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[Matt]

This build [12.0.392] reworks panes and browser schemes.  This may cause browsing or tagging mode problems.

These changes enable fields to be nested.  For now, only Keywords are nestable.  Use a \ when editing to create a folder.  You can also drag-n-drop to the Keywords pane, rename, or use tagging mode.

Here's a screenshot:
http://www.pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Nested_Keywords/

[Matt]

Should expanded items persist across sessions (currently they're remembered for the session)?  Or should it default to expanding everyting?  Or expanding nothing?

Should there be a way to expand "All" or a new item "Flat List" to see all the values as one big list?  If this is there, should the flat list look like Family\Matt or just Matt?

[glynor]

This looks interesting for sure....  I'm a little afraid, but I don't really know why!   

I happen to be doing some major tagging over the next two days, so I'm going to hold off.  For now.  Way to draw outside the lines though! 

[park]

Is this like the delicious sidebar for firefox?

If I tag something with multiple keywords, they automatically get nested right? So one keyword tag can be found in multiple places in the list.

I thought that that was a very good way of dealing with large lists actually. One way around creating totally new categories.

[marko]

looks very interesting indeed. A solution to my burgeoning keywords list perhaps?
Now my decks are a tad clearer, I'll give it a test drive.
Must sleep first though...

Do you guys ever sleep? developement is relentless these days... respect is due.

-marko.

[Matt]

A solution to my burgeoning keywords list perhaps?

That's the goal.  We look forward to seeing what you think.

[Shelly]

I think the idea is great and am looking forward to playing with it. 

It seems that the grouping size of 1 no longer works to drill down to the appropriate items.  Groupings of 2 and above are fine.

Shelly

[datdude]

I would find this useful I think if any field type could be manually user connected/nested i.e. album - artist, genre - subgenre, etc...

[Doof]

I would find this useful I think if any field type could be manually user connected/nested i.e. album - artist, genre - subgenre, etc...

I agree. Right now I'm looking at this and thinking of all of the People in my People tag.

[datdude]

It would be a cryin shame if this wasn't done, assuming this feature is kept all together.

I could see myself wasting hours, days, weeks, making hundreds of these in playlist subgroups, but that would be ridiculously tedious, when the metadata is allready there, MC just needs a way to become smart and sort out the relationships among the DB fields

I am noticing that the pane does not auto expand thus hiding the results of the sub items in the pane tree.  Would it not make more sense to not have them shift to the right but just keep them left justified but maybe a slightly different list background color to differentiate parent from child?

[Matt]

I agree. Right now I'm looking at this and thinking of all of the People in my People tag.

If we stick with this, any field will be nestable.  Not sure if it's be opt-in, or if all list fields will simply start treating a backslash like a nesting level.

[datdude]

How do you nest?  Can you post a screenshot?

Where do you add the \ ?

thx

[Matt]

How do you nest?  Can you post a screenshot?

Where do you add the \ ?

thx

Add the pane "Keywords" to your view.  Edit one of the keywords (F2) and put a slash in it.  You can also drag-n-drop around in the pane to move.

[datdude]

Something is not working right, see the attached screenshot

[Matt]

...  something is not working right, see the attached screenshot

You installed build 392, right?  Is that the standard keywords field?

Anyone else?  It worked first time for me at home.

[datdude]

I thought that myself, confirmed 392 build, and it is the standard Keywords field.

[datdude]

Figured it out.  My standard account is not administrator.

[datdude]

Interesting though, sub items when selected, do not hold their selections in the pane, when clicking around in other panes.

[hit_ny]

Echoing the "interesting" consensus

- Seems it's now possible to reduce the number of panes by enabling pane(s)-in-a-pane.

Going by Matt's screen shot..

Have Events, Pets, People & Places (which would normally need just as many panes) been reduced to just 1 pane !?!

I'm not as yet, used to thinking that way

eg. in a more limited example say Genre & Sub-Genre where a genre might have several sub-genres spanning the entire alphabet.

Genre
|____Sub-genre
          |____a sub-genre
          |____g sub-genre
          |____z genre

The Genre list is much smaller now as its been collapsed/grouped by sub-genre. The immediate benefit i see is less scrolling provided you know where things are.

So in this case easier to find sub-genre's if you are aware of the genre,  less scrolling to get to the g or z sub-genre just click the little triangle. But then if you are searching for a sub-genre and don't know which genre it belongs to, it makes finding the sub-genre harder as its no longer in the list and you have to hunt for it. (assuming the view scheme starts in a collapsed state).

[gappie]

i think it is an interesting feature. gives some nice extra possebilities.

[gappie]

So in this case easier to find sub-genre's if you are aware of the genre,  less scrolling to get to the g or z sub-genre just click the little triangle. But then if you are searching for a sub-genre and don't know which genre it belongs to, it makes finding the sub-genre harder as its no longer in the list and you have to hunt for it. (assuming the view scheme starts in a collapsed state).

i was thinking about this, but when you use listitem ( ) from the expression language, you can make a collumn with all your subgenres only. for when you want to. 

[gappie]

i see one issue though. when making smartlists tec using for instance keywords, it would be nice if also the highest item only (how you call that) could be choosen. 'uni' in the attachment. otherwise you have to select a lot items in some cases, and change the lists everytime something is added.

[dcwebman]

Add the pane "Keywords" to your view.  Edit one of the keywords (F2) and put a slash in it.  You can also drag-n-drop around in the pane to move.

Okay, what am I doing wrong? I have 2 cover arts for Queen and tried to make the two be a subgroup. I have two keywords in each cover art with Queen in both. No matter where I put a \ I can't get it to work.

[dcwebman]

BTW, this is fantastic for images as it's identical to the way I use keywords in Elements Organizer.

[Matt]

If the "Keywords" pane isn't nesting, try restarting the player.

This will be fixed with the next build.

[Craig]

I've not used keywords before but adding people/me;places/home gives me too entries which is great. What would be even better would be if there was some method of copying my people, places, events tags into the keyword field.

Craig

[Matt]

I've not used keywords before but adding people/me;places/home gives me too entries which is great. What would be even better would be if there was some method of copying my people, places, events tags into the keyword field.

Next build:
NEW: Added expression function ListCombine(List1, List2, Delimiter (optional, defaults to semicolon)) to combine list type fields.

So in-place edit keywords in the list and type:
=ListCombine([Keywords], [People])

And again:
=ListCombine([Keywords], [Places])

etc.

[glynor]

Wow.  Fancy pants.  That'll be useful for more than just this purpose.

[gappie]

Next build:
NEW: Added expression function ListCombine(List1, List2, Delimiter (optional, defaults to semicolon)) to combine list type fields.

So in-place edit keywords in the list and type:
=ListCombine([Keywords], [People])

And again:
=ListCombine([Keywords], [Places])

etc.

Yesss!, thats nice. 

[Craig]

Yesss!, thats nice. 

Yes, and only 9 minutes after I posted it

[gappie]

and then to realize that expressions also work as pane headers. cant wait..

[hit_ny]

BTW, this is fantastic for images as it's identical to the way I use keywords in Elements Organizer.

I'm thinking the documents ppl also are going to have a ball with this. Much more fluid, add keywords/tags wherever you feel like.

Not seeing any use yet as a mainly Audio person with it tho.

[Doof]

I'm thinking the documents ppl also are going to have a ball with this. Much more fluid, add keywords/tags wherever you feel like.

Not seeing any use yet as a mainly Audio person with it tho.

That brings up an interesting question... how is this going to handle tags that already have \ in them? Like filenames and such? Could we wind up seeing a single pane, location-based view that's basically just a tree in the pane?

[gappie]

If we stick with this, any field will be nestable. 

at this moment, version 395, it only works for list fields. will the other fields also be nestable in the feature?
also, when i make a calculated field using the &datatype= [ list ] it does not work, would be extremely nice if it would. especially together with the ListCombine it would be a very powerfull tool.

[)p(]

This build [12.0.392] reworks panes and browser schemes.  This may cause browsing or tagging mode problems.

These changes enable fields to be nested.  For now, only Keywords are nestable.  Use a \ when editing to create a folder.  You can also drag-n-drop to the Keywords pane, rename, or use tagging mode.

Here's a screenshot:
http://www.pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Nested_Keywords/

Wow, I just asked a few days ago for nestable keywords for improved tagging and here it is

Great work, thanks!

Peter

[)p(]

Maybe you should consider using / instead of \. When you currently import images tagged with windows vista photo tagger the nested keywords import to mc already like this. Ie People/Family/Peter. If you would change \ to / these would automatically appear nested in mc too.

peter

[)p(]

Should expanded items persist across sessions (currently they're remembered for the session)?  Or should it default to expanding everyting?  Or expanding nothing?

Should there be a way to expand "All" or a new item "Flat List" to see all the values as one big list?  If this is there, should the flat list look like Family\Matt or just Matt?

The current behavior, remember for the session is imho ok.

Expand "All" and "Flat List": I personally don't need those options. If You add "Flat List" then I would in your example show just Matt.

peter

[morrison]

looks great, thanks!

[darichman]

I've been away for a week and I come back to this! An early Christmas present

Currently I have my "Places" stored in separate Country, State, City, Place fields... I'll have some fun putting them together into a single nested field.
People is definitely another area to benefit from this

Nice work

[Doof]

Should expanded items persist across sessions (currently they're remembered for the session)?  Or should it default to expanding everyting?  Or expanding nothing?

I say it should remember what was expanded across sessions. This is consistent with other aspects of Windows.

Should there be a way to expand "All" or a new item "Flat List" to see all the values as one big list?  If this is there, should the flat list look like Family\Matt or just Matt?

Any chance we could have both? I could see a need for it to act both ways. I think there should be a way to expand/collapse all, and a flat list. If you do the flat list, I vote for just "Matt" instead of "Family\Matt".

[rjm]

12.0.395

This feature may have introduced an undesirable side effect.

In my panes I no longer see the value "Unassigned" for items that do not have a value assigned to the field.

I rely very heavily on "Unassigned".

For example, I created a field "Quality" that I populate after I listen to the media. By selecting Unassigned in the Quality pane I can view all files that I have not yet listened to.

Another application is checking that audio analysis has been done. I do audio analysis on all audio files that I import. I created a special view that exposes the audio analysis fields so I can check for Unassigned to see if I missed any files.

Another application of Unassigned is for consistency checks on my library. I require that a value be entered into some fields like genre, keyword, artist, and album. After importing and tagging new media I do a final quality control check by ensuring there are no unassigned values in the panes.

I am going to reinstall 12.0.388 until this gets resolved.

[Matt]

When you type a letter it searches everywhere including collapsed branches (unlike a normal tree control). 

This may reduce the need for a flat-list.

[gummbah]

Is this also going to work for audio fields related fields like album or name?
I really like the idea of nesting the songs under an album.

[ThoBar]

Is this also going to work for audio fields related fields like album or name?
I really like the idea of nesting the songs under an album.

Drooooling in anticipation.....

[)p(]

Matt did you read my suggestion above to use / instead of \ to delimit nested tags to make it compatible with windows use of nested keywords for images?

Before I start nesting my image keywords in mc I would like to know if the \ is definitive, else I will hold off until a decision is made about which (or both?) delimiter you will support. My vote of course would be /

thanks,

Peter

[hit_ny]

I really like the idea of nesting the songs under an album.

Not immediately seeing why this may be a good idea ?

[gummbah]

Not immediately seeing why this may be a good idea ?

This would be in particular helpful if it is possible in the viewing pane (not sure if that is what it is called, but I refer to the lower part of the screen in the screenshot http://www.pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Nested_Keywords/)
It would be another way of browsing through your media. Instead of having a list of thousands of songs, you would have a list of albums, and when clicking on it, it would expand to show the songs in that particular album.

Is that more clear? Not sure how else to explain.

[Matt]

Matt did you read my suggestion above to use / instead of \ to delimit nested tags to make it compatible with windows use of nested keywords for images?

Media Center will use backslash as a delimiter, and possibly forward slash as an escape character.  This is to remain consistent across the program.

If forward slash is more common in the XMP tag, we will convert at tag read / write time.

Next build:
Changed: Nested keywords are saved and loaded to XMP and ITPC tags using forward slash as the delimiter instead of backslash.

[Lasse_Lus]

This is great 

exaktly what i needed 

[hit_ny]

This would be in particular helpful if it is possible in the viewing pane (not sure if that is what it is called, but I refer to the lower part of the screen in the screenshot http://www.pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Nested_Keywords/)
It would be another way of browsing through your media. Instead of having a list of thousands of songs, you would have a list of albums, and when clicking on it, it would expand to show the songs in that particular album.

Is that more clear? Not sure how else to explain.

If i understand what you are saying its that you would like to have the same nestable feature in the files view ?..that lower part of the screen.