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[lalittle]

I posted this question in the "iPod" forum recently, but it may be more appropriate for the beta forum.

It recently came to my attention that iTunes offers a feature where you can set an option on mp3 files that will make them automatically bookmark on an iPod -- i.e. where playback of an mp3 file will return to the spot you last stopped every time you return to this file for playback.  This is apparently done in iTunes by going to "Get Info" and checking "Remember Position."  I was wondering if this (or perhaps a similar) feature might be added to MC.  Audible (aa) files automatically bookmark on the iPod, but I have a lot of audiobooks in mp3 format that do not, and I'd like to have these bookmark as well.

The current workaround is to tag these "spoken word" mp3's as "Podcasts," which automatically bookmark on iPods, but this has a few problems.  For example, files tagged as Podcasts do not show the "Lyrics" field on the iPod, which is a problem because some of my "spoken word" mp3s are things like lecture series that contain detailed program notes in the lyrics field, allowing me to be able to see what topics are covered in each episode.  When I tag these files as the "Podcast" genre, I lose this program information on the iPod, which is rather frustrating since I can no longer quicly peruse or search the topics covered in each episode.  Without this field, it is very difficult to find specific episodes or sections of the program.

I was thinking that a similar method to iTunes "Get Info > Remember position" feature could accomplish this in MC, but that it might be even MORE useful to have this option AUTOMATICALLY set for ANY file tagged as "Audiobook."  This way, you wouldn't have to "do" anything to have Audiobooks, regardless of the file type, bookmark on the iPod.  I honestly don't think there would ever be a reason to "not" have Audiobooks bookmark (ALL aa files bookmark automatically), so this would be a feature that was actually better than what iTunes currently offers for syncing an iPod.

I think that bookmarking of select mp3 files would be a VERY useful feature for many people who use iPods with MC, and if it AUTOMATICALLY did this for files tagged as "Audiobooks," it would offer an iPod-specific feature that even iTunes didn't offer.

Thanks for any feedback on this,

Larry

[SwellGuy]

The ability to use bookmarking on any file was added in build 12.0.370 via a new library field 'Use Bookmarking'. The default setting for this field is "Default" which will enable bookmarking on audiobooks, videos, and podcasts. Changing this value to Yes or No will override the use of bookmarking for any type of file. This bookmarking behavior will apply to use within the MC player itself as well as to playback of the files when transferred to an iPod.

[hit_ny]

How exactly does one use this bookmarking feature ?

..the release thread is a little sparse on details.

Could i for instance set bookmarks where i perceive track changes in a mix for example ?

..and then treat those bookmarks like they were tracks for an album. The album here being the big mix, iow similar to how cue items work.

[lalittle]

How exactly does one use this bookmarking feature ?

..the release thread is a little sparse on details.

So far, this is what I've been able to figure out (somebody please correct me if I get any of this wrong.)

The "Use Bookmarking" field (i.e. NOT "Bookmark," but "Use Bookmarking") has 3 possible values:  Default, Yes, and No.  The "Yes" and "No" are pretty self explanatory -- "Yes" enables bookmarking on a file, meaning it will remember the last position that was being played and resume at this position when playback starts.  When bookmarking is enabled, it puts a value in the "Bookmark" field.  The "Bookmark" field is not meant to be user-editable.  Rather, it is "utilized" by the bookmarking feature in MC -- it's the place the actual "bookmark" is stored.

The "Default" setting appears to look at the "Media Sub Type" field to determine whether or not bookmarking should be used.  In other words, certain Media Sub Types will automatically use bookmarking when the "Use Bookmarking" field is set to "Default," while others won't.  I haven't tested all Media Sub Types yet, but so far I've found that both "Audiobooks" and "Podcasts" default to "Yes."  This means, for example, that if you set a file to the Media Sub Type "Audiobooks" it will bookmark as long as the "Use Bookmarking" field is set to either "Default" or "Yes."  You can of course override this by setting the "Use Bookmarking" field to "No."

Could i for instance set bookmarks where i perceive track changes in a mix for example ?

..and then treat those bookmarks like they were tracks for an album. The album here being the big mix, iow similar to how cue items work.

The "Use Bookmarking" in MC can't be used to set "permanent" bookmarks like you're describing here -- what you're describing is more like "chapter" or "cue" points.  The MC bookmarking feature is essentially a "resume playback" feature -- i.e. it simply remembers the last played position in a track so that you can resume playback at the position you left off at.  Think of it as literally a "bookmark" that you'd place in a book when you stop reading for the moment -- i.e. there is just one of them, it gets set whenever you stop reading, and it gets removed (and moved) when you start again.

I've only tested this a little bit, but so far, this feature works REALLY well in MC (I won't be able to test it on my iPod for a few days.)  Thanks again to JR for adding this.  The only slight note I would make is that you appear to have to let the track play for a few seconds in order to get it the bookmark to "set."  When I jump back and forth between tracks fast enough, it will sometimes clear the bookmark.

Larry

[hit_ny]

Thx Larry for that explanation, i suppose bookmarks will be most vaulable for audio books & possibly movies.

[Shelly]

Many thanks, Larry, for recommending this.  I've wanted to see this feature implemented for MP3 audiobooks for ages.  This increased the value of MC immensely for me. 

Shelly

[lalittle]

Many thanks, Larry, for recommending this.  I've wanted to see this feature implemented for MP3 audiobooks for ages.  This increased the value of MC immensely for me. 

Shelly

Thanks.

I agree -- this single feature has just made the value of MC go way up for me as well.

The REALLY great thing is that the MC implementation of this feature is SO much nicer than the way iTunes does a similar task (i.e. the "Get Info" process.)  MC's version of this feature is more configurable, and it's much easier to make changes to and check the status of (right there in the AW, or even as a column in the main window.)  On top of this, the "Default" setting means that NO user intervention is required for having Audiobooks or Podcasts bookmark, regardless of the file type (which is something that iTunes does NOT have.)

I think this is going to be a popular feature for audiobook users.

Larry

[SwellGuy]

The problem users are experiencing with MC incorrectly using bookmarking is caused by the following. The old method for setting bookmarks was done during the original playback of the file and it always set a bookmark regardless of the file type. The decision to honor the bookmark was made the next time the file was played by the input plugin. This method resulted in bookmarks loitering in every file that was ever played.

The new bookmarking approach removes the decision to honor a bookmark from the input plugin and instead MC determines to both, save and honor a bookmark for a file during the original playback. So that if a bookmark exists, the next time the file is played it will honor the bookmark.

The problem (bug) is that there are existing bookmarks in files that, with the new approach, would no longer have them saved and because they exist, they are used.

To fix the problem you can clear the bookmark tags, but beware, I just stumbled on a bug in 370 while editing tags of multiple files. We will have a general fix for this in the next build. (Note: This fix will cause you to lose some valid bookmarks.)

[lalittle]

Is it okay to edit the "Media Sub Type" field and check the box to "Store tags in files (when possible)"?  This is not checked by default, which makes me wonder if there is some reason for this that I'm not thinking of.  My preference would be to keep this field within the actual files for safety, but only if there are no "gotchas" in doing this.

Thanks,

Larry

[glynor]

Is it okay to edit the "Media Sub Type" field and check the box to "Store tags in files (when possible)"?  This is not checked by default

I think Media Sub Type is a MC-only field (not part of any official tagging "standard") and I think their default policy with saving tags out to the files is that they only do it with tags that are likely to interchange well with other multimedia applications, and not "pollute" the files with MC-only tags.

That's at least the feeling I got by looking at which tags were saved out to the files by default as opposed to stored only in the library.  Since I have no intention of ever abandoning using MC, I feel like you and would rather more than less be saved out to the files themselves... Just In Case^TM.

[lalittle]

Thanks glynor.  That's essentially my thinking as well, but I don't want to possibly cause any problems with iPod playback, which is why I'm concerned.

Once you've saved this field in a file, is it possible to revert the file to the state it was before you did this?  If I clear the Media Sub Type field with the "save within file" box checked, it will make this field "blank."  If I then UNcheck the "Save within file" box, will the file be as if I had never altered the "save within file" box, or will this still leave some residual "trace" of the fact that this field was saved in the file at one time?

Thanks,

Larry

[glynor]

Standard operating procedure for media players (hard and soft varieties) would be to ignore any tags it doesn't understand.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I seriously doubt that this would affect your iPod.  Why not just try it with a file or two and see how it works?

Even if you set it to save the tag out to the file, they don't actually get saved into the file unless you either (a) change that particular tag on a file, or (b) force the file tags to update by doing a Library Tools --> Update Tags (from Library).

[lalittle]

Standard operating procedure for media players (hard and soft varieties) would be to ignore any tags it doesn't understand.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I seriously doubt that this would affect your iPod.  Why not just try it with a file or two and see how it works?

That's just it -- I did try it, and I'm seeing some odd behavior.  Unfortunately, I have no idea if the behavior is due to this particular issue or not.  Also, I changed this tag and updated an entire group of files, so I don't have any way to compare to the previous versions.

Even if you set it to save the tag out to the file, they don't actually get saved into the file unless you either (a) change that particular tag on a file, or (b) force the file tags to update by doing a Library Tools --> Update Tags (from Library).

I did update the files, and I confirmed (via my backup program) that the files themselves had been re-written.  I did this before I considered that this might be a problem.

Thanks again for the feedback,

Larry

[lalittle]

Just to give people a heads up on this, as of build 372 (and including build 371), if a file has "Use Bookmarking" set to "Default" and the "Media Sub Type" set to "Audiobook," bookmarking will work in MC, but it will NOT work on this file on an iPod.  For the time being, if you want this file to bookmark on an iPod, you have to either 1) manually set the "Use Bookmarking" field to "Yes, or 2) set the "Media Sub Type" to "Podcast" instead of "Audiobook."

I assume that this will most likely be fixed soon, so I'll append this post when this happens.  In the mean time, I didn't want other people to go through all the testing I had to go through in order to figure out why my Audiobooks were not bookmarking on the iPod.

Larry

[rjm]

So far, this is what I've been able to figure out (somebody please correct me if I get any of this wrong.)

The "Use Bookmarking" field (i.e. NOT "Bookmark," but "Use Bookmarking") has 3 possible values:  Default, Yes, and No.  The "Yes" and "No" are pretty self explanatory -- "Yes" enables bookmarking on a file, meaning it will remember the last position that was being played and resume at this position when playback starts.  When bookmarking is enabled, it puts a value in the "Bookmark" field.  The "Bookmark" field is not meant to be user-editable.  Rather, it is "utilized" by the bookmarking feature in MC -- it's the place the actual "bookmark" is stored.

The "Default" setting appears to look at the "Media Sub Type" field to determine whether or not bookmarking should be used.  In other words, certain Media Sub Types will automatically use bookmarking when the "Use Bookmarking" field is set to "Default," while others won't.  I haven't tested all Media Sub Types yet, but so far I've found that both "Audiobooks" and "Podcasts" default to "Yes."  This means, for example, that if you set a file to the Media Sub Type "Audiobooks" it will bookmark as long as the "Use Bookmarking" field is set to either "Default" or "Yes."  You can of course override this by setting the "Use Bookmarking" field to "No."

The "Use Bookmarking" in MC can't be used to set "permanent" bookmarks like you're describing here -- what you're describing is more like "chapter" or "cue" points.  The MC bookmarking feature is essentially a "resume playback" feature -- i.e. it simply remembers the last played position in a track so that you can resume playback at the position you left off at.  Think of it as literally a "bookmark" that you'd place in a book when you stop reading for the moment -- i.e. there is just one of them, it gets set whenever you stop reading, and it gets removed (and moved) when you start again.

I've only tested this a little bit, but so far, this feature works REALLY well in MC (I won't be able to test it on my iPod for a few days.)  Thanks again to JR for adding this.  The only slight note I would make is that you appear to have to let the track play for a few seconds in order to get it the bookmark to "set."  When I jump back and forth between tracks fast enough, it will sometimes clear the bookmark.

Larry

Thanks for this explanation but I am still unclear on this new feature.

1) What is the logic that MC uses to populate Media Sub Type? I inspected this field in my library and it is set to Unassigned for everything (including large variety of audiobooks, videos, podcasts, etc.). The only files that have a value in Media Sub Type are a few podcasts that I recently downloaded.

2) What is the definition of an "audiobook"? I tag my audiobooks with genre = Book. Does this make them them "audiobooks"? If not, what does?

3) Every file in my library has Use Bookmarking set to Default. I also see that MC does not store Use Bookmarking in tags by default. If I set Use Bookmarking to yes on all of my audiobooks (genre=Book)this will not modify my mp3 files (which is good) but I do not understand how an iPod will know to use bookmarking if nothing is stored in the mp3. Can you please shed some light?

[SwellGuy]

We have slowly been migrating away from using the genre field to determine whether or not content is an audiobook, a podcast, a TV show, etc. We now use the Media Sub Type field to establish this information and leave the genre field available to specify the genre that an audiobook, a podcast, or a TV show falls within.

1) The Media Sub Type field is only set when importing a new podcast or Audible file. For all other files or files already imported you will have to set this field yourself.

2) Therefore, setting the Genre field to 'Book' does not make a file an audiobook to MC. Setting the Media Sub Type tag to 'Audiobook' does.

3) An iPod will use bookmarking on any file if 'Use Bookmarking' is set to 'Yes' or if it is set to 'Default' and the Media Type (MT) or Media Sub Type (MST) is set accordingly: MT = Video; MST = Audiobook or Podcast

[rjm]

Thank you very much. A couple more questions to complete my understanding...

1) What defines a "podcast"? Genre=podcast?

2) What defines an "Audible" file?

3) Am I correct that info stored in Use Bookmarking, MT, and MST are somehow passed to the iPod without using MP3 tags? (Just want to be clear on what needs to be stored in mp3 tags for bookmarking to work).

[glynor]

Thank you very much. A couple more questions to complete my understanding...

1) What defines a "podcast"? Genre=podcast?

If I understand what he posted (and I think I do) then, No.

MC now ignores [Genre] when deciding on "to bookmark or not to bookmark".  All it cares about is the values of:

[Media Type]:  It bookmarks all videos by default.
[Media Sub Type]: It bookmarks all files marked Podcast or Audiobook here.  Not in Genre, but here.
[Use Bookmarking]: It bookmarks all files set to Yes.  If it is set to "default" it follows the rules above, if it is set to No then it ignores the rules above.

Genre is completely irrelevant.

[rjm]

Thanks Glynor. Still do not quite understand.

Let me re-phrase my question.

Swellguy says MC sets Media Sub Type when I import a podcast or audible file. How does MC know if the file is a podcast or audible file?

Also would appreciate an answer to:
Am I correct that info stored in Use Bookmarking, MT, and MST are somehow passed to the iPod without using MP3 tags? (Just want to be clear on what needs to be stored in mp3 tags for bookmarking to work).

[glynor]

Thanks Glynor. Still do not quite understand. Your "here" does not link to anything, was this intentional?

Swellguy says MC sets Media Sub Type when I import a podcast or audible file. How does MC know if the file is a podcast or audible file?

Here meant "in the [Media Sub Type] tag".

It knows if it downloaded the Podcast of Audible file itself, because it sets that tag as "part of" the download process.  Otherwise (if you are using something else for podcast and audible downloading) you'll need to manually tag the files with the appropriate [Media Sub Type] tag after importing them into MC.

I don't know the answer to your other question.  I think the iPod uses a proprietary MP3 in-file tag for some things, and obeys the file extension (m4b) for others.

[SwellGuy]

The iPod doesn't look at MP3 tags it gets all metadata from a database that MC writes to the iPod. What MC writes to the iPod database is based (in part) on the tags discussed above.

Also, we actually check two things to determine if a file is a podcast. 1) [Media Sub Type]  = 'Podcast' and 2) if there is a value in [Feed URL] tag.

MC can only automatically set the [Media Sub Type] tag to 'Podcast' when MC downloads podcast episode.

[lalittle]

I confirmed that as of build 381, files with the MST "Audiobook" now bookmark on the iPod when the "Use Bookmarking" field is set to "Default."  This wasn't working in previous builds -- bookmarking worked in this situation in MC, but not on the iPod.  Thanks for fixing this issue.

Also, we actually check two things to determine if a file is a podcast. 1) [Media Sub Type]  = 'Podcast' and 2) if there is a value in [Feed URL] tag.

It's conisdered a Podcast as long as ONE of these conditions is met, correct?  This way, we can "manually" define files as Podcasts simply by using the MST field -- i.e. we don't have to add a "false" value to the Feed URL field as well.

Thanks,

Larry

[rjm]

The iPod doesn't look at MP3 tags it gets all metadata from a database that MC writes to the iPod. What MC writes to the iPod database is based (in part) on the tags discussed above.

Also, we actually check two things to determine if a file is a podcast. 1) [Media Sub Type]  = 'Podcast' and 2) if there is a value in [Feed URL] tag.

MC can only automatically set the [Media Sub Type] tag to 'Podcast' when MC downloads podcast episode.

Thank you for explaining this. I get it now and am sure I will enjoy the new bookmarking feature.

[rjm]

I did some testing of bookmarking and have a few new questions:

1) After importing an audiobook I scroll forward and play a random sampling of the mp3s to check for rip problems. This sets bookmarks which will cause confusion when I eventually listen to the complete audiobook. I tried to clear Bookmark but am not allowed to modify this field. How can I clear bookmarks?

2) When I complete playing a file I would expect Bookmark to reset to null. This is not what I am observing. The bookmark appears to remain at the last value set. Is this intentional or an oversight?

3) Is the content of Bookmark passed to the iPod on sync? In other words, if I partally listen to an audiobook on my computer, then sync my iPod, will the iPod resume playing where I left off?

4) Do I need to initialize my iPod for bookmarking to work on files that are already loaded on the iPod? In other words, if an audiobook already exists on the iPod and I subsequently enable bookmarking by setting MST to audiobook, then resync, will bookmarking work? Or do I need to reload the audiobook on the iPod?

Thanks for your help.

[lalittle]

I'll try to answer what I can based on my experiences so far.

I did some testing of bookmarking and have a few new questions:

1) After importing an audiobook I scroll forward and play a random sampling of the mp3s to check for rip problems. This sets bookmarks which will cause confusion when I eventually listen to the complete audiobook. I tried to clear Bookmark but am not allowed to modify this field. How can I clear bookmarks?

There are a couple ways to "clear" the bookmark.

First, if you set the AW to display the "Bookmark" field (NOT the "Use Bookmarking" field), you can click on this field in the Tag Window and select the blank space beneath the numerical value.

Second, if you pause the track and navigate back to the beginning (the |<< button will work for this), it will set the bookmark to the beginning of the track, which is effectively the same thing as "clearing" it.

2) When I complete playing a file I would expect Bookmark to reset to null. This is not what I am observing. The bookmark appears to remain at the last value set. Is this intentional or an oversight?

I'm not seeing this -- when I let a track finish, it starts at the beginning the next time I play it.  That said, what I AM seeing is that when I hit the "next" button, it jumps to the next track, but the original track bookmarks the point that was playing when I hit "Next," so it returns to this spot when I play it again.  Is this what you're referring to?  I do not know if this is intentional or not.

3) Is the content of Bookmark passed to the iPod on sync? In other words, if I partally listen to an audiobook on my computer, then sync my iPod, will the iPod resume playing where I left off?

The bookmarking "capability" is passed to the iPod, but the actual bookmark point is not.  I totally agree with this approach since it could cause a lot of confusion if the bookmark point itself was passed to iPods, especially in situations where multiple users utilize MC and sync separate iPods with the same system.  Passing the bookmark point from MC to iPods would not even help single user setups since 1) you'd have to keep syncing the iPod over and over to keep the iPod and the system "in sync" with each other, and 2) at this time, the bookmark is not passed BACK from the system to the iPod anyway.

4) Do I need to initialize my iPod for bookmarking to work on files that are already loaded on the iPod? In other words, if an audiobook already exists on the iPod and I subsequently enable bookmarking by setting MST to audiobook, then re-sync, will bookmarking work? Or do I need to reload the audiobook on the iPod?

You will need to re-sync this file to the iPod in order to get it to start bookmarking.  I'm "pretty sure" that you'd have to specifically delete the current file and re-sync it to the iPod.  At the moment (as far as I know), changing the MST tag does not flag a file for re-syncing UNLESS you edit the tag so that it's saved to the file.  In this case, the file will be updated, which will flag it for re-syncing.  The default settings for the MST tag, however, does NOT save it to the file itself.

Larry

[rjm]

lalittle, thanks for taking the time to respond, much appreciated!

First, if you set the AW to display the "Bookmark" field (NOT the "Use Bookmarking" field), you can click on this field in the Tag Window and select the blank space beneath the numerical value.

I missed this. MC permits us to clear the field but not modify its value (which makes sense). Extending your AW approach, I confirmed you can add Bookmark as a column in a view and clear Bookmark from groups of tracks.

I'm not seeing this -- when I let a track finish, it starts at the beginning the next time I play it.  That said, what I AM seeing is that when I hit the "next" button, it jumps to the next track, but the original track bookmarks the point that was playing when I hit "Next," so it returns to this spot when I play it again.  Is this what you're referring to?  I do not know if this is intentional or not.

Hmm. Now I am not seeing it either, yet I know I saw it yesterday. There appears to be some strange logic associated with clearing Bookmark. If you play a file and then press stop Bookmark is cleared. On the other hand, if you play a file then pause it (one or more times) then resume playing, then press stop, Bookmark is not cleared. Looks like this feature needs a little more work.

The bookmarking "capability" is passed to the iPod, but the actual bookmark point is not.  I totally agree with this approach since it could cause a lot of confusion if the bookmark point itself was passed to iPods, especially in situations where multiple users utilize MC and sync separate iPods with the same system.  Passing the bookmark point from MC to iPods would not even help single user setups since 1) you'd have to keep syncing the iPod over and over to keep the iPod and the system "in sync" with each other, and 2) at this time, the bookmark is not passed BACK from the system to the iPod anyway.

Thanks for clarification. I agree with you.

You will need to re-sync this file to the iPod in order to get it to start bookmarking.  I'm "pretty sure" that you'd have to specifically delete the current file and re-sync it to the iPod.  At the moment (as far as I know), changing the MST tag does not flag a file for re-syncing UNLESS you edit the tag so that it's saved to the file.  In this case, the file will be updated, which will flag it for re-syncing.  The default settings for the MST tag, however, does NOT save it to the file itself.

I was wondering if the "iPod database" was rebuilt for all files and passed to the iPod on each sync, regardless if some of the files are already on the iPod. Not a big deal either way.

Another observation:

I inspected Bookmark for all of my audio files and observed that a value was set for a small random percentage of the tracks. None of these have MST set to a value that would cause MC to persist a value in Bookmark. Any ideas on why a few files have Bookmark set when they should not? I see that Bookmark is populated while a file is playing (regaredless of MST) but is then cleared when switching to a different track if MST is not set appropriately. I wonder if there was a bug in an earlier version that caused some Bookmarks to persist?

[rjm]

Did some more tests and may have found another problem...

When Use Bookmarking=Default and MST=audiobook, bookmarking works as expected.

However, if Use Bookmarking=Yes and MST=null, bookmarking does not work.

[lalittle]

Did some more tests and may have found another problem...

When Use Bookmarking=Default and MST=audiobook, bookmarking works as expected.

However, if Use Bookmarking=Yes and MST=null, bookmarking does not work.

I'm not seeing this.  If I change [Use Bookmarking] to "Yes" and clear the MST field, I get bookmarking on this file.  Which build are you using?

(NOTE that using the MST "Audiobook" didn't enable bookmarks on iPods until build 281, which is still a beta build at the moment.  The official builds have been releasing VERY rapidly recently, however, so I would think that this fix would be available to you very soon.)

There appears to be some strange logic associated with clearing Bookmark. If you play a file and then press stop Bookmark is cleared. On the other hand, if you play a file then pause it (one or more times) then resume playing, then press stop, Bookmark is not cleared. Looks like this feature needs a little more work.

Okay -- I think I've found the pattern.  It appears that whether or not bookmarking is "activated" for any given track depends on how far into the track playback has advanced.  Once it advances past 1 minute into the track, it "activates," and bookmarking will now work, INCLUDING in the section prior to the 1:00 mark.  In other words, if you start a track and don't let it go past 1:00, it doesn't bookmark.  Once it goes past 1:00, it starts to bookmark EVEN if it's navigated to a point EARLIER that the 1:00 mark.  If, on the other hand, you navigate to a pre 0:10 area of the track (pre 10 seconds in), bookmarking will be DEactivated until you once again navigate (or let playback advance) to a point after the 1:00 (1 minute) mark.

To test this, start a track with "Use Bookmarking" enabled and navigate around in the pre 1:00 area.  Play a different track and return.  Note that bookmarking is not working yet.  Now navigate the track to a point after 1:00.  Note that bookmarking now works, even if you navigate to a point in the track earlier than 1:00.  Now navigate to a pre 0:10 spot.  Note that when you play another track and return, bookmarking is once again deactivated until you navigate out past 1:00 once again.

I think this might explain why it appeared that selected "Yes" for "Use Bookmarking" didn't appear to work with the MST blank -- I'm guessing that you didn't let the track advance past 1:00.

Let me know if you noticed a similar pattern.

Thanks,

Larry

[rjm]

I'm not seeing this.  If I change [Use Bookmarking] to "Yes" and clear the MST field, I get bookmarking on this file.  Which build are you using?

12.0.380

Okay -- I think I've found the pattern.  It appears that whether or not bookmarking is "activated" for any given track depends on how far into the track playback has advanced.  Once it advances past 1 minute into the track, it "activates," and bookmarking will now work, INCLUDING in the section prior to the 1:00 mark.  In other words, if you start a track and don't let it go past 1:00, it doesn't bookmark.  Once it goes past 1:00, it starts to bookmark EVEN if it's navigated to a point EARLIER that the 1:00 mark.  If, on the other hand, you navigate to a pre 0:10 area of the track (pre 10 seconds in), bookmarking will be DEactivated until you once again navigate (or let playback advance) to a point after the 1:00 (1 minute) mark.

To test this, start a track with "Use Bookmarking" enabled and navigate around in the pre 1:00 area.  Play a different track and return.  Note that bookmarking is not working yet.  Now navigate the track to a point after 1:00.  Note that bookmarking now works, even if you navigate to a point in the track earlier than 1:00.  Now navigate to a pre 0:10 spot.  Note that when you play another track and return, bookmarking is once again deactivated until you navigate out past 1:00 once again.

I think this might explain why it appeared that selected "Yes" for "Use Bookmarking" didn't appear to work with the MST blank -- I'm guessing that you didn't let the track advance past 1:00.

Excellent detective work! Yes, bookmarking works with Use Bookmarking=Yes and MST=null as long as I play past the 1:00 point. I am not however seeing the 0:10 reset that you observed. As long as I play past 1:00 is does not matter if I navigate to before 0:10, the bookmark still persists.

[lalittle]

Excellent detective work! Yes, bookmarking works with Use Bookmarking=Yes and MST=null as long as I play past the 1:00 point.

Thanks.  I had already started typing a post saying I couldn't figure out the pattern, but I stuck with it a bit more and figured it out.

I am not however seeing the 0:10 reset that you observed. As long as I play past 1:00 is does not matter if I navigate to before 0:10, the bookmark still persists.

It's actually just a "bit" more complicated than I explained above -- you need to play it a "second time" for the bookmark to clear after navigating to a pre 10 second spot.  Try these steps:

1) Play a track that has bookmarking enabled and navigate after the 1 minute mark.
2) Double click (play) a second track.
3) Double click the first track and note that playback starts at the bookmark.
4) Navigate to a point prior to the 10 second mark.
5) Double click the second track again.
6) Double click the first track again - note that the bookmark worked.
7) Double click the second track.
8) Double click the first track again -- the bookmark has been cleared.

Note that as of step 7, you can visually verify that the bookmark in the first track has been cleared.  Just add the "Bookmark" field column to the main view and watch it's behavior.  As soon as you play the second track in step 7, the bookmark for the first track disappears.

Note also that as of step 6, you can navigate around in the pre 1 minute area of the track and bookmark will still not work on the next play.

Let me know if you see this behavior.

Thanks,

Larry

PS.  JRiver:  Is the "1 minute" behavior intentional?  I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be.  In my opinion, if bookmarking is enabled, it should ALWAYS be enabled even if it's prior to the 1 minute mark.  I could see the bookmark not "activating" for perhaps the first 5 or 10 seconds of a track, but 1 minute is too far in for this behavior. The "pre 10 second" behavior seems like a bug, however, that I assume is not intentional.

[rjm]

Let me know if you see this behavior.

Confirming I see the same behaviour. I agree that the logic does not make sense. I think bookmarks should be set regardless of the last played position.

Also, I am now observing that bookmark is cleared (as expected) when a file completes playing. When I last tested this it did not clear. There may be some odd logic here as well.