever.

The problem is that right-click drag has different functionality than left-click drag. (i.e. right-click gives you a menu of all choices, left-click often picks a default)

That's why the lasso follows the same rule that you get a lasso when click-dragging on an unselected item.

[datdude]

The problem is that right-click drag has different functionality than left-click drag. (i.e. right-click gives you a menu of all choices, left-click often picks a default)

That's why the lasso follows the same rule that you get a lasso when click-dragging on an unselected item.

Confused here, I am.  What does this mean "right-click gives you a menu of all choices, left-click often picks a default"? 

If I right click and lasso an allready highlitghted item plus items above or below, I currently cannot this.  If that is the way it is, it is not that big of a deal, it just is a little clunky.

[Matt]

Confused here, I am.  What does this mean "right-click gives you a menu of all choices, left-click often picks a default"? 

If I right click and lasso an allready highlitghted item plus items above or below, I currently cannot this.  If that is the way it is, it is not that big of a deal, it just is a little clunky.

You need to be able to right-click drag items somehow.  That's why dragging from a selected item (with the right mouse button) drags instead of lassos.

Left-click vs right-click drag a file around inside a playlist to see the difference.

[datdude]

You need to be able to right-click drag items somehow.  That's why dragging from a selected item (with the right mouse button) drags instead of lassos.

Left-click vs right-click drag a file around inside a playlist to see the difference.

Got it, makes sense.

[Doof]

That's why the lasso follows the same rule that you get a lasso when click-dragging on an unselected item.

So why can't the same be true for the left click lasso?

No offense meant to anybody in here, but I read the discussion thread on this and the way it was in the previous build was met with nearly unanimous approval. The only dissenting voices were the same two voices who supported and are now having difficulties with the right-click lasso. Perhaps that should be taken as a sign that it's really no better this way than it was with the left mouse button, and is, in fact, a worse choice given that it completely throws out a lassoing standard that's used across a multitude of applications on multiple OS's?

I mean, let's face it. If a user is going to have trouble juggling lassoing with drag and drop in MC, then they're probably having that same difficulty using almost every app out there that supports lassoing, including the OS itself, and changing paradigms on them from one app to the next isn't going to help matters any.

[marko]

I'm not a great fan of this right click lassoing thing either.
I keep trying to lasso with the left button, DOH! they changed it... try again...

it 'feels' weird...

[Doof]

it 'feels' weird...

That's because it is weird. 

[rpalmer68]

I feel that it should be the left-click lassoo as well becase this is the accepted "standard" and as such  a new user wouldn't ever think of trying the right mouse button to do this unless they are told or see it in the manual.

Richard

[dcwebman]

If Windows Explorer is the "standard", then unless my Windows Explorer is working incorrectly, right-click lassoing works there. At this point in MC, it's just that left-click lassoing is not supported. Now if J River can make the lassoing with the left click work like it does in Windows Explorer so that it doesn't usually lasso instead of allowing drag and drop, then that's a different story.

[hit_ny]

I feel that it should be the left-click lassoo as well becase this is the accepted "standard" and as such  a new user wouldn't ever think of trying the right mouse button to do this unless they are told or see it in the manual.

This is exactly what will play out in the main forum if released in this state.

It's ok to introduce new functionality in terms of presses & drags, unique only to MC, but changing an existing, established one is dicey.

[Doof]

If Windows Explorer is the "standard", then unless my Windows Explorer is working incorrectly, right-click lassoing works there. At this point in MC, it's just that left-click lassoing is not supported. Now if J River can make the lassoing with the left click work like it does in Windows Explorer so that it doesn't usually lasso instead of allowing drag and drop, then that's a different story.

heh... that's interesting. I never even noticed that. Which should speak volumes for how obvious it will be to new users. Also, even though it's there, it's still different because a right-click lasso in Windows Explorer also opens up the right-click menu for the lassoed objects.

[Matt]

because a right-click lasso in Windows Explorer also opens up the right-click menu for the lassoed objects.

But the menu opens in outer-space which is pretty bad.

[Alex B]

It opens in the place where the lasso was started.

[Matt]

It opens in the place where the lasso was started.

Right, which is outer-space after you make a big lasso.

[Alex B]

Right-click lasso does not allow shift/ctrl + lasso so that two or more lasso selections could be combined. This was possible with "Lasso v.1" and it is possible in Windows Explorer.

I am trying to decide if I like "Lasso your toe v.2" or not. Actually, I think I would need to use each version several days to be sure. For example, I have not yet tried how the selection options work with album thumbnails (top or bottom split) or with video & image file thumbnails.

[JimH]

I have been corrected on the speling of lassoo.  It is lasso.  Thanks, Mat.

[gappie]

i do think the comparison with windows explorer is not really right. in mc the lassoing can start on a file. in windows not (not in mine at least), there you should start in an empty space. the problem i had with the left click lasso is that it was so easy to drag a file by accident to a place you dont want (when you have worked at a helpdesk you should know how often that goes wrong when using explorer, "where are my files?").

[hit_ny]

That unintentional dragging from explorer put me off lassoing, seemed too finicky, you always hope files won't get dropped ie moved/copied to the wrong place.

[glynor]

I just figured I'd say thanks for fighting (and apparently winning based on 292) the good fight on the right-click vs. left-click lasso.  Left click lasso FTW!

[Doof]

the problem i had with the left click lasso is that it was so easy to drag a file by accident to a place you dont want (when you have worked at a helpdesk you should know how often that goes wrong when using explorer, "where are my files?").

I have worked in IT for almost a decade now and I know that it doesn't matter what users are doing, you're still going to get calls about "Where are my files?"

[KingSparta]

I guess my sleepless nights mean nothing to you.

i was reading when you get older you may get a sleep disorder.

the other night i woke up at 1:30am and could not get back to sleep this was with Lunesta 3mg (the strongest one).

last night I took two of them.

As for Lasso, i like it allot, more so the current version of it

[dcwebman]

I'm glad those that wanted the left-click lassoing got it back. Now please tell me one simple thing. How am I to drag a file now to another location within the list?

If I click the file and start trying to drag it, it does the lasso. If I click the file, wait a while, and start dragging, it does the lasso. The only way I can find, which is definitely counter-intuitive is to click the file, let go, and then click it again before I start dragging. Now make sure I don't do those two clicks too fast because then it will be considered a double-click.

If we use Windows Explorer (XP in my case) as the standard, then if you start the left click on the filename text itself, it will do a drag. The only way to lasso is to start the left click anywhere outside of the Name text, even within the Name column itself.

I don't think MC can rely on a Name column, but it seems if the left click starts on a column and the click is not directly on text, then a lasso should be done. If the click starts on text, then it should drag. If it was implemented this way, then I think we have a winner for everybody.

[Doof]

I don't think MC can rely on a Name column, but it seems if the left click starts on a column and the click is not directly on text, then a lasso should be done. If the click starts on text, then it should drag. If it was implemented this way, then I think we have a winner for everybody.

I agree. If the column isn't wide enough to click in empty space, then the user can make it wider, just like they would have to in Windows. I actually typed a big long post about that, lost it, and decided to just leave it alone.

[Alex B]

If I click the file, wait a while, and start dragging, it does the lasso. The only way I can find, which is definitely counter-intuitive is to click the file, let go, and then click it again before I start dragging. Now make sure I don't do those two clicks too fast because then it will be considered a double-click.

The idea is to release the button before the move operation. You can wait a week or two and if the file is still selected MC will move the file when dragged. It will lasso only if you don't hit the selected file or files.

Instead of thinking about fast or slow clicks and double-clicks you could think like this:

press the left mouse button (select) > release the button for a little moment (just raise the finger without moving the mouse) > press the button and drag

This lasso system should start to work intuitively after a little while. That happened to me very quickly.

foobar2000 has had a similar system since the v.0.9 was released about a year ago. I have not seen any complaints in the foobar support forum (I visit there weekly or so).

EDIT

12.0.294 (07/27/07)

3. Changed: Revised lasso system to follow these rules:
   Right-click lasso: right-mouse drag will always start a lasso
   Left-click lasso (optional, off by default): left-mouse drag will start a lasso when over a non-selected item in non-text area (in Options > Tree & View > Advanced)

I have not yet tried 12.0.294.

[JimH]

To Be Continued