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[MrHaugen]

I've just started ripping my CD collection. Since hard drive space so cheap this days, changing many of my MP3 albums with lossless FLAC files instead, seems like a good choise. I have downloaded the flac decoder and encoder plugin for MC 12.

My question is what settings I need to get maximum quality from the encoding, and how I can be certain of no error what so ever in my flac files.

I have currently this options enabled:

Flac - Encoder settings:
- Selected Quality: 8
- Verify encoding
- Add 4k paddign block  (what is this???)
- Add seek table

Advanced CD Ripping Settings:
- Copy mode: Secure
- Read speed: Max
- Auto create log file (to check for errors)
- Encode on the fly (can this affect quality or errors in any way??)
- I have NOT checked "Analyze audio during ripping" (not sure if it can affect encoding at all)

Anything I have selected that should not have been or the other way around?


Over to the logg file:

Can I be sure that my tracks are perfect if the log says something like: "Track  8: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Big Empty]"?

What does it mean when quality are under 100%? One example (I ripped one messy CD with the following result):

Track  9: Completed with unreliable data - Quality 7,85%  [''Unglued'']
      00:00:10  2 re-reads required to get good data
      00:00:14  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
      00:00:21  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
      ..........
      00:01:37  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
      00:01:55  6 re-reads required to get good data
      00:02:02  3 re-reads required to get good data
      00:02:06  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
      00:02:09  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
      
Belive it or not, this track actualy sound very good! I ain't got the worlds best audio equipment, but it still sound better than most of my MP3...

Someone willing to explain this to me?

[m1abrams]

Flac does not have a Quality setting, it has a compression setting which I think is what you refer to in - Selected Quality: 8,  personally I would not set it to Compression of 8 because it will greatly increase the time to compress and only save you a small percentage over the default of 5 or 6.  Unless file size is a major concern leave the default.

Sorry I do not have MC12 so maybe the interface labels it as "Quality" which would be wrong.

The 4k padding block is not a requirement and does not effect quality.  It simply makes modifying the metadata (tags) easier later, very good idea to have it.  Again the default is to write a 4k padding block.

As for the question regarding Ripping parts, I am not familiar with MC ripper.  My guess would be that if it is doing Secure ripping and you get 100% then you have a good rip.  Anything under 100% could be noticeable to you or not.  Many times I will see issues with the last track of a CD but can never detect it to the ear.

[MrHaugen]

Flac does not have a Quality setting, it has a compression setting which I think is what you refer to in - Selected Quality: 8,  personally I would not set it to Compression of 8 because it will greatly increase the time to compress and only save you a small percentage over the default of 5 or 6.  Unless file size is a major concern leave the default.

Sorry I do not have MC12 so maybe the interface labels it as "Quality" which would be wrong.

Ok. I guess it's supposed to be compression then. It does say Quality though.
I don't mind waiting a long time for the encoding. I'm young; I have all the time in the world

What about: "Encode on the fly" and "Analyze audio during ripping"? Can they have any impact on flac quality?

As for the question regarding Ripping parts, I am not familiar with MC ripper.  My guess would be that if it is doing Secure ripping and you get 100% then you have a good rip.  Anything under 100% could be noticeable to you or not.  Many times I will see issues with the last track of a CD but can never detect it to the ear.

I read somewhere that the procentage was a result of the smallest number of reads possible divided by the actual reads of the CD or something. With this example I hardly belive it's that simple (at least not with the data presented):

   Track  7: Completed Ok - Quality 97,77% [Silvergun Superman]
      00:04:22  2 re-reads required to get good data
      00:04:26  2 re-reads required to get good data

[m1abrams]

The encode on the fly I am assuming you mean to go FROM FLAC to another format like mp3.  In that case the compression level used to encode the flac file has very little impact on the speed of the decoding process.  This point is actually one of the makers of FLAC main goals to make decoding efficient.

I strongly recommend against setting compression to 8, I have done a few tests and it really is not worth it.  Do your own tests to check it.

[MrHaugen]

With "On the fly" I think it's encoding to flac directly from the CD to the hard drive. A temporary wav file is not created before encoding.


Anyone know what the Quality percentage in the log files will say exactly? How audible can it be?
I'm asking becaus it seems that about 3/4 of all my albums get tracks with quality down to 50%
Is there any way to know how serious the errors at the given seconds is?

[m1abrams]

Short of listening to the file, there is probably no real way to know.  Depends on how and where in the audio stream the error occurs, and how/if any error correction (guesses) is applied.  So basically if you get anything but 100% then listen to the song.   That is how I handle my ripping, if you are getting that many with 50% errors then you may want to spend a bit of time cleaning your CDs before ripping.  If that does not help, try a program like EAC for ripping and see if it handles them better.  NOTE: EAC is a bit harder to configure properly, however many guides available online to help just need to google for them.

[MrHaugen]

Ok. I'll give it a shot.

One observation though. Not a shock really, but the CD drive seems to have quite a bit to say.
This is a result of ripping with the same setting on 2 different machines with different cd/DVD drives:

On my HTPC with a cheap ass CD/DVD combo: H: Vitalogy - Pearl Jam    Track  1: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Last Exit]    Track  2: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Spin The Black Circle]    Track  3: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Not For You]    Track  4: Completed with unreliable data - Quality 33,98%  [Tremor Christ]       00:01:08  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:12  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:15  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:19  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:22  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:26  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:30  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:33  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:37  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:40  2 re-reads required to get good data    Track  5: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Nothingman]    Track  6: Completed Ok - Quality 67,07% [Whipping]       00:01:55  2 re-reads required to get good data       00:01:58  4 re-reads required to get good data       00:02:09  12 re-reads required to get good data       00:02:13  2 re-reads required to get good data       00:02:16  6 re-reads required to get good data    Track  7: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Pry, To]    Track  8: Completed with unreliable data - Quality 46,09%  [Corduroy]       00:02:20  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:24  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:31  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:34  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:38  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:42  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts    Track  9: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Bugs]    Track  10: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Satan's Bed]    Track  11: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Better Man]    Track  12: Completed with unreliable data - Quality 20,90%  [Aye Davanita]       00:02:13  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:16  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:20  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:24  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:27  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:31  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:34  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:38  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:42  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:45  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:49  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:52  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:02:56  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts    Track  13: Completed with unreliable data - Quality 41,77%  [Immortality]       00:00:00  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:00:03  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:01:37  3 re-reads required to get good data       00:01:44  6 re-reads required to get good data       00:01:48  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:03:07  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:03:10  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:03:14  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:03:18  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts       00:03:21  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts    Track  14: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Stupid Mop]

On my workstation with the really expensive (at least it was a couple of years ago) Plextor 716SA: E: Vitalogy - Pearl Jam    Track  1: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Last Exit]    Track  2: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Spin The Black Circle]    Track  3: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Not For You]    Track  4: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Tremor Christ]    Track  5: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Nothingman]    Track  6: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Whipping]    Track  7: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Pry, To]    Track  8: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Corduroy]    Track  9: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Bugs]    Track  10: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Satan's Bed]    Track  11: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Better Man]    Track  12: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Aye Davanita]    Track  13: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Immortality]    Track  14: Completed Ok - Quality 100,00% [Stupid Mop]

I really did'nt think it would be that much of a difference, but I was obviously wrong.
Let's hope this solves most of my quality problems.

[m1abrams]

With ripping the drives make a big difference.  Plextor traditionally is considered one of the better drives to use.

[scthom]

Several things in this topic...

I used "Quality" as the setting because that's what the reference encoder calls it.  It's really an overall compression level setting.  The higher the number the more compression -- but all of them are still lossless.  I am with m1abrams in that I prefer to use 5 or 6 because it (subjectively) hits the sweet spot between compression and time.  PS there is no way to tell afterwards what compression level the file is, so if you care, you should write it to a tag.

The "Quality" of the rip is based on the number of reads it takes to get good data.  If you are getting logs with "2 reads required to get good data" then you still got good data, but the quality will not be 100%.  If you are getting very many "unreliable data" entries, then you will probably be able to hear it.  In a 16 bit file, your error may only be one inconsequentially inaudible bit.  But you have to listen.  And the drive you use makes a huge difference.  There are many posts on the forums about the secure-ness and quality of MC's ripping engine.  Using it in the secure mode makes it equal to EAC.  Secure is definitely the way to go.

The use of "encode on the fly" or "rip and encode" is only whether a temporary WAV file is created.  Depending on the compression level, the format being converted, and the speed of your system, one may be faster than the other.  They also use different functions in the plugin, one which uses memory blocks, and the other which works on complete files.  Functionally, they're equivalent, so use whichever is faster/easier.  There is no effect on the "losslessness" of the file.

[MrHaugen]

Thanks alot guys! Think I get most of it now.
I'll just have to listen to the tracks that get "unreliable data" then.