Topic: Portable APE Format Players? (Read 4590 times)

khaos10 · « **on:** July 26, 2002, 06:49:17 am »

Are there any portable players that will play the APE format? If not, does anyone know if any manufacturer plans on releasing firmware to support this in the future? I can't stand MP3s.

xen-uno · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2002, 08:08:35 am »

Don't know about APE's, but OGG's (Ver 1) support is just around the bend (according to iRiver) for the SlimX 350. I've suggested to them APE support. MP3's played on the unit (ripped @ ~192 kbs VBR) sound perfect. But I prefer ripping songs with OGG set to -q8 & -q9 so I'll be ready when firmware OGG support is released.

khaos10 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2002, 09:44:23 am »

I prefer APE. When you listen using Sennhieser earphones or your Klipsch speakers, you can hear the imperfections (flat sounding) of MP3s even at the supposed perfect 192kb rate. I was even hesitant about APE at first, but it truly is lossless. The songs sound the same without any flatness. Unfortunately, just as how VHS dominated the VCR market when Beta was much better quality wise, MP3s seem to be engrained into the populace as the music compression format that should be used.

zevele1 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2002, 10:52:45 am »

What do you want ?
A discman able to play APE
Or a memory player able to play APE

One or both does not make sens to me,but i'am curious

xen uno

The iriver is a discman?

scodan · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2002, 11:27:44 am »

Are there any portable players that will play the APE format? If not, does anyone know if any manufacturer plans on releasing firmware to support this in the future? I can't stand MP3s.

A man after my own heart. I have to watch how I slam the MP3 format, lest I offend those who don't own a pair of Sennheiser or Grado headphones.

Have you tried higher bitrates? MP3 doesn't come into its own until at least 256 kbps.

And even though I'll always swear it doesn't sound the same, it does exist for a reason--the much better compression ratio.

Matt · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2002, 11:38:25 am »

Definately doesn't sound the same.

We did double-blind in house tests on $10 phones, and most of us could consistenly pick out the OGG 1.0 or LAME MP3 file, even at the highest possible bitrates.

It's even more obvious on better equipment.

And I'm with you on the Senn's... although ridiculously expensive, I'd recommend Senn HD-600's to anyone -- they just blow me away.

zevele1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2002, 11:56:13 am »

what the use of a player playing APE?

If a discman,most of the time you cannot put 2 cds on one using APE
So better to use the original cd
If a memory player ,you have to buy a hudge memory card to put 2 hours music
Now if you use your Sennheiser hedphones[very expensive ..OF CAUSE] whith your portable player in the street,sure you are not part of the populace as you say.
This is really good news for the populace........

chowbaby · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2002, 12:56:36 pm »

What's with all the love for Sennheiser headphones. Grado's 'll kick their butts any day. Try on a pair of Grado SR-80's, even, and you will finally know what its like have bass response in headphones.

xen-uno · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2002, 02:36:23 pm »

Zevele

1.) SlimX is a disc based player

2.) A nearly 2:1 ratio (CD's per burnt disc) is always better than 1:1 especially if the artist is the same.

>What do you want ?
>A discman able to play APE
>Or a memory player able to play APE
>One or both does not make sens to me,but i'am curious

3.) Why wouldn't you want universal compatibility across all devices?
It makes perfect sense.

4.) I prefer OGG's & APE's, but MP3's can sound pretty damned good if ripped & burnt with the right settings.

scodan · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2002, 02:43:56 pm »

MP3's can sound pretty damned good if ripped & burnt with the right settings.

...and if listened to with $40 speakers or headphones! None of the people who stick up for MP3 have good hearing, have listened to MP3s with top-quality headphones, or both. Anyone can listen to an MP3 on computer speakers and be impressed!

xen-uno · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2002, 03:06:02 pm »

Yes - I'm deaf

I just read lips

To compensate I wrote a program (in assembler) that converts the audio stream into closed captioned text and musical notes on screen. With WAV's & APE's the text/notes are smooth and totally anti-aliased. With OGG's there is a tiny bit of jaggedness but almost non-existant @ -q8 or better. MP3's come through a little bit more jagged and are a tad blurry, but still high quality. I suppose I could pick up the 24" widescreen Sony monitor and run it @ 1960 x 1400 in which I'm sure I would notice more difference in the formats.

Xenno

KingSparta · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2002, 03:30:13 pm »

I kind Of Like To Translate My MP3's Into Morse Code, I Think It Has A Better Sound.

When The Contacts Connect, I Have The Device Send 120volts To My Brain.

Long, Short, Long, Long etc...

After One Song I Am Normaly Ready For Bed.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2002, 04:10:33 pm »

..-. ..- -. -. -.--

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~scp93ch/morse/

scodan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2002, 04:11:16 pm »

xen-uno wrote:
I suppose I could pick up the 24" widescreen Sony monitor and run it @ 1960 x 1400 in which I'm sure I would notice more difference in the formats.

I have the 24" Sony, and the max resolution on it is only 1920 x 1440. Not sure what that has to do with the subject anyway.

KingSparta · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2002, 04:14:36 pm »

JimH

I Thought So, hehe

Wife Is Rollling Her Eyes At Me

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2002, 04:57:22 pm »

What's "funny" is that there actually IS a Morse Code translator.

JGourd · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2002, 06:10:47 pm »

You want good headphones, get Stax. End of Story.

phelt · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2002, 12:16:49 am »

scodan: not all folks who use MP3 have poor hearing or bad equipment. I use it for my portable and for background music since those are circumstances where convenience is more important. In those cases, higher levels of accuracy that are otherwise important are not as relevant as during a true listening session.

Also, you may want to check your manual - mine says the max resolution is 2304x1440.

zevele1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2002, 12:37:20 am »

zen- uno

Good news concerning the disc player playing OGG.

Concerning APE,you are not sure to get a 2-2,1 ratio
You are not sure to be able to put a double cd on one with APE.
Now,if you use compilation ,yes it can be a good thing.
But i rip and listen only to full albums so.........

Now all the stuff"if you play mp3 with a few millions $ stereo,you can head that mp3 are no good and so on

It is JUNK and snobish

I have a good stereo,mp3 ar 192kps are listenable.It is a fair deal space\quality.
This do not means that they sound like the original cd,of cause
But anyway digital is junk,so mp3 is just a little more junk

Look like such an elite -far from the populace- never used a walkman,the sound is so poor!
If you want so much the best quality,just play your cds on your $ 400.000,cd desk and use your computer for emails

I do think that OGG sounds better than mp3

A member of the khaos-tique populace

scodan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:09:16 am »

phelt said:
not all folks who use MP3 have poor hearing or bad equipment.
Also, you may want to check your manual - mine says the max resolution is 2304x1440.

Big difference between using MP3 and claiming it's the total equivalent to a lossless format like APE. It was the second type I was directing my comment at (especially since I still use MP3!).

Doh! You're right--2304 x 1440 is right, there it is on page 20. I was glancing in my Display Properties, and there the max is 1920 x 1440, no doubt due to my video card, not the monitor.

scodan · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:14:02 am »

zevele wrote:
Now all the stuff"if you play mp3 with a few millions $ stereo,you can head that mp3 are no good and so on
It is JUNK and snobish

Last time I'm going to clarify--this is way OT already--I wasn't being "snobbish". MP3 sounds pretty good, definitely listenable, most of the time. The people--the ONLY people--I have any "issue" with on the subject are the goofballs who swear that MP3 is totally, exactly equivalent to the source itself. I mean, admit it; it CAN sound great, but it ain't up to snuff with APE!

My fault for not clarifying at the outset. Sorry for any hurt feelings or whatnot. [group hug / kleenex pass]

KingSparta · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:23:01 am »

I Think MP'3s Sound Better Than The Orginal CD

It Has A Quality Unmatched My Even 78rpm Recordings.

>> Sorry for any hurt feelings
Please Hold My Hand

zevele1 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:42:02 am »

scodan

My answer was not adress to you
as far as i know you do not tend to say that you use portable player with$$$$$$$$$$$$ headphones,and the word populace is not in your posts
I'am with you to say that some mp3[a mix of good encoder and good kp\s] are a very acceptable compromise,but not like the original

APE is not the future.Still to big for most of average users who keep they original 60/80 mg drives and never put a new one[|PLS| than 80% of the people]
Still to big to be a download format-legal or not-There is much more people on moden 56 kps connection than with fast connection
Still to big for any portable player with memory card

According to Matt,APE much smaller than now is not for next week..But we can dream...a APE 4 times smaller than the original........

KingSparta · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2002, 08:12:56 am »

zevele

I Don't think that will happen.

APE is Compressed Now, To Do More To It Means You Will Lose Quality Since You Then Need To Start Striping Off Sound From The High And Low Bands.

scodan · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2002, 08:35:50 am »

zevele wrote:
APE is not the future

It's definitely not for people who (A) obtain all of their music by theft alone; and/or (B) lack the storage space; and/or (C) don't care about original quality.

The cool thing with APE, though, is that whatever the future holds--perhaps a "miracle" format that give true bitwise copies at MP3-like file sizes--you can convert your APE files to that new format without re-ripping.

KingSparta · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2002, 08:46:21 am »

I Do Think For People Like Me There Should Be Some Options To Allow The Loss Of Data

1. Within The Limits Of The Human Ear
2. Within Limits Of The Users Ear.

Maybe With Head Phones MJ Can Allow The User To Hear A Tone, When You Hear It You Press The Mouse Key etc.....

This Way MJ Will Know What You Can Hear Or Not Hear.

With This Info, MJ Can Set It's Self For Data To Give To APE For Use Of Encoding.

This Way All The Not Needed Data Can Be Dumped And What You Can Hear Will Be Saved.

It Sounds Like A Better Way Of Encoding Than A Hard Parm Setting (Low, Med, High Quality) As We Have Now.

zevele1 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2002, 08:49:57 am »

D\ for people who pay for they music as well

Now if you do not stole music-I mean you do not even rip a cd from your friends,family,what is the point to put your own cds on your computer?
Play it on your stereo.If you have a good stereo ,your cd desk is better than any cdr.

By the way I Love music In APE format....

zevele1 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 27, 2002, 09:23:23 am »

HEY HEY HEY

KingSparta · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2002, 10:00:56 am »

:-)

Just Trying To Keep You Out Of Trouble Z

zevele1 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 27, 2002, 10:11:56 am »

fine ,no problem

Listening to: 'Save My Soul' from 'The Wimple Winch Story' by 'Wimple Winch' on Media Jukebox

cepler · « **Reply #30 on:** July 27, 2002, 12:57:43 pm »

I hate mowing the lawn.

(Just thought you should know, it's about as meaningful as all this "I've got Sennn's or Grado's and I'm super 1337 so give me ape or die!" crud..

Anyhow, back to the lawn...

KingSparta · « **Reply #31 on:** July 27, 2002, 01:00:15 pm »

It Is Raining Here, Lawn To Be Mowed Tomorrow.

I Picked A Peach Today From One of My Peach Trees, Nice

I Am Thinking Of A Drink I Can Make Out Of Them.

scodan · « **Reply #32 on:** July 27, 2002, 01:01:03 pm »

ChrisEpler wrote:
I'm super 1337 so give me ape or die!

Ah, yes, another person who misunderstands what I was saying: NOT that I am "1337" (elite), but rather that APE is true to the original, while MP3 is not. Why, oh WHY, is that so offensive to people?

[someone needs to make another kleenex run]

KingSparta · « **Reply #33 on:** July 27, 2002, 01:03:31 pm »

I Just Love MP3's They Are So Much Fun To Play So Much Better Than A Band Playing Live!

cepler · « **Reply #34 on:** July 27, 2002, 02:01:05 pm »

How do I play an APE file on my Adlib board?

sekim · « **Reply #35 on:** July 27, 2002, 02:15:12 pm »

>>>> rather that APE is true to the original <<<<

Not exactly. There are 29 bits missing.

sekim · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2002, 02:31:18 pm »

>>>> I hate mowing the lawn. <<<<

So do I. Got a break today tho, dark clouds rolled in and shut me down for a bit. Now the sun is shining and I want to rip cds on a new harddrive I got this morning. Guess I do that tonight. sigh....

KingSparta · « **Reply #37 on:** July 27, 2002, 03:45:45 pm »

Are We Done Yet?

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 27, 2002, 06:46:34 pm »

Looks like it. You may close now.
I went to see Austin Powers today. Against my better judgement ... but yesterday was my son's birthday and that's what he wanted to do so I drove the 45 miles to the mall and went. Most of it was REALLY stupid but there were some hilarious parts. A very good part was when Austin Powers out-danced Britney spears and her head exploded.
The parts that were the most foolish were the redo's of the parts that worked from the first (and second) movie. Shadow humor, for example. And Britney assumed the role of Elizabeth Hurley at the beginning of the second movie .. the machine-guns-in-the-breasts trick.
QUICK!! CLOSE IT NOW!!!

scodan · « **Reply #39 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:23:56 pm »

MachineHead wrote:
>>>> rather that APE is true to the original <<<<
Not exactly. There are 29 bits missing.

?? Not sure what you mean, but I know what I mean: MAC is equivalent to the original inasmuch as it is possible to recreate the "original" sound. Saying it's not exactly bitwise is like saying a painting changes when you put it in a different frame.

sekim · « **Reply #40 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:33:03 pm »

Scodan,

Are you done yet? You must have wore a hole in that soapbox by now. People have been using ape for much longer then what you think. We know the benefits and drawbacks. To try and ram your narrow point of view about formats down everyones throat is annoying to say the least.

This thread is to far gone from the original topic to be of much use anymore. The fact still remains that ape, in all its glory, is unlikely to become standard fare for portable players anytime soon.

Shut it down. PLEASE.

scodan · « **Reply #41 on:** July 27, 2002, 08:12:52 pm »

I was just wondering what you meant by "29 bits missing".

You're such a nice guy. Have you ONCE, ANYWHERE in this forum, seen me hurl personal insults? No, you haven't. I've seen you do it multiple times now. And congrats on that post of yours that got deleted. Yeah, I saw it (email notifications, ya'know).

khaos10 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 29, 2002, 12:10:18 pm »

Wow, miss the board for a few days and all hell breaks out.

1. I'm looking for a player like Creative Labs 40GB drive one.

2. APE cuts it down by 33%.

3. Yeah, me is a snob because I choose to spend my money on good stereo equipment. The dripping sound you hear is sarcasm.

4. I'd like said player for when I'm on a 5 hour flight out west and I don't have to keep changing the CDs out of the player. I assume you've guessed I'm willing to pay for quality and convenience.

5. I still prefer APE over MP3 and was asking if anyone knew of any firmware being developed so I can use APE on the large HD players. I didn't expect a pissing contest.

boyddr · « **Reply #43 on:** July 29, 2002, 07:36:50 pm »

Khaos100,

I'm with you. I too have my eye on the Nomad Jukebox 3, but ape is my format of choice as well, and would not get one without such a firmware update. 40Gb would be acceptable for a portable ape player, and I too, would be willing to spend the bucks to get one. So, now that the pissing contests have ended (hopefully), we should open it up again. Do anyone know of any hard drive based portable player (40 GB or so) that are being considered for a firmware update for the ape format?

Matt · « **Reply #44 on:** July 30, 2002, 05:44:22 am »

There's no portable hardware support for APE that I know of -- unless you call a laptop a portable.

I'm hoping to write a PocketPC plugin for APE someday, but not sure if I'll have time or not.

Otherwise, the source for APE is out there for any firmware or software guys to work with.

Take care.

-Matt

Steve · « **Reply #45 on:** July 30, 2002, 06:13:12 am »

A small clarification on Matt's post, there are many Portable Devices (i.e Rio One, Archos, etc) that connect to your PC as removable or fixed drives ( like a laptop) and these would work fine with APE files.

Boyddr and Khaos,

If you are looking for a player with large storage space (>6 Gb)and support for APE, check out Archos. They are relatively inexpensive but the hardware is perhaps not the greatest quality (after taking one apart here). Still, not a bad option for your needs.

Matt · « **Reply #46 on:** July 30, 2002, 06:19:56 am »

Steve, by support I meant "play". Lots of them can probably store APE files, but I'm not aware of any that can play them. If I'm wrong on that, please let me know...

Steve · « **Reply #47 on:** July 30, 2002, 06:28:07 am »

Matt is right. Hold off on buying those Archos (and other portables) for APE support at this time. The files will transfer fine, put will not play which is pretty useless.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Portable APE Format Players? (Read 4590 times)

khaos10

khaos10

zevele1

zevele1

JGourd

phelt

zevele1

zevele1

zevele1

zevele1

zevele1

cepler

cepler

sekim

sekim

sekim

khaos10

boyddr

Steve

Steve