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[thurston]

I've been playing with the idea of building a second computer soley for streaming media to and playing through MC.  What would the minimum requirements be for a processor and RAM to handle this type of application?  Is there anything I should include in specs for the motherboard to allow fast transfer of video?

[bil1010105]

Nothing really special required with the motherboard. Most (if not all) modern motherboards, even the cheap ones, should be able to handle video streaming no problem.

Main thing will be your network bandwidth, and processor power at both ends (particularly on the server if you want to transcode video 'on the fly'). If you want to stream HD video, your media centre PC will need a video card capable of handling that (i.e. with component or HDMI output for direct connection to an LCD or plasma TV). If it has hardware to decode video like H.264 then so much the better. Other than that, it's amazing what you can get away with & still have a perfectly good & serviceable media centre PC.

MC can't stream video except through UPnP, so good luck with that if that's what you're doing. You didn't specify what you plan to use as your media server. I haven't found a way of getting MC's UPnP support to work through software yet (although I'm pretty new with MC myself).

[John Gateley]

MC can't stream video except through UPnP, so good luck with that if that's what you're doing. You didn't specify what you plan to use as your media server. I haven't found a way of getting MC's UPnP support to work through software yet (although I'm pretty new with MC myself).

MC can stream video with Library Server, too. With both, however, you must choose a format which is amenable to streaming.
Many formats require information from a table stored at the end of the file, and this is not easy to stream.

I'm not sure what you mean getting UPnP to work through software.

j

[bil1010105]

I'm not sure what you mean getting UPnP to work through software.

I mean having MC as the UPnP media server, and using another PC at the other end (connected to the TV) acting as a client. You have to use a dedicated hardware client it seems?

I bought MC12 thinking that it would handle this, and was really disappointed to find that it wouldn't except for a few video formats that nobody really uses (i.e. not DivX, Xvid, etc). It's still a great system, but without a UPnP client its rather crippled IMO.

Maybe what I'm asking for isn't possible, but Windows Media Player can do it - however the library functionality isn't a patch on MC's.

[glynor]

Why do you need to stream if you're on a LAN.  About the only reason to stream is to force large Video data down a small pipe (WAN connections)... If all the machines are local, you can simply PLAY from a network share, and AVIs work just fine.

[John Gateley]

I mean having MC as the UPnP media server, and using another PC at the other end (connected to the TV) acting as a client. You have to use a dedicated hardware client it seems?

You can do this, it is Library Server instead of UPnP server.

j

[bil1010105]

I'm running Vista x64 on my server PC, and WinXP on the client.

My videos are spread across multiple drives (including removable drives). Network shares get forgotten by Vista whenever you disconnect a removable drive. You have to set them up each time. Plus, I can't use the Theatre view on the client if I have to go through Windows Explorer to play from a network share. Even with the largest text size I can barely read the text in Explorer on my (non-HD) TV. So it's hardly ideal.

The Library server works fine for audio, but for video it just sits there saying "Opening..." for about 10 minutes, if it even plays at all. I'm not bothered about audio in the living room - it's video on my TV that I'm most interested in. For that, unfortunately - unless I'm missing some crucial element - it's useless.

Which is a real shame. 

[galahad1974]

What exactly is happening when the "Opening" Screen is showing. Mine dosent take 10 minutes, but is is a considerable wait, considering i could open and click on the file in explorer and it would start instantly. Is there trascoding occurring by default that i need to turn off?

[John Gateley]

The Library server works fine for audio, but for video it just sits there saying "Opening..." for about 10 minutes, if it even plays at all. I'm not bothered about audio in the living room - it's video on my TV that I'm most interested in. For that, unfortunately - unless I'm missing some crucial element - it's useless.

This is what I said earlier: you have to choose a format that is amenable for streaming. If playback requires data at the end of the file, you have to read the entire file to get there and it takes a while. Some formats work better...

j

[bil1010105]

This is what I said earlier: you have to choose a format that is amenable for streaming. If playback requires data at the end of the file, you have to read the entire file to get there and it takes a while. Some formats work better...

Just a thought, but why does it need to seek to the end of the file on the *client* computer? It seems to be copying the entire file over the network so it can look at something at the end of the file on there rather than doing a simple file seek() on the file at the library server end? It's un-believably slow (Vista networking being as... cough... good as it is), and as I said, unusable. I also don't see why it needs to copy the entire file over the network. It kind of defeats the point.

And I'm afraid most videos are in DivX/Xvid format. If I have to convert them to something else (like... MPEG-1 like I've read on here  ) then I may as well convert them to DVD and play them on my DVD player. I don't want to do that!

Does anyone know of a way that I can use Windows Media Centre or Windows Media Player to connect to a MC library over a network? Or any piece of software come to that?

Please don't get me wrong, I think it's a very good product. The library handling is second to none. It's just a crying shame that I can't actually use the darn thing for what I want.

[Alex B]

You should just get your server PC in shape and share the file folder paths. If you really can't keep the drives powered you can use a batch file for recreating the shares - here are some instructions: http://nerhood.homeip.net/wordpress/archives/2007/04/04/quickly-recreate-shares-on-windows-servers/

I use copy of the same MC library on three PCs. I have imported all media files from the "virtual" X: Y: and Z: drives, which are the same on all PCs (the server shares are mapped with these drive letters).

Another option is to use a shared library folder. You can share a library folder on one of the PCs and configure the other MC instances to use this library location. The first PC that opens the library has write access and the others will be read only. Naturally, also in this case all PCs must see the media files in the identical locations.

[bil1010105]

Thanks for the link, Alex.

I'm not sure if Excel is really the tool I want to use to do this, but it's given me some ideas anyway. 

So, what you guys are saying is that if I have two removable drives (I can only ever have at most one powered at a time because of USB & power limitations), I can use a script of some description to automatically re-create the shares on those drives when I plug one or other of them in. Then map a network drive on the server(?) to that share? And create a library using that network drive, which I then copy to the client PC - which also has the same network drive set?

[John Gateley]

Just a thought, but why does it need to seek to the end of the file on the *client* computer? It seems to be copying the entire file over the network so it can look at something at the end of the file on there rather than doing a simple file seek() on the file at the library server end? It's un-believably slow (Vista networking being as... cough... good as it is), and as I said, unusable. I also don't see why it needs to copy the entire file over the network. It kind of defeats the point.

Because the file is not being accessed as a file, but as a stream via http. Streams on http don't support seek. There are workarounds, but they are more complex to implement (http ranges).

j

[bil1010105]

Because the file is not being accessed as a file, but as a stream via http. Streams on http don't support seek. There are workarounds, but they are more complex to implement (http ranges).

• Mr Client asks for file via HTTP.
• Mr Server says "Ok, you want this file here? Ah yes, I see it's in SuperHD Xvideofragilistic format. I'll just read all the metadata I need from it before I serve it to you."
• Mr Client waits a couple of seconds while Mr Server gathers all the details from the file.
• Mr Server, having got all the info he needs from the file, sends a copy to Mr Client & begins streaming the video over HTTP.
• Mr Client says "Thank you very much!" and starts showing it.

Now, that may be an over simplistic way of looking at things, but since we're talking about your *own* software on both the client *and* server ends (i.e., you can pretty much do what you want with regards protocols & communication packets) then something similar must surely be possible?

Please tell me you're looking at this issue as a priority feature for MC13.

Thanks.

[JimH]

Bil,
I admire your courage taking on John Gateley, but have you ever, uh, written such an animal? 

John and the rest of the team have implemented very nice seeking of video, but it is fairly complex.

Anything is possible, given enough time.

[bil1010105]

I admire your courage taking on John Gateley, but have you ever, uh, written such an animal? 

John and the rest of the team have implemented very nice seeking of video, but it is fairly complex.

Anything is possible, given enough time.

Not trying to take anyone on, and as I said, I'm sure I'm being over simplistic. I'm just trying to get my head around why a piece of software as otherwise great as MC is lacking the means to network the most common video formats effectively between copies of itself. Saying "it's too difficult" smacks of a cop-out to me, especially when you consider that there are free (often open source) servers out there that can do it... and the software's motto is "connect all your toys". I apologise if I appear to be coming across as advaserial, it's really not my intent.

You're absolutely right, I haven't written this myself. I am however a professional developer of 10+ years, and with my day job & a young family I simply don't have the time. That's why I bought a piece of software to hopefully do it for me so I don't have to. It's disappointing that MC can't do it, when it does so many other things so well.

It's my own fault of course. I should have tested it more thoroughly with the trial version to see if it fitted my needs or not before buying it. You live and learn, I suppose. But having made that mistake, I'd just like to know if such a feature is planned or not for a future version. If it is, I'll live with it and stick with MC until it happens.

If it's not on the radar, then I'll reluctantly chalk it down to experience and try and find something else.

[JimH]

I apologise if I appear to be coming across as advaserial, it's really not my intent.

It does seem that way.

[bil1010105]

In that case I offer my humblest apologies.

[JimH]

Thanks.  I apologize for being a little sarcastic with you last night.

Now, what type of file?  Divx?

Maybe you could ask John Gateley to take a look at how hard it would be to add.  He's our developer.  He wrote the UPnP server and maintains Library Server.

[Alex B]

For me and many others who have big video files in their libraries the HTTP streaming mode is not a preferred mode on a fast LAN. It is more suitable for audio files on WAN.

As I tried to explain, the "Library Server" system is not the only available "client-server" option. A shared library works as well and after the initial setup process it works without further complexities.

The setup process has been explained a few times in this forum (I am not sure if a detailed wiki article exists already), but here is a very basic "step by step" example:


On the "server":

1. Share the media base folder(s) in Windows Eplorer. For several reasons it is be better if a shared base folder is located outside the default user specific folders, i.e. it should not be under the "My Documents" folder (on XP). Base folders like C:\Media\, D:\Video\ etc would be fine.

2. Browse to this shared base folder in Windows Explorer > My Network Places ...

4. Map this share as a drive letter. Any free letter from A: to Z: is possible, but you may want to use a letter that is not normally used with local drives (including removable drives). I'll use Z: in this example.

5. Create another new folder for the shared library (= MC's database) and share this folder in Windows Explorer. A folder name like C:\MClibrary\ would be fine. Create a subfolder for the actual library files. I'll use C:\MClibrary\SharedLibrary\ in this example.
 
6. Create a new library with MC's Library Manager in this shared library folder (i.e. in C:\MClibrary\SharedLibrary\) and load this library.

7. In MC, import the media files to this library from the Z:\ drive.

(There are several ways to use a copy of an already created library and just change the location links of the imported files if preferred. A forum search can find instructions for this.)


On the other PCs:

1. Map the network share which contains the media files with the drive letter Z:

2. Map the network share which contains the shared MC library with another drive letter. I'll use Y: in this example.

3. In MC create a new library with the Library Manager. Write Y:\SharedLibrary\ in the location box (or browse to this location). Load this library.


The first opened library instance will have full write access. The other instances will be read-only (they load a temporary copy of the library in case it is already opened elsewhere). This is a very nice feature because it makes possible to use any of the PCs for editing library data. You just need to close the other MCs before opening the shared library on the PC that you wish to use for changing library data.

[John Gateley]

In addition to Alex's way, you can convert your video to a format that's supported. I don't have a list of known good/bad handy, I'll add it to the wiki tomorrow.

Or start a thread asking other users how important this feature is to them, the more that chime in, the higher priority for me it is.

Finally, some formats cannot be streamed no matter how I change the code: we *don't* control the playback, we pass it off to their decoder.

j

[Alex B]

Maybe you could try to automate the "shared library" system a bit. It could look more like the Library Server - Client system.

Then the users would have two server options - a streaming HTTP server and a LAN server.

The latter would be strictly for single LAN segments with Windows Networking.

Perhaps there are ways to create application specific Windows network shares that would be created automatically by MC (or with minimal user intervention).

For example, instead of using an m01p://... streaming address the client would then directly contact a network share address like \\PC name\MCshare_xyz123456\...

[bil1010105]

Thanks for the replies guys (especially Alex, I will try and set up what you suggest tomorrow).

Really, all I want to be able to do is play videos from my PC on my TV using a library I can customise and control. MC gives me that control like no other, and in that respect I'm really happy with the software. I didn't come on here looking to upset anyone or start a war. 

I would echo Alex's feature request also. Anything that makes it easier to set up locally networked PC's to stream / share (whatever you want to call it, the effect is the same) videos from a central point has to be worth at least looking at? 

I'll let you know how I get on. I'm sure you'll all be dying to know. 

[bil1010105]

Update: I set everything up as described in Alex B's message tonight (shared library) and everything works.

I'm still going to have the problem of network shares being forgotten between reboots (or if I unplug the drive), but that's a relatively minor issue (and nothing to do with MC... blame Vista for that little quirk). I'm now getting video playing perfectly on my TV in the living room from the MC library, and that is a HUGE step forward!

Thanks very much for your help. 

[thurston]

Thanks for all the info and it's good to see others interested in this same type of setup.  But to get back to the original post questions, can anyone give me some examples of their "client" computer's components (processor, MB, RAM, etc)?

[Alex B]

You can use any PC. The minimum specs are the same as with a stand-alone PC, i.e. what ever is enough for the file formats and program features you use. As usual, the resulting audio and display quality can vary a bit depending on the used sound card and display adapter, but there are no special requirements for these either.

It is important to have a fast and reliable network connection. I would recommend a wired LAN. A switched 100 Mbit LAN would be good, 1000 Mbit even better.

[glynor]

If you're using it for large, high-quality video files, a Gigabit LAN is really best.  The switches are so cheap now that you might as well just get Gigabit.

Wireless can work, but it is certainly not the best option if you can do a wired connection.

[John Gateley]

In addition to Alex's way, you can convert your video to a format that's supported. I don't have a list of known good/bad handy, I'll add it to the wiki tomorrow.

The wiki now has more info:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Library_Server#Library_Server_and_Video

j

[glynor]

MKV fully supports streaming too, and I'd guess that MP4 should work.  Do these formats work with Library Server?