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Author Topic: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond  (Read 5138 times)

benn600

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Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« on: January 23, 2008, 03:10:24 pm »

For as little discussion as possible, I'm writing these words for only those interested in helping protect themselves from these horrific events.

This story is not suitable for individuals under the age of 30.  You've been warned.

We were without internet for around 29 hours.  After switching our DSL ISP from MSN to Qwest.net and an hour phone call, I finally get told that I need a new modem late last night.  Funny how they never told me that during the call to switch ISP's.  They told me to call the billing department so I woke up much earlier than I usually do to call sharply at 8 AM. But then it was sounding like we would have to order a modem and that would mean Monday or Tuesday.  If at all possible, that would not work.  Lots of our stuff (email) is hosted here so I couldn't go that long.  Luckily, Best Buy had the modem we needed and I was able to pick one up only minutes after they opened this morning.

One final call to get info on setting it up and we were finally back up!  Yes, email can start coming in and I'm all done!  Or can it?

So I open my email and see three Promise Controller Messages.  Yes, it said the raid array was in a Critical state!  First, that means that TWO drives have failed.  Second, I go to the server and it only shows Degrade, which is much less concerning.  So I immediately obtain my external backup drives to start updating them.  Stupidly, I've been meaning to update them for over a week but kept forgetting!  So here I am with a few hundred gigabytes that need emergency backups.  I get every computer going copying anything I can fit and wait.  Unfortunately, I'm two hours away from having to be to class and they are estimating 3+ hours.  I let them run until the last minute.

So I finally decide I have to stop and try to get it rebuilding.  I find a drive...one that failed a month ago but works fine in an external enclosure (and I don't have a brand new one).  I get it ready and stick it in the empty drive slot.  All the drives immediately shut down.  Every backup around the house stops and I get about 25 messages through Promise WebPam telling me that each drive was unplugged and the appropriate status it took the array to--which was well beyond Offline.  Then the drives start turning back on and it's in Critical state.  It starts rebuilding drive 4 and says the drive I added is offline.

It's about 25% done rebuilding now and luckily it goes much faster for RAID5 rebuilding than the second parity.  When it's done, I'll try to get the 16th drive going and hopefully everything will be back to normal.

Whatever they call hot-swap, this ain't.  Last time I tried hot swapping it I had the same problem.  It's really about as annoying as it gets.  Honestly, I don't think my next card will be a Promise.  As solid as it has been for 9 months, the seemingly continuous and unnecessary drive "failing" plus this hot swappable issue destroy the credibility.  So far I haven't lost anything but when I plugged the drive in, the drive was immediately lost on the server.  Luckily it came back.  I'm not a fan of luckily.

The only way I can avoid this issue is to shut the server off, take out and replace the drive, then boot up.  It will then start rebuilding.  But isn't the whole point of hot-swap so you don't have to do that?!  This is crazy!

Oh yea, and the email wasn't going through because the new modem is sort of a router and I had to DMZ smoothwall.

So several compounding issues all on the same horrific day or two.
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fitbrit

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 03:46:52 pm »

For as little discussion as possible, I'm writing these words for only those interested in helping protect themselves from these horrific events.

This story is not suitable for individuals under the age of 30.  You've been warned.

We were without internet for around 29 hours.

I'm 39 and could not read any further than this. I think I need a therapist, even if there's a happy ending.
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2008, 04:29:26 pm »

I thought that was a good opening line to the story.
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johnnyboy

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2008, 04:46:05 pm »

Every time I read all your stories for your RAID's and think about the fact I just have all my stuff sitting on individual drives with no backup instead of thinking I should do backup's and go for RAID I always think how much more reliable my single drives are lol.
I've only had one failed drive in 10+yrs.

I do love your stories though, you're the computer equivalent to a soap opera (in a good way) - anything that can go wrong will lol.
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KingSparta

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2008, 04:54:04 pm »

It Is All Very Scary

No Internet!

"Oh My God" (Valley Girl Talk)

Benn's Raid System Scares Me
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gappie

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2008, 05:19:22 pm »

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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 05:45:20 pm »

Benn's Raid System Scares Me
All RAID scares me! Just more opportunity for failure and best avoided unless necessary.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 05:55:56 pm »

I do love your stories though, you're the computer equivalent to a soap opera (in a good way) - anything that can go wrong will lol.

Hehe, I'm always looking for the next episode.   :)

benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 09:25:10 pm »

Everytime I go through these major issue resolution processes, I always try to decide if it's worth writing about.  I usually decide yes because not only does it preserve my story in time (assuming the forum stays up and their web server RAID doesn't fail, LOL) but it gives me a chance to recount my blessings as I usually have a happy ending.

It is rebuilding the final drive right now so it looks like I'm home free to 100% recovery.  Again, everyone always feels fortunate to not have all my troubles--but remember I really didn't have any true loss.  I got a little scared but am pleased with the "recovery" if you can even call it that.  If my RAID card correctly supported hot-swap, I'd be fine.  The fix is to shut the system down and replace the drive, which is what I did this time.  I don't have problems if I do that.  It just immediately starts rebuilding when I start the computer back up--it sees the unused drive and claims it.

The sad truth is that space is becoming tight.  I may need to seriously consider expanding space by the summer time.  Of course with my ongoing video projects, I know I could empty a few hundred gigabytes.

It's great when I finally resolve the issues and can sit down at a computer, log on, and not see tons of errors--which is what happens when the server is down.  This is because (the) desktop, my documents, music, pictures, auto wallpaper changer, Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, Media Center, etc. are all stored 100% on the server.  And the locations point to it.  So when it's not up, everything gets messed up.
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John Gateley

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2008, 09:46:04 pm »

...(assuming the forum stays up and their web server RAID doesn't fail, LOL)...

It is perhaps better to think of RAID as an uptime improver than a backup. RAID will keep
your server up while you replace the bad drive, instead of replacing the drive and then
restoring from your backup (which you kept safe in a couple of places, including offsite).

So, if our web server RAID did fail, completely, it'd take us a little bit of time to throw
more disk drives in and restore from the backup, but we'd be back up soon.

j

hit_ny

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 01:05:56 am »

It is perhaps better to think of RAID as an uptime improver than a backup. RAID will keep
your server up while you replace the bad drive, instead of replacing the drive and then
restoring from your backup (which you kept safe in a couple of places, including offsite).

So, if our web server RAID did fail, completely, it'd take us a little bit of time to throw
more disk drives in and restore from the backup, but we'd be back up soon.

In an ideal world that's what's done, but poor Benn got 7TB on his server, to have a backup of it all would need yet another 7TB and if as he says, by summer it will probably rise again by yet another 1 TB  !!

Benn, you asked long ago of why ppl don't put video online, that too in verbatim ie uncompressed, and most replied they did not bother and preferred optic media.

Now you now know why :D
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 09:07:15 am »

Exactly.  When you're storing optical media on a server, you just can't back it up.  There is a huge exception for my CD collection.  Not only did I spend tons of time ripping, scanning cover art, and rating but I even cleaned tags up by hand as I deemed necessary.  So backing this up is a must.

As of now, I really need to revamp my backup strategy and fast.

1. I use two 500GB My Book's which I keep sort of offsite but not completely.  Any suggestions on the best place to keep them?  I feel compelled to encrypt the data so I don't worry about where I store them but I'm always worried that somehow the decryption key could get lost and staring at my own, inaccessible encrypted data would be about the worst feeling possible.

2. I have optical media backups but they are spread out and random.  I need a good system for making completely accurate backups with a nice program to track what files have been backed up, when, what disc they are on, etc.  For something so vital, I would want CRC values generated each time a scan is done--so just checking for modified files would take a very long time.

3. So to revamp my backup strategy, ideally I would order two 1TB drives and use them in place of the dual 500's.  This helps because I don't have the top portion of each drive wasted as overhead and in that case, I end up storing chunks of datatypes on the two drives.  So with two drives I could more easily take them to other locations.  Or three of them?  One would stay here and two would be in two different locations--one at work and one at a friend's house.
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hit_ny

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 09:43:49 am »

When you're storing optical media on a server, you just can't back it up. 

So don't store it online, just keep it on the disc !

..not only will you be saving tons of cash, and the headache that comes with it.

How hard can it be to just pick it out off a disk folder on your shelf ;) get some one else to fish it out the next time

You can use MC to catalog offline stuff so select what you want then go pop in the dvd when it asks for it.
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newsposter

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 10:08:18 am »

and all of the 'redundancy' in the world is useless if you haven't tested and tested again recovery scenarios.

Things do not 'just work'.
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 10:46:28 am »

I don't think anyone in this household is willing to give up what we have been using for months.  The Media Center interface to all of our media.  Our optical media sits boxed up in our spare room (around 2000 purchased discs).  The more everyone gets used to it the more they can't give it up.  With a large server and the power of Media Center, media is essentially taken care of.  Period.  It's as good as it gets.

I've been used to sitting at my computer and pulling up a movie in 3 seconds.  Yep, a random movie that something reminded me of.  Just the other day I started trying to imagine what it would be like not having that...basically what I have for music for DVDs, too.  I can't even imagine not watching an arbitrary title at the drop of a mouse button or two.  We are cleaning out a basement "junk" room and it wasn't even a question--we need a HTPC in there.  We spend a lot of money on digital content and we like to utilize it.

As far as recovery scenarios go: I'm not aiming to backup our DVDs.  I have them all boxed up and in books so in the worst case, I can just copy them over again.  Recovery scenarios are great if you don't have any.  I think the key is getting the data backed up.  It doesn't take a genius to copy data from a backup to the main storage array.

What fun discussing all these issues...
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bspachman

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 05:16:05 pm »

You know, I've suffered through some double and triple RAID drive failures myself. I find that it's impractical to back up all the optical media I've got stored on my server (and I only have 3.5TB), but that's why I'm so in love with the APL/APE system. I just need to backup the APL files (at 1-4k apiece) and the cover art.

When the worst happens, it's a chore to re-rip all the image files, but EAC & Monkey's audio do the heavy lifting....so I restore the APLs, CUE and cover art from backup and just get rippin'... :)

brad
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 07:12:23 pm »

Woah.  Can you expand on that a bit?  What exactly are you talking about?

I have no problem backing up my CDs and will always back them up.  DVDs are not practical to backup a second time...obviously.
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newsposter

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2008, 07:33:37 pm »

a decent backup program will be able to backup the directory structure only.  This should make it easier to re-rip DVDs if/when it ever becomes necessary.
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2008, 08:04:48 pm »

I see what you mean.  I actually do backup my cover art and folder structure from time to time.  I should back it up again.
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newsposter

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2008, 12:56:32 pm »

and by backup the directory structure I mean the directory trees ONLY without any user data.

When you are restoring, set the restore program to recreate the directory structure FIRST, then put data in.  This makes things go loads faster.
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jgreen

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2008, 01:07:34 pm »

Is the Internet still a series of tubes?  I haven't been paying attention.
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fitbrit

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 03:31:13 pm »

Everytime I go through these major issue resolution processes, I always try to decide if it's worth writing about.  I usually decide yes

Good God, man! You mean there's stuff we don't hear about???
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gappie

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 04:51:46 pm »

Good God, man! You mean there's stuff we don't hear about???
i always enjoy the stories from benn. this corner of the forum would be rather dull without him. i just hope he buys old VW bus someday.
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fitbrit

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 05:12:56 pm »

i just hope he buys old VW bus someday.

Why stop there? It could be a hit series.
.       [Name]                  [genre] [Resolution]  [Vid cdc] [Aud cdc] [Aud]             [Comment]
The Ben Show! S02 E04   sitcom    720p            h264      AC3        5.1   Ben takes a cooking course with hilarious consequences.
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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 05:45:51 pm »

Thankfully my name is actually Ben and not Benn as everyone seems to call me.  Is that a problem with my username?  I've just always used the second n because it relates to me.
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gappie

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2008, 06:36:37 pm »

I've just always used the second n because it relates to me.
well Ben, that is why you always be benn to us. im Gab, but gappie or gabber is fine with me.
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NickM

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2008, 11:17:45 pm »

I sympathise with Ben(n).
I am using a combination of TeraStations and a SnapServer all RAID5.
Now I'm look at the newer X-RAID format and guess that the additional cost will be far more than offset by the longer use of older mis-matched disks. A new XR5 on the way soon - just had to wiat for one to appear that was networked as opposed to USB.
This is the start of the project...  I'll have to go and take a picture later of the current state of the project.

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benn600

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Re: Horror Story About Internet And Way Beyond
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2008, 12:03:21 am »

Nice setup!  I know I need to get my server in a better location with a rack at some point.
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