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[GHammer]

How do you see your whole house media network?
Software? Hardware? A combination?
How to control it?

I think the control is key to something like this, especially for the 'normal' user.

[JimH]

How do you see your whole house media network?
Software? Hardware? A combination?
How to control it?

I think the control is key to something like this, especially for the 'normal' user.

You're correct.  Control is key.

Here's an example of control:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534233

Hyslopc is also zoner on our forum.  He's build great support for Russound touch panels.

I'd like to have a really good control solution for touch screen and small touch panels.  Something my wife could navigate easily with her finger.  [no jokes, please]

Our zone support is good for this.  It needs to have synching of zones. 

I saw a demo of a set top box at Motorola last year.  You could pause a movie in the living room, using a remote, go to the bedroom, and resume it.  You could watch the same movie in two locations.  It was simple.

[GHammer]

So, are you thinking that the panels would be alike/same manufacturer? Wired or wireless? Infrared? Do they control or control and display?

I think something akin to SS7 is needed for controlling devices.
But, HDMI 1.4 may offer possibilities too.

Have you seen the 'telephone' that Verizon has now?
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/vzhub/features.jsp

[skeeterfood]

I've just started finishing my basement, so it's almost time to install the whole house audio system before the drywall makes that really difficult.  I'm leaning towards the Nuvo Essentia E6G system because it's got the best looking keypads IMHO.



Like most whole house control systems the controller has a RS232 interface to talk to other systems.  I'd love to see a plugin that allows me to browse my MC audio library from the Nuvo controllers and show metadata for the currently playing song.

-John

[GHammer]

Who makes the AT&T UVerse DVR?
It records 4 programs and allows you to pause in one room and pick up again in another.

[JimH]

I'm trying to understand the possible cases, the architecture of what this might look like.  Here are my notes.  Please fill in the gaps.

Playback:
PC to PC
PC to TV
PC to Device (UPnP, DLNA, Media Extender)
Zones

Storage:
Local
Server

Controls:
Netbook as a remote
Tablet PC, UMD
Wall Panel remote
MS MC remote
Cell phone apps

[skeeterfood]

You missed:

Playback:
PC to Projector (If I ever get the home theater finished)
PC to Whole House Audio Controller (Nuvo, Russound, ...)

Controls:
Whole house audio keypads (Nuvo, Russound, ...)
Another instance of MC
Web browser

-John

[park]

and:

Controls:
iPhone app

[richard.e.morton]

I know iPhone is current king. iPhone is a one hardware manufacturer. As is Palm with the hyped Pre. But Android as a platofrm shows great promise (its a fantastic platform already) and with 20 devices launching this year alone, could also be worth a punt for a controller interface - hey; I'd buy it for $20 for a whole house license.

[jmone]

For me this is the #1 feature add (of those proposed) for MC14 as it gives ubiquitous access to your library from any device / location:

Playback:  I’d suggest a profile based approach where MC14 tries to identify each device and matches it to pre-configured playback profiles (or lets you configure).  This can be an expansion of the existing Media Server / PNP area for each as follows:
PC to PC:  I think we have most options from full 2nd MC installs to MCServer.  For me the issue on this is one of control.  What I’d like is a locked down MC “Client” where the kids (from their laptop) can have access to the Library, Media etc but can still build their own playlists, rating etc.  I don’t want them to be able to change, delete or add anything from the “Master” library or Media collection.
PC to TV:  This is going to be one of two ways, either PC to PC (hence needs features like above) where the target PC acts as the HTPC transmitting the Video/Audio streams to the AV Equipment.  I see on some newer TV’s (and other AV Equipment)  you can now have direct Ethernet connection and these typically use UPnP/DLNA so the requirement from MC’s end will be the same as below.
PC to Device (UPnP, DLNA, Media Extender): We need to have this area of MC completed.  I’ve posted lots of thoughts on this before such as:
Zones:  I’m not a big users of Zones (through I’m sure some are) though I do want to be able to play disparate media in different parts of the house simultaneously.  For me, I’d prefer to use the other options having each device then playback what is selected.

Storage:  I’m not sure we are missing much here (I currently use network shares) and with the other potential changes discussed above even these locations may be further abstracted from the “Clients” that will not know (or care) where the media is stored.

Controls:  For me I’d want each device to have its own control of playback.  So the Kids may be using a Laptop, a PS/3, the HTPC and all can be browsing the library and playing back selected media.  If you want to have a portable interface that controls the master MC14 itself, I’d suggest a Java app that can run on many devices, say something like the following that comes with TVersity (they have such clients working from everything including, IPhones, Blackberry, WinMo, All PC Browsers):


The only thing missing for control then is specialty hardware devices, controls etc.   I don’t know much on this but here is an excerpt on them from http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/home-wiring-construction/whole-house-wiring-basics

Control Systems
In addition to a volume control, which can be mechanical or electrical, each remote location should provide the infrastructure to support infrared remote control or keypad remote control. There are many control solutions from manufacturers including Xantech, Niles , Sonance, Crestron, AMX and others. Some of these are extremely sophisticated and require professional installation and proprietary wiring. Most, however, will work well with simple uninsulated twisted pair wiring (UTP). A great solution is to use CAT5e wiring for the control system.
Composite cables are cable assemblies blending two or more different cable types. One good composite to use for audio distribution is 14/4 & CAT5e composite. This gives you control capability and speaker level audio distribution in one easy-to-pull cable. You can also get 14/4 & Dual Cat5e for more sophisticated systems or in instances where you want to distribute Telco as well as IR and speaker level audio.
Some systems will benefit from the installation of IR targets or IR repeaters. These devices allow you to aim your infrared remote controls at a small IR window built into a cabinet, speaker grill or wall box to relay those commands to the equipment closet. A single CAT5e run is more than sufficient for most contemporary IR management systems. Keep in mind that even if you don't plan on installing keypads or IR control systems right away it is important to include the wiring in your installation. You will not have a chance to remove the drywall and insulation to do it later

[rpalmer68]

There's just a couple of things I'd like to add at all the commenst above;

1) I use a dell axim as my remote control running Netremote talking to Girder, I do this because it gives me one unified handheld interface to control everything, so I can control MC, browse my library, control my zones, control my lights etc all from the one interface using the combination of Theater View and Netremote.  So for me I'd want to be able to  control my Whole Home from one remote/interface  not have to switch interfaces for different systems (MC, lights etc).

2) I'd like be able to have all my MC PCs/Zones in sync when playing back music/video in multiple rooms... for parties etc.

[Alex B]

Currently I use only computers on LAN as source, remote control and player devices. Only the actual output devices are separate (amps/speakers and TV screens). Each physical output location has a nearby computer which provides the output. I have now two of these output locations. I installed my first "PC as a source" setup long before the term HTPC became common, in the late nineties.

Sometimes the control point is the "nearby" computer itself; sometimes it is some other computer like a laptop/mini-notebook.

Naturally all computers can also play stuff on their own without a big hi-fi system and separate TV screen.

What I currently use most of time is a shared library so that the first instance can make changes or just a local copy of the main library. When I want to remotely control a playing PC/MC instance I use UltraVNC.

I have not yet had time to test the "play on the server" mode, but if it has the old playback limitations (DVD, APL & CUE playback, video streaming, subtitle file access and seeking with certain file types) it is not a fully working solution.

Personally I would like to see a mode that would use Windows shares instead of the translated "web style" file addresses. Perhaps some kind of wizard could make the "shared library" system easier to use.

I would like to be able to fully control my library on any PC and be able to freely select the "output PC".

One possible solution could be a separate remotely controllable player component on the output PC. It would not contain any other MC stuff, like database, playlists, etc. Actually it would not need a local UI at all. A remote full MC instance could load the played files to its internal Playing Now list, control playback and set the playback options. The player component would be able to access the played files without any filename translations because all PCs on the LAN can see the same shared filename paths. On the control MC the UI could be a Zone that is set to connect the remote player module instead of playing the files locally.

[JimH]

I have not yet had time to test the "play on the server" mode, but if it has the old playback limitations (DVD, APL & CUE playback, video streaming, subtitle file access and seeking with certain file types) it is not a fully working solution.

It has no limitations that I know about.  The Library Server is just a conduit to MC's playback engine on the server.

I would like to be able to fully control my library on any PC and be able to freely select the "output PC".

In the case of Tremote, the library currently needs to be on the output PC. 

One possible solution could be a separate remotely controllable player component on the output PC. It would not contain any other MC stuff, like database, playlists, etc. Actually it would not need a local UI at all. A remote full MC instance could load the played files to its internal Playing Now list, control playback and set the playback options.

That's what the current implementation does (on the server), but there needs to be an interface of some kind on the client.  We've used another copy of MC for that.

The player component would be able to access the played files without any filename translations because all PCs on the LAN can see the same shared filename paths. On the control MC the UI could be a Zone that is set to connect the remote player module instead of playing the files locally.

Zones are important but we haven't done anything yet.

[Alex B]

To be more specific, I am thinking of literally redirecting the program codes that normally go from the user interface and database to the local player engine to a remotely located player engine.

You would just need to disconnect the local player engine and create a method to access the remote player engine through LAN. The additional LAN traffic would be small because you would transmit and receive simple internal program commands. As I said, the file paths would be correct also on the remote player engine because to use this system the files would need to be on shared locations.

Then the library could be just a standard local library with full features and access rights or if preferred a "shared" library (but not a "Library Server" library).

The Zones feature would not need to be related to this, but it would be a logical place for the "switch" that changes the behavior. Then one zone could control a remote player engine and other zones could work in the standard mode.

[JimH]

To be more specific, I am thinking of literally redirecting the program codes that normally go from the user interface and database to the local player engine to a remotely located player engine.

In the current implementation, I think you're doing that.  You are running a local copy of MC, but it is talking to Library Server on the server PC.  Library Server there passes playback to the playback engine on the server side.

Trying it will tell you more than I can in words.

Then the library could be just a standard local library with full features and access rights or if preferred a "shared" library (but not a "Library Server" library).

Features are full.  Access rights are about to be read / write on the server.

I think your concerns about "Library Server" library go away in this case.

But, again, trying it is the next step.

And .... it is still evolving.

[Alex B]

I just tested the builds 9 and 10. You are correct. The files use local paths (not server adresses) and all media formats appear to be playable and seekable just like local files. The latest build adds support for the Playing Now list so that is also fixed now (the earlier build was not practically usable). However, apparently it is not possible to reorder a created PN list or remove files from it.

Another problem is the lack of the playback settings like audio playback options and DSP. Especially the missing DirectShow video settings can cause problems if you need to change the aspect ratio or select one of the available audio streams or subtitle languages.

A separate remotely controllable plain player engine coud be made to be able get also these settings from the "client" UI. They could be adjustable similarly like the zone specific playback settings are now.

[MrHaugen]

This is what you need for a whole household system imo:

- One to one (normal client)
- One to one (streaming)
- Remote one to one (trimote?)
- One to many (zones)
- Many clients to one (Trimote clients to one server?)
- Many devices to one (Media devices, Cell Phones etc)
- Remote controls to one client
- Server streaming to devices


More details:

- Full control of Zones from one client/server. Working today. At least for audio as I have been testing. I hope video playback is smooth as well.
- Full remote control of a distant HTCP, from another MC client. This have been started on MC14. Looking forward to it
- Full control of the library from the appropriate client (might be much the same as nr. 2), and a way of controlling other zones from this client as well. Much of this can be built on nr. 2 i guess. Just hope that a way to write from all clients will be sorted out and that there is an option to lock down clients for tag changes. Preferably users.
- Playback and possibly Zone control on all remote devices. As Jmone are saying, this could be done with a Java based program to support different sizes of remote devices.
- Remote control support. This is pretty much in good working condition today.
- Streaming capabilities might need some improvements to support more wall mounted control panels etc.


That was all I could think of at least. My head hurts.

[richard.e.morton]

maybe this is closer than I though (look at my previous 2 posts).
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/11/sharps-remote-controlled-led-light-bulbs-generate-7-shades-of-s/

The remote control of lights could be very near for mainstream indeed.