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[0239666]

When I updated MC12 recently it arranged all the "The's" under "T". I really liked it this way. But when I hooked it up again it reverted back to the ipod standard way. How do I change it back?

[Eccles]

Click Tools - Options - Tree & View - Sorting and deselect "Ignore articles (a, an, the)"

[SwellGuy]

Was iTunes used between the first and second time you used MC?

[0239666]

Ive had that option deslected since I first installed MC12. I dont think thats how you do it. There must be another way. I updated on firmware on iTunes but I hooked up to MC lots of times since the update. Sometimes its sorted correctly and other times it changes back without going near iTunes. Its weird.

[SwellGuy]

How the iPod handles this has changed several times so depending on the version of MC you're running and the version of the firmware on your iPod it might behave differently but this is how it currently works...

The iPod sorts files based on the entry written to the Name (track), Artist or Album fields in the iPod database unless there is an entry in the Sort Name, Sort Artist, or Sort Album fields. In that case, it sorts based on the sorting field value.

Our implementation doesn't write anything to the Sort xxx fields so the iPod will sort by the Name, Artist and Album values. For artists we move all articles ("a", "an" and "the") to the beginning of the name prior to writing to the iPod database, so "Beatles, The" always becomes "The Beatles" on the iPod and will sort in the T's.

If, in your case, "The Beatles" is showing up in the B's. "Beatles" must be getting put in the Sort Artist field. We didn't put it there - I think that is the default behavior or iTunes. Go into iTunes, right click on the file, select "Get Info", select the Sorting tab and note the values in the Sort fields.

Note: We only move the articles to the beginning of the artist name, not for the album of track names, we take them as they are.

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

Could we have an option then to get MC to clear the sort fields in the iPod database?

[SwellGuy]

It's only a problem because the user syncs with iTunes and MC (which is fine). But if we remove the sort fields, iTunes will just add them back.

If you don't like this behavior, make sure the sort fields are blank in iTunes.

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

I don't use iTunes, nor have it on my PC, yet I am getting the articles issue.

[0239666]

To be fair I dont think iTunes is the problem. Ive never actually synced to iTunes. Ive disabled the sync. I only use it for firmware updates.

[SwellGuy]

On what fields? Just artist, just track name, for all fields, etc...

[RhinoBanga]

For me it's the artist.

[0239666]

Just artist for me.

[SwellGuy]

Can one of you send me (rick at jriver dot com) your iTunesDB file and let me know what artist(s) it's happening with?

Thanks,
Rick

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

I can confirm that some of my tracks have the sort fields filled in and other's don't.   Can we have an option to set the sort fields to blank in the iPod database please.   This will save me having to go thru my 11K tracks to remove these.

I don't care that iTunes will add them back since I use MC instead of iTunes.

[SwellGuy]

We may do something to address this in the future (implement our own sort fields or something) but for the time being the only way to clear that information is to delete the offending files from the device and resync them with MC.

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

I think something is still not right.

I used Helium2 to remove all the sort fields for all the tracks for "The Stranglers" and "Suede".

I rebuilt my MC database with b488.

I initialised my iPod with MC.

I transferred the following albums:

   The Stranglers - Blank And White
   Suede - Suede


I disconnected my iPod and the artists were sorted as follows:

   The Stranglers
   Suede


Instead of the expected:

   Suede
   The Stranglers


Ignoring the articles is definately off.   Can you get MC b488 to sort "The's" under "T"?

[SwellGuy]

How did you use Helium2 to remove iTunes and/or iPod database fields?

If you send me your iTunesDB file from the ?:\iPod_Control\iTunes\ folder on your iPod I can look into it.

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

In Helium2 (v2007) I went into the tag editor, zapped the Sort fields and hit apply.

Give me an email address and I'll send you the DB.

[marko]

Give me an email address and I'll send you the DB.

Can one of you send me (rick at jriver dot com) your iTunesDB file and let me know what artist(s) it's happening with?

Thanks,
Rick

[RhinoBanga]

I never read anything backwards ... I'm a forward momentum person

[SwellGuy]

Helium2 allows you to edit iTunes database information?

[RhinoBanga]

No???  I never said that.   I used it to edit my ID3 tags.

[SwellGuy]

MC 12.0.493 has a new option to ignore (and not ignore) leading articles in the artist's name when transferred to an iPod.

[RhinoBanga]

Fantastic Rick, I'll certainly give it a try.   Out of curiosity any reason why you didn't use the existing Options/Tree & View/Sorting/Ignore articles option?   Saves having to remember to set it twice if nothing else.

[SwellGuy]

I thought about that, but I don't know that your preference for sorting in MC necessarily reflects your preference for sorting on the iPod. Maybe it does...

[RhinoBanga]

My opinion would be that it does.   If you detest articles so much that you don't want them in MC I would imagine the same preference would apply to any device.

[RhinoBanga]

Hi Rick,

I just tried this and it works a treat!   Thank you for implementing it.

[SwellGuy]

What's the consensus on leading articles in album and track names?

[RhinoBanga]

In my opinion I think it should be an all or nothing switch for albums and artists.   If you like/dislike articles I can't see why you would want them in some cases and not in others, hence why I also mentioned about using the global View option also.

To clarify when you mentioned tracks will you be still using the primary keys of cd and track number then the name with/without articles?   If so then I personally don't care as I always set these values in my tracks.

[Eccles]

In my opinion I think it should be an all or nothing switch for albums and artists.   If you like/dislike articles I can't see why you would want them in some cases and not in others

I respectfully disagree.  While I don't want The Troggs, The Beatles, and The Fifth Dimension all lumped together under T, I would like A Hard Day's Night in the A's and The Journey among the T's.

[RhinoBanga]

If I was to be honest I would like the albums to be in the format:

   [YYYY] - [Name]


Since that is how I have it in MC ... and on disk ... and in Rockbox.   Of course the articles would be preserved too


The whole idea of sorting is a can of worms to be honest and I am just happy to have artist handled effectively with no sorting.   Especially now that the quick alphabet you get when you fast rotate the click-wheel is usable again.

[SwellGuy]

I'm even pickier. I like "The Beatles" sorted in the B's but I want the artist "A Perfect Circle" sorted in the A's.

And, while I want 'The' ignored for artists, I don't want it ignored for album or track names.

And I agree with RB's album sorting perspective.

[0239666]

Sorted!!!! Thats excellent. I sent an email to Rick. But you can ignore it. Thanks very much.