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[SBrandsborg aka Mouseman]

Hey all
Can it realy be true there is no new build this week???

[JimH]

For once, we're working in private.

Next week, a build that fixes some bugs and adds QuickTime 6 support.

Version 9 is well under way.  It makes the database more customizable, simplifies editing properties, and adds IMAGES!  Import your digital camera images and make slideshows, mix with music, etc.  If you know acdsee, you'll have an idea.  But it doesn't get in your way if you just want to do music.  No added complexity.

It also adds cover art thumbnails, so you can select your music even if you can't read.

Matt, step in here if you want to.

Thanks, mouseman, for reporting the news about MJ.

screenshot

[bigcuedaddy]

digital picture support is a VERY cool idea!!  Cant wait!!!

Listening to: 'Act Out Your Fantasy' from 'Blackstone' by 'Blackstone' on Media Jukebox

[SBrandsborg aka Mouseman]

That looks very nice
i have added a little news about it in my plugin...

[Wile]

I'm torn.

The idea of images and slideshows sounds great.

>>If you know acdsee, you'll have an idea.

I know ACDSee... and I know some of the people who wrote it. ACD Systems is a local company, and I have friends who work there. I suppose competition is a good thing... it makes for better products... but in this case, I kinda hope there is no winner.

It's probably no big deal... more just my two bits... from north of the border.

[sekim]

So that comment about being the boss was true? MJ 9 exists?

The questions are mounting.

Listening to: 'Superhero' from 'Attak' by 'K.M.F.D.M.' on Media Jukebox VERSION 8

[nila]

Great about version 9.
A few suggestions,
- Better Album support.
- Try to integrate it with AV v2 that Rhino is working on
- The ability to add custom buttons to the toolbars
- The ability to give playlists keyboard shortcuts
- Tool to find duplicate songs
- Even smarter tools for writing names from tags and visa versa
(for getting from file name - break name up into parts depending on the number of - 's (or whatever the user specifies) and then have rules for each size (3 parts = artist - track # - title, 4 = artist - album - track # - title, etc)
- Ability to have the ripper also create a .sfv
- Ability to check mp3's for consistancy, possibly create a CRC for each track and save it in a field in the mp3, then have it also be able to go through the mp3's and check them all against their saved CRC value (Just had a FAT table crash and managed to recover a lot of them but have no way of testing which are fully recovered and which are dodgy so having to re-rip them all. Other scenarios too where this feature might be nice and it's also just nice to be able to check the collection to make sure it's undamaged).
- Possibly give each track imported into the jukebox a unique ID number and save this in an id3 v2 tag so that even if the file name and location of the track is changed MJ can recognise the mp3 again and have it's info.
- Last Played property for each song
- Total number of times played property for each song.
- Auto import of any cover art for albums when importing songs (look at AV for how this could be implemented)
- Ability to choose a buffer size for burning
- Ability to specify specific file names defined by the id3 tags for songs that are to be burnt to data cd's (ie make the file name from: artist - track # - title) which would be useful to prevent truncating at 256 chars.
- ability to customise cd layout better when burning
- Ability to get CD info for a cd in the drive without having to make it playing now
- Send to playlists have a hierarchy like the one set up in MJ.
- Customisable number of 'memories' for the send to menu as right now it remembers the last one chose but cant remember two or more.
- Ability for data cd's to do a check to see if the same song has been added more than once.
- Ability to get MJ to read a data cd and then remake the CD (I have a bunch of data mp3 cd's that I've made that have got scratched.  I'd love to just burn the whole cd again from new with the same songs but I cant copy the cd directly cause it's pretty badly scratched so the copy would have the same errors in the songs and my only other option is to manually do it for all the cd's which is long winded and a pain. MJ could (possibly using the unique id tag idea I suggested) read the track listings and just rebuild the structure either from the ID or from artist and title name.
- More options for ripping - I'd like these options:
   - Rip whole cd then encode whole cd
   - Rip all the tracks but start encoding in the background after each track is ripped
   - Rip each track one by one and encode between tracks
   - Rip and encode simultaneously

- Possible complete development of the web plugin to make it a fully functional, highly customisable tool that would be hugely useful (user defined html and css for the output along with the ability to enque, add, make playlists etc)
See what a helpful guy I am, all these lovely ideas for you guys


Oh yeah, and about the mention of ACDSee - I just wanted to give my two cents worth. I LOVE MJ as my jukebox program for handling all my audio and video and I think it does a great job at it. I'd never use it for my images etc however because I have specific programs that are designed specifically for that job and do a great job of it and offer a lot of features. The guys that make it are graphics specialists and know all about graphics. You guys are Audio specialists and know all about that - the fact that Matt even came up with his own compression format just prooves to what extent.
Trying to cover too great a ground will just mean you'll have to charge more and people wont want the extra areas MJ will cover, they want it for their songs.

I dont like programs that try to do everything mainly because it usually means they dont do anything specifically and dont do any of the things particularly well. MJ does my songs amazingly and I'd hate to see it loosing focus on the main area is covers and does a great job at.

I personally would rather you spent your valuable time focusing on extra audio features rather than on moving into the graphics market too and I have a feeling a lot of your users would agree.


This is long I know but that's only cause v9 is gonna be great I'm sure so I just thought I'd throw out all the ideas I could think of.

Feel free to let me know what you think of them all.

[Swordsman74]

Interesting screenshot, Jim!!  I see Windows file folders on the left pane - will MJ be able to function as a replacement to Windows Explorer too???  That could be useful...

[SBrandsborg aka Mouseman]

Yes that coud be very cool... i know in Win 9x you can do it but i dont know if you can do it in xp or 2000 or .net

[SBrandsborg aka Mouseman]

by the way.... when you are taking a screenshot try holding "alt" down and it will only take a shot of the active window

[Matt]

Jim, loose lips sink ships

I'd never use it for my images etc however because I have specific programs that are designed specifically for that job and do a great job of it and offer a lot of features. The guys that make it are graphics specialists and know all about graphics.

For whatever it's worth, I wasn't too sure about the idea of adding images to Media Jukebox either.  But WOW -- now that it's there, I absolutely love it.  No offense, but for me, it blows my previous favorite ACDSee out of the water.  So, all I ask is that you wait and give it a chance before passing judgement.

As for being a specialist -- well, don't tell anyone, but I think our users usually know more than us.  We just try to listen.

Take care everyone.

-Matt
JRiver, Inc.

[nila]

Well at least it's nice to know you were initially as sceptical as me to begin with. Shows that your thinking normally not getting plans to take over the world

[ashra]

I wholeheartedly agree with Nila.

This must surely be a joke!

But if you are going to go that far, how about adding a wordprocessor in v.10 so I can catch up on my correspondence after looking at my digital photos.

[ashra is sharing an address with "Karen" today -- who will she be tomorrow? -- JimH]

[sekim]

Gee Nila, you forgot to add support for using burner as pizza maker. yukyukyuk.

The tag editing features would be nice. I'd like to see MJ able to work with a word processer or speadsheet app and actully be able to use the edited info from such said app. As it is now, MJ can export to these programs, but getting the updated info back into MJ is impossible. I know this had been mentioned before. I just think these types of programs handle mass editing tasks much faster then the current MJ.

>>> Ability to get CD info for a cd in the drive without having to make it playing now <<<

Definite vote of approval here. Would like to just get the info and leave it at that.

[JimH]

For those who don't use MJ as an image database, you'll never need to know it's there.  The image features are nearly identical to the audio/video features, so very little had to change in order to add images.

Imagine pictures instead of visualizations.  That's how smoothly it can work.

It won't edit images, but it will link to an editor.

[DocLotus]

Hi Everyone;

I’ve used ACDSee version 1, 2, 3, & now 4.  It’s the best one out there.  The next best is ThumbsPlus .  After that there are a lot of wannabes.  One problem most of them have (with the sole exception of ACDSee) is that they are very slow with thumbnails.  ACDSee continues to be amazingly fast.  So,,, Keep the speed issue in mind JRiver if you really want to compete with ACDSee.

I totally agree with Nila about the addition of an ACDSee like graphic interface… It’s very hard to be a really great jack of all trades (see above paragraph).  Look how long it has taken Microsoft to finally come up with a Windows that finally works (17 years to get to XP & there are still some small issues).

However, I’m really tired of having to use many different Explorer-like programs to do essentially the same thing… manage files!

I currently use the following for file management…
* General file management… PowerDesk 5.0, & Windows Explorer.  They both do thumbnails (sort of) but are very slow at that task as it was an afterthought (take note JRiver).
* Images… ACDSee… very fast & extremely flexible (the Media Jukebox of images).
* Music… MJ 8 (need I say more?).

I have always been miffed as to why so many similar programs (file managers) can’t do it all.  I really want to see one really great file manager (JRiver… Is that you?  Someday?).

The speed issue… MJ 9 may need to have a new basic engine tuned towards graphics to address the speed issue that so far only ACDSee seems to of long ago resolved.

My overall response to an ACDSee like interface in MJ 9 is… Go for it!  If it turns out to be to slow or inflexible, I can always turn it off & continue to use the real ACDSee.

HAVE FUN!!!

[JimH]

Doc,
Thanks for the feedback.  

> I’ve used ACDSee version 1, 2, 3, & now 4. It’s the best one out there. The next best is ThumbsPlus . After that there are a lot of wannabes. One problem most of them have (with the sole exception of ACDSee) is that they are very slow with thumbnails. ACDSee continues to be amazingly fast.

Can you give us a time benchmark to shoot at?  That would be very helpful.

> I totally agree with Nila about the addition of an ACDSee like graphic interface… It’s very hard to be a really great jack of all trades (see above paragraph).

Here's another screenshot that shows MJ9 in a more familiar view.

However, I’m really tired of having to use many different Explorer-like programs to do essentially the same thing… manage files!

> I currently use the following for file management…
> * General file management… PowerDesk 5.0, & Windows Explorer. They both do thumbnails (sort of) but are very slow at that task as it was an afterthought (take note JRiver).

We're listening, Doc.

> * Images… ACDSee… very fast & extremely flexible (the Media Jukebox of images).
> * Music… MJ 8 (need I say more?).

MJ?  What's that?  

> I have always been miffed as to why so many similar programs (file managers) can’t do it all. I really want to see one really great file manager (JRiver… Is that you? Someday?).

Maybe version 10.

> The speed issue… MJ 9 may need to have a new basic engine tuned towards graphics to address the speed issue that so far only ACDSee seems to of long ago resolved.

All I can say about speed is that I've used both programs (MJ and ACDsee) and it's pretty close.  

Thanks for the feedback.  We're glad to hear the negatives as well as the positives.  Keep it coming.

[Mirko]

I use to make _very_ much digi-pictures when I'm in vacation. So I easy come back with a couple of hundred pictures to name, organize and enhance ("history").
At this moment I use quite a couple of programs for doing so. ACDSee for browsing, Photoshop for the history-thing and winXP-printing (yes, heard right: It's the best one I could find). It would be very good, if browsing and printing (look at the XP-printing) could me made using MJ.

Then. If I can manage my pictures using MJ I really would like to export some of them ("playlist for pictures") onto a cdrom _with_ generated thumbnails or maybe even slideshow (html-files).

To push it to the limit, an export for pictures with html _and_ music playing in the background would be ... well, nice :-)

If you could ever do VCD-writing, then this would be welcome by me very much. Just yesterday I wished, I could have an easy "menu-generator" for VCDs. But I've got Nero :-/

[zevele]

THANK YOU for Quicktime pluging

Concerning 9

Can you make some plug-in like

Find songs in double or more

Find incomplete songs

get song infos for more than one songs

the same for change tags

to make short the all in one mp3 AND OGG fonctions

In my opinion you can charge for it as you do for slide show,on the top of the jukebox price

You may even have 2 versions

the MJ plug-in at cheap price

the plain program to be use without MJ at higger price

[sekim]

Another thought about future features...

When you click on 'Media Library' it tells how many files are in the library at the bottom of the screen. A nice addition to this would be how many 'Albums' there are. Maybe it isn't really necessary, but the collector in me wants to know this without having to go thru 'Statistics' all the time.

Or...

Custom toolbar buttons for stuff like this. Either would work for me.

[Kurt Young]

I'd love to see an iPod plugin!  Not for the new PC-compatible iPods, but for standard Mac iPods.  That'd be schweeet.

[Duane]

Images aren't what turns me on...

What I like, among other MJ strong points, is file management.  One thing that would be great is a "File Compare" type of feature that "looks" for identical files and either prompts you to delete duplicates, or does so automatically.

With over 2,000 MP3's on different drives that I use as back- ups, that seems to be the thing I "wish for" most.

Thanks and keep up the awesome work.

[DocLotus]

Hi Jim;

> Can you give us a time benchmark to shoot at? That would be very helpful.

Using ACDSee 3 or 4, bring up a folder with 1000 thumbnails in it.  The thumbnails will come up almost instantaneously.  I know of no other image manager that can do that!  The very first time after you add the new images, it will take a while (up to a minute or so) to build the initial disk cache database.  After that, warp 10 !!

> All I can say about speed is that I've used both programs (MJ and ACDsee) and it's pretty close.

Haven’t seen or used the new MJ 9 beta yet.  If it can keep up with ACDSee, all I can say is WOW!!

Jim, no matter what, keep going with MJ9… you really got my interest up on this one.

[KingSparta]

DocLotus

http://www.CPIC.com

Photodex Makes it and it is the best slidshow\photo managing program out there bar none.

A Bit Of Disco (Got To Love It)

Listening to: 'Last Dace In Copacabana' from 'Hold Up' by 'Superfunk' on Media Jukebox

[sekim]

I just thought of another one. Real time updating of the Media Library.

Example -

Ripping would show files as they are added in to the library. Converting formats likewise. There may be some others but those two stand out right now.

[nila]

Gotta say,
Wouldn't be too into the idea of MJ as a file manager.
The reason there isn't one that does it all is because trying to do too much just cant be done well and cant provide any one thing properly enough. Most file managers have a very simple graphics viewer included but thats it.
Use a dedicated image browsing/viewing program and it can also give you the basic tools you want for your images, flipping, rotating, cropping, making a slide show of the images etc. Because it's a specialised tool it can focus on what people want to do with those types of files (images).
With audio the things people want to do are totally different and thats why it's nice to have a dedicated audio program. All audio shares similar traits - a singer/compiler/maker - the title of the song - year it was released etc and so no matter what audio format it's in it all shares the same qualities. An audio specific program can focus strongly on these.
Already by adding image viewing the programmers time is being used which means they're working on that area rather than on the audio side. I personally would have rather the time had been used on say building in something like an Album View functionality.
Dont get me wrong Jim, Matt or any of you other MJ guys, I'm not trying to have a go at you just doing a bad job explaining that you guys are all EXTREMELY knowledgeable on audio and by trying to cover too big an area it's going to take your time away from what your amazing at.
Wouldn't it make more sense to devote your energy into other audio type features, maybe a basic wav editor just so that we can mix a few tracks together or edit the start or end of a song or mix two together, a tempo function, or just other stuff that's directly related to audio and so would make MJ that much more powerful an audio tool??

Anyway, the image browsing is something alot of people might like.
I personally love the addition of a my computer explorer type browsing mode as it will make it a LOT easier for me to tag files that I just got.

One other feature I'd LOVE is the ability to filter my Library. I know this can already be done by smart playlists but one filter I REALLY often want to add is the ability to only show artists with more than X songs in a playlist as I have some artists with only one song which is from a compilation album and they really beef up my artist list and when I'm looking for an artist to listen to this is annoying. I'm sure you've experienced it too. If I could filter it to only show artists with more than say 5 songs it'd get rid of those artists who are in compilation albums only.


Anyway, not going to try to tell you how to run your company or make your program. Just my view point. I dont want anything bad to happen to my prescious MJ, I love it too much.

Oh yeah, and as far as graphics viewers, I used to think ACDSee but they started adding stupid things like instant messaging and stuff into it which put me off, I didn't want the thing to do everything under the sun, just wanted it to manage my images and all the added extras I didn't want were turning it more bloaty and memory hungry. Read a review on CompuPic Pro and tried that and found that it was just as fast and had alot more features built in so I've now moved to that.

[MmmmJoel]

If you're venturing into the imaging world, don't make the grave mistake of stripping the meta data out of digital photographs, aka Windows XP.

[Scronch]

I didn't read every single word in this thread (most, though), so if I missed this, sorry.  I think having MJ handle pictures is fine.  It is MEDIA Jukebox, after all.  My guess is that it is a first step toward the very natural evolution into an audio and video jukebox.  Which is also fine.  I'm just disappointed by the real world limitations of unlimited resources.  There are lots of things in MJ8 I'd like to see cleaned up, and I personally would prefer that those things be addressed before time is spent on photo and video support.  But I do understand that there will always be bugs and improvement requests, and at some point the captain has to bellow "Forward, Ho!", or everyone in the wagon train gets scalped.

Scronch