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Author Topic: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor  (Read 2082 times)

jaybird1206

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Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« on: August 21, 2008, 10:19:10 pm »

I am considering MC12 as the integration tool for my photos, videos and audio. From the video standpoint I have tried all the various settings in the Tools>Options>DVD Playback Options and cannot find any setting that gives results comparable with CyberLink PowerDVD.

With my images which are always in RAW format .nef I cannot find a way that MC12 can interface and be able to capture any edits that I make using the Nikon Capture NX2 software. That is unless I make the edits then export to JPEG or TIFF and let MC manage the exported files. The problem with this is I have to manually manage 2 sets of files, which I am not going to do as I have close to 40,000 pictures. In addition there seems no way to synchronize the XMP/IPTC data managed in the Nikon SW with the metadata in MC, which is a further problem.

My conclusion is, unless I am enlightened, that Media Center is probably the wrong product for what I am trying to do. Any advice or help would be appreciated.
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JimH

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 07:07:02 am »

If the Nikon software is changing the file, MC should be able to recognize changes to it.

Or do you mean that you're changing the tags?

Some of the tag information may only be read on import.  Try a search here for more info.

If you can explain the problem in more detail, it might help. 

This is the article on photo tagging in our Wiki:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Photo_Tagging
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Alex B

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 07:28:36 am »

... From the video standpoint I have tried all the various settings in the Tools>Options>DVD Playback Options and cannot find any setting that gives results comparable with CyberLink PowerDVD. ...

I can't comment on the Nikon raw file issues since I use Canon and Olympus, but I would like to know more about the playback quality differences when compared with PowerDVD. I assume you are not speaking about database handling differences unless PowerDVD has added a media database to the recent versions (I think I have 6 something...)

AFAIK, the biggest difference is that PowerDVD uses its own codec components for decoding video and audio and MC uses the installed DirectShow filters. Some users have even configured MC to use the PowerDVD codecs for decoding DVD video with MC. Actually, you didn't specify what you play. Are you playing DVD discs, ripped DVDs, some more compressed video file format or something else?
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JimH

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 07:36:55 am »

The wiki also has articles on DVD playback and DirectShow.
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Mr ChriZ

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 08:43:49 am »

The wiki also has articles on DVD playback and DirectShow.

Actually the wiki isn't very friendly in this area.  I struggle reading large parts of it and there's bits missing.
I keep meaning to write a quick guide on this one, however I don't feel like I'm an expert either, and time is short.

JimH

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 08:56:51 am »

I think you know this, but if the wiki isn't what you think it should be, you can just correct it.

DirectShow itself isn't friendly.
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BartMan01

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 09:35:16 am »

With my images which are always in RAW format .nef I cannot find a way that MC12 can interface and be able to capture any edits that I make using the Nikon Capture NX2 software. That is unless I make the edits then export to JPEG or TIFF and let MC manage the exported files. The problem with this is I have to manually manage 2 sets of files, which I am not going to do as I have close to 40,000 pictures. In addition there seems no way to synchronize the XMP/IPTC data managed in the Nikon SW with the metadata in MC, which is a further problem.

Welcome to the world of proprietary RAW formats and decoding.  Pretty much no one except Nikon actually does things the 'Nikon' way.  Lightroom (what I use for my photographs) completely ignores most of the proprietary Nikon stuff (like most in-camera color/curve/other settings) and uses it's own proprietary algorithms for decoding.  As long as your are committed to using Nikon's software to manipulate your images, you are stuck in their sandbox until you export to TIFF or JPEG.  Nikon does offer an API for getting at their data, but it is extremely limited.  Any company that is serious about their RAW converter wants access to the actual sensor data, and the API doesn't give this information.  To be fair, I have the same issue with Lightroom in that my edits are stored non-destructivly in side-car files or in the file itself (if converted to DNG) - but only Adobe's software that uses their Camera Raw engine can read and use those develop settings and edits.

I am pretty sure that JRiver still uses DCRaw to interpret the RAW data in to an image.  Since DCRaw does not use the Nikon API, it will not 'see' most settings or changes you have done to those settings via Capture.  Since it also does not use the Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) engine, it does not 'see' anything I have done to the image in Lightroom.  It is just displaying the DCRaw decoded version of the original sensor data captured by the camera - before any exposure changes and adjustments.

For the record, this is not just a 'Nikon' issue.

JRiver has several choices when it comes to RAW files:
1)  License and maintain the various API's from each camera vendor and incorporate the updates to their software as each one changes or releases new cameras.  One major drawback here is that Canon has already 'obsoleted' some older RAW formats and removed them from their API.  That means that using the current Canon API you would not be able to open/view images stored in a format used by some of their older cameras.  Likewise, Nikon is releasing a new consumer P&S with 'RAW' capability - but it is using a new RAW format that is even unreadable by most of their own software at this time.
2)  Create their own RAW engine (that would also ignore most of the 'in camera' stuff).  This is not a trivial undertaking, would take time to get 'right', would require constant updating as new cameras and formats come out, and would be very expensive to do.  It also wouldn't do a thing about your current problem with the RAW files edited in Nikon's software.
3)  Use a third party RAW engine that already does everything they need for all cameras and is updated by that third party.  Unless I am mistaken about DCRaw, this is what they have done.
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 10:17:53 am »

BartMan01 answered this better than I could.

We simply call a slightly modified version of DCRaw.  As it knows nothing of other software it will not grab your settings.  Unfortunately this is an issue for any software.  Nikon, canon, or third party vendor are all the same.  They know nothing of the others. 

Do the nef files contain a large preview jpeg?  If you have a file with some edits that you could post somewhere I can get to I can see if we can do something more interesting.  I would need an untouched nef, and an edited nef.  (A jpeg of what the edited nef should look like wouldn't hurt, either.)  No promises but if there is a decent preview Jpeg maybe we make an option to just show that when displaying those files.

We did use the canon SDK for a while.  The big issue there is exactly what BartMan01 said.  They obsolete cameras and SDKs.  Fine if you can still use the old ones but Microsoft does move on and at some point that will be an issue.

As to Nikon they ignored my request for information about their SDK/API and put me on their spam list.  Which, as a canon user, offends me.   Olympus said that they do not have an SDK but that it is a lot like a tiff so they were sure I could figure it out.  I just kind of assumed Pentax would be out of business by now.
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 10:22:47 am »

One other thing.  Could you provide more information on this ...

Quote
In addition there seems no way to synchronize the XMP/IPTC data managed in the Nikon SW with the metadata in MC, which is a further problem.
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BartMan01

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 11:18:05 am »

Do the nef files contain a large preview jpeg?

It does contain a preview jpeg, and I am pretty sure the newer Nikon cameras use a large image (the old D100 era cameras used a smaller embedded jpg from what I have read).  I know that out of the camera this jpeg is created based on in-camera settings - but I don't know if Nikon's software updated this image when you make changes in Capture NX.

As to Nikon they ignored my request for information about their SDK/API and put me on their spam list.  Which, as a canon user, offends me.   Olympus said that they do not have an SDK but that it is a lot like a tiff so they were sure I could figure it out.  I just kind of assumed Pentax would be out of business by now.

I have read that some of the smaller mfgs are moving to the Adobe DNG format for their RAW images.  Won't believe it till I see it happen though.
As to Nikon's response - it wasn't the quality of their cameras that drove the big shift to Canon a few years ago.  Canon did have an edge in technology for a while - but their support/service/responsiveness to pros and developers was the primary reason.  I know of some pros that only use Canon because the Nikon SDK does not allow for any camera control, while the Canon one does - and Nikon simply refuses to respond to questions or requests about their SDK and (at least used to) requires a non-disclosure to be signed to even get a copy of it (if they even deem you worthy of one).

In interests of full disclosure I am a Nikon user, and my information may be out of date since the last time I really had to deal with this stuff was when they started encrypting some of the critial RAW information (like white-balance used) on the D200 (which is my primary camera).
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jaybird1206

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Re: Using MC12 with Nikon Editor
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 10:03:35 am »

The features I am looking for in cataloging images in MC and editing them in CaptureNX2 including the synchronization of XMP/IPTC metadata can be found in the Microsoft Product "Expression Media 2".  It uses a Nikon Codec that can be downloaded from the Nikon web site. (http://www.nikonimglib.com/nefcodec/) Trial versions of Capture NX2 and Expression Media 2 can be downloaded for anyone interested in this subject. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=CD359E7D-FD27-4901-BAFF-6D564CFBD700&displaylang=en) (http://nikonimglib.com/cnx2/)

I hope this is the proper way to respond to the various responses I got to my original post. Quite frankly I find this forum and MC a bit oriented toward the technical folks. I have retired from software development and just want to be a user. IMO an investment in human engineering to simplify and clarify MC would go a long way toward making the product more user friendly. Also I find this forum thing both good and bad. From a support standpoint I just want to be able to go somewhere and get an answer. Reading through forum responses is good but no substitute for a direct answer to a direct question.
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